Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

If anecdotal stories are to be believed, it's costs $3k to get a test and the kits aren't even working that great. Is not just those without health insurance, it's the whole country if millions don't get tested because they can't afford it.

Not really a Trump issue. The shocking state of the US Medical coverage has been there for decades
Trump has to take a lot of responsibility for dismissing and for not replacing experts who had been put in place by Obama for the Ebola outbreak.

"In 2014, as the U.S. government scrambled to respond to the Ebola outbreak, President Barack Obama appointed lawyer Ron Klain to lead the effort from the White House, supported by staff from the National Security Council.

Participants recall it as the most intense, most difficult thing the Obama White House ever took on. They said the NSC was the only power center that could harness and coordinate the many federal government agencies implicated, foreign and domestic.

"The Ebola response in the Obama National Security Council was the most frenetic, the most tireless operation that I was a part of, and I was there for the counter-ISIS campaign and the Iran nuclear deal," Ned Price, a former CIA officer and an Obama White House staffer, said.

"A pandemic is inevitable; the remaining question is how severe will it be."
"The NSC is the only place at the fulcrum of foreign policy where you can also pull the levers of domestic policy. ... What we found was that there was a degree of running in circles until the White House National Security Council staff began directing the effort."

In 2018, Trump fired Tom Bossert, whose job as homeland security adviser on the NSC included coordinating the response to global pandemics. Bossert was not replaced. Last year, Rear Adm. Tim Ziemer, the NSC's senior director for global health security and biodefense, left the council and was not replaced. Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC's director for medical and biodefense preparedness, left in May 2018 and was also not replaced."

 
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Trump has been slowly eradicating all forms of scientific thought, literacy and knowledge from every governmental position of power, and replaced it all with religious zealotry and conservative values.

Trump and his supporters have become suspicious of science in general. It's times like this that we realise how dependent we are as a civilisation on medical, mathematical and technological progress. I mean, we depend on that all the time, but it really hits home when we have the potential death of millions of people on our hands.
 
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Trump has to take a lot of responsibility for dismissing and for not replacing experts who had been put in place by Obama for the Ebola outbreak.

"In 2014, as the U.S. government scrambled to respond to the Ebola outbreak, President Barack Obama appointed lawyer Ron Klain to lead the effort from the White House, supported by staff from the National Security Council.

Participants recall it as the most intense, most difficult thing the Obama White House ever took on. They said the NSC was the only power center that could harness and coordinate the many federal government agencies implicated, foreign and domestic.

"The Ebola response in the Obama National Security Council was the most frenetic, the most tireless operation that I was a part of, and I was there for the counter-ISIS campaign and the Iran nuclear deal," Ned Price, a former CIA officer and an Obama White House staffer, said.

"A pandemic is inevitable; the remaining question is how severe will it be."
"The NSC is the only place at the fulcrum of foreign policy where you can also pull the levers of domestic policy. ... What we found was that there was a degree of running in circles until the White House National Security Council staff began directing the effort."

In 2018, Trump fired Tom Bossert, whose job as homeland security adviser on the NSC included coordinating the response to global pandemics. Bossert was not replaced. Last year, Rear Adm. Tim Ziemer, the NSC's senior director for global health security and biodefense, left the council and was not replaced. Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC's director for medical and biodefense preparedness, left in May 2018 and was also not replaced."

So Obama creates a service that is needed "after" an outbreak of ebola happens and Trump disbands that service when at the time was not needed because corona virus 2019 was 2 years away and is in the wrong? Obama should have set up the ebola mob prior to the ebola outbreak by this logic.......a pandemic is inevitable blah blah.
 
Let's not go letting China off the hook here. By accident or design they have brought about a situation that is none of Trump's doing.
L2 i was going to go into this myself, in my reply above. What the heck is wromg with these zealots bagging Trump and the states aboit this. China is the originator of this. Not Trump and a group of scientists put together to fight ebola!
Suspicion has actually been placed at the feet of scientists, Chinese ones. True or not at this stage with an open mind one would not discredit the accusation.
China by and large is a plague of people in its own right. They are the ones who should be held accountable.
 
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So Obama creates a service that is needed "after" an outbreak of ebola happens and Trump disbands that service when at the time was not needed because corona virus 2019 was 2 years away and is in the wrong? Obama should have set up the ebola mob prior to the ebola outbreak by this logic.......a pandemic is inevitable blah blah.
You are obviously not aware of the current Ebola outbreak, it has been ongoing for two years, and before that there was one in 2017, and of course the one I mentioned re Obama which went from 2014 to 2016.
It kills a lot of people.
 
L2 i was going to go into this myself, in my reply above. What the heck is wromg with these zealots bagging Trump and the states aboit this. China is the originator of this. Not Trump and a group of scientists put together to fight ebola!
Suspicion has actually been placed at the feet of scientists, Chinese ones. True or not at this stage with an open mind one would not discredit the accusation.
China by and large is a plague of people in its own right. They are the ones who should be held accountable.

Here's an excerpt for you to read from quite an alarming article, and a link for the whole article if you care to read it.
It obviously didn't alarm Trump too much.

The World Is Not Ready for the Next Pandemic | TIME


May 4, 2017

On a hyperconnected planet rife with hyperinfectious diseases, experts warn we aren't ready to keep America--and the world--safe from the next pandemic
Across China, the virus that could spark the next pandemic is already circulating. It’s a bird flu called H7N9, and true to its name, it mostly infects poultry. Lately, however, it’s started jumping from chickens to humans more readily–bad news, because the virus is a killer. During a recent spike, 88% of people infected got pneumonia, three-quarters ended up in intensive care with severe respiratory problems, and 41% died.

What H7N9 can’t do–yet–is spread easily from person to person, but experts know that could change. The longer the virus spends in humans, the better the chance that it might mutate to become more contagious–and once that happens, it’s only a matter of time before it hops a plane out of China and onto foreign soil, where it could spread through the air like wildfire.

From Ebola in West Africa to Zika in South America to MERS in the Middle East, dangerous outbreaks are on the rise around the world. The number of new diseases per decade has increased nearly fourfold over the past 60 years, and since 1980, the number of outbreaks per year has more than tripled.

Some recent outbreaks registered in the U.S. as no more than a blip in the news, while others, like Ebola, triggered an intense but temporary panic. And while a mutant bug that moves from chickens in China to humans in cities around the world may seem like something out of a Hollywood script, the danger the world faces from H7N9–and countless other pathogens with the potential to cause enormous harm–isn’t science fiction. Rather, it’s the highly plausible nightmare scenario that should be keeping the President up at night.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) ranks H7N9 as the flu strain with the greatest potential to cause a pandemic–an infectious-disease outbreak that goes global. If a more contagious H7N9 were to be anywhere near as deadly as it is now, the death toll could be in the tens of millions.

“We are sitting on something big with H7N9,” says Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota and a co-author of the new book Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs. “Any one of these cases could trigger something big. By then it’d be way too late.”

Too late because even as the scientific and international communities have begun to take the threat of pandemics more seriously, global health experts–including Bill Gates, World Health Organization director Dr. Margaret Chan and former CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden, to name just a few–warn that nowhere near enough is being done to prepare, leaving the U.S. scarily exposed. That’s because the system for responding to infectious disease is broken. So broken that it recently prompted Gates and his wife Melinda to put their weight behind a major public-private initiative called the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI). The Gates Foundation alone will devote $100 million over the next five years to CEPI, which will help speed the development of vaccines against known diseases, like MERS, while also investing in next-generation technologies that can counter future threats.

Since President Donald Trump took office, key government positions remain unfilled, including a new director for the CDC. The budget the President proposed in March would have slashed critical funding at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) by $15.1 billion, including deep cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), which underwrites more infectious-disease research than any other agency in the world. The budget for the State Department and foreign aid–which power vital efforts to stop diseases overseas, where they usually originate–was set to be cut by 28%. Although a bipartisan congressional spending deal reached on April 30 blocked many of those cuts, the signals Trump has sent are worrying. “It’s early days, but if we compare to what we’ve seen in the past, it raises some alarm bells,” says Jeremy Youde, a global health expert at ANU College of Asia and the Pacific.

The consequences of a major pandemic would be world-changing. The 1918 flu pandemic killed 50 million to 100 million people–at the top end, more than the combined total casualties of World Wars I and II–and for a slew of reasons, humans are arguably more vulnerable today than they were 100 years ago. First of all, there are simply more of us. The number of people on the planet has doubled in the past 50 years, which means more humans to get infected and to infect others, especially in densely populated cities. Because people no longer stay in one place–nearly 4 billion trips were taken by air last year–neither do diseases. An infection in all but the most remote corner of the world can make its way to a major city in a day or less.
 
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Warning of nationwide coronavirus clusters (paywalled)
Natasha Robinson
The Australian
March 7, 2020


A doctor who helped spearhead Australia’s fight against HIV/AIDS has warned clusters of coronavirus cases will soon spring up across the country and hundreds of people are likely already infected.

John Dwyer, an emeritus professor of medicine at the University of NSW, said the nation must move from a strategy of containment to a focus on protecting the most vulnerable, including the elderly and those with chronic diseases.

“We are definitely going to have a pandemic in Australia,” Professor Dwyer said. “This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.”

The number of people in Australia with the coronavirus rose to 63 on Friday, with three new cases in NSW.

Nearly 3000 Queenslanders have been told to self-isolate after returning from China and Iran, and a Sydney aged-care facility linked to seven confirmed cases remains in lockdown.

One of the new cases involves an 18-year-old woman, who NSW Health said came into contact with an infected person at home in western Sydney.

Health authorities are preparing to disinfect Epping Boys High School in Sydney’s northwest, which was shut down on Friday after a student tested positive.

The boy’s mother, a healthcare worker at Ryde Hospital where scores of staff are in quarantine, was awaiting a pathology result on Friday night.

Scott Morrison announced the creation of a $1bn coronavirus fighting fund to cover the costs associated with the treatment of victims of the disease.

Under the offer, the commonwealth will provide 50 per cent — or up to $500m — of the extra funds but will make an initial advance payment of $100m that will also cover costs incurred during the health crisis dating back to January 21.

“We are estimating, based on the advice we have at the moment, that this could be as much as about $1bn — $500m each — that we would at least have to be allowing for. I hope it’s not that much. It could be more,” the Prime Minister said.

There have been eight cases of human-to-human transmission of the virus among people in Australia with no travel history, alarming health authorities. Most of these cases are in Sydney’s north, with Epping Boys High School, Ryde Hospital and the Dorothy Henderson Lodge aged-care facility the epicentres of the outbreak.

Professor Dwyer — a foundation member of the National Advisory Committee on AIDS and director of medicine at Sydney’s Prince of Wales Hospital for more than 20 years — said the Sydney cluster indicated the disease was becoming increasingly prevalent.

“The experience with other epidemics is that once this happens, there must be hundreds of people who are infected in Australia at this stage,” Professor Dwyer said. “And for every one infected person, the average is they will infect two and a half others.”

Virologist Ian Mackay said the cases of unknown origin indicated some of those who have the disease had “flown under the radar” and may be unaware they have the illness. “We are entering the next phase of the disease’s spread,” Professor Mackay said.

Doctors and nurses at Canterbury Hospital in Sydney’s inner west were ordered into quarantine after a theatre nurse was diagnosed with coronavirus. The nurse had recently returned from Iran, and epidemiological investigations indicate she worked at the hospital on February 25 while infectious.

NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant said: “That has led us to the identification of 28 staff and three patients who were close contacts.”

The close contacts are now quarantined. A further 15 staff from Canterbury Hospital were identified as casual contacts.

Canterbury is the third Sydney hospital to be hit by the coronavirus. A doctor from Ryde Hospital also contracted the virus, forcing 61 staff and a number of patients into quarantine. A doctor from Liverpool Hospital who attended the same radiology seminar as the Ryde doctor was also infected. More than 20 staff from that hospital and five patients were identified as close contacts of the Liverpool doctor.

At Epping on Friday afternoon, parents gathered to greet their sons returning from camp to the closed boys high school which will be disinfected this weekend. Monica Seto, who was waiting for her son, said she was not concerned about the case at the school.

“Living in the area it seems there has been a lot of cases closer to home,” Ms Seto said. “It’s sort of been inevitable that it’s going to start to spread throughout the community. Obviously it’s very close to home, having a kid at the school, so I’m a little bit concerned but not overly worried. The school has been really on top of it.”

One mother placed a face mask on her son as soon as she met him and said she felt nervous after hearing about the case. In the back of her car, her other two children wore masks as they waited for their brother.
 
Case count excluding China/Diamond Princess (updated 10:30pm)

22,386 cases
446 deaths (1.99%)
614 severe (3%)
18,592 mild (83%)
2,734 recovered (12%)

Italy +778 with +49 dead.

Time to blockade the airport. Sorry Ferrari, Pirelli & co., you're not welcome at the present time. Nobody is.
 
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Let's not go letting China off the hook here. By accident or design they have brought about a situation that is none of Trump's doing.


I'm not. Have had a crack at China previously. Doesn't change my statement.

My biggest question right now is why WHO haven't yet declared this a pandemic?
Economics? Political correctness? All of the above?
They've been pretty ordinary during this human disaster.
 
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I'm not. Have had a crack at China previously. Doesn't change my statement.

Reckon Trump is a very good conventional leader, but this obviously isn't a conventional situation. He'll be heavily dependent on advisors.
My biggest question right now is why WHO haven't yet declared this a pandemic?
Economics? Political correctness? All of the above?
They've been pretty ordinary during this human disaster.

Not sure, don't care any more. It's only semantics at this point and won't change anything we do. Think their role is primarily to make sure poor countries have the best chance of fighting it.
 
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Let's not go letting China off the hook here. By accident or design they have brought about a situation that is none of Trump's doing.
That’s all true although to me China’s actions were incompetent and arrogant not by design.
But Trump is still dangerously stupid.
The two things are mutually exclusive
 
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Not sure, don't care any more. It's only semantics at this point and won't change anything we do. Think their role is primarily to make sure poor countries have the best chance of fighting it.
I agree. What the WHO is doing now is not that relevant to us as a rich country with a strong health system but it’s absolutely not to poor countries that need their resources and expertise.
In the end that’s important to everyone. Building health infrastructure in poor countries is important in the context of a global pandemic and cuts to aid budgets by so many countries (including us) has not helped.
 
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I can understand your frustration in regards to the date roll shortage, FFS don't people know that Australian makes and supplies 70% of the stuff.

The little independent supermarket down the road had plenty of rolls of "who gives a crap" when I was there earlier today.

My local chemist warehouse down the road had some.


Of all places that haven’t been been thought off and it was my Thai wife’s calming voice saying , let’s try there!

They had 2, we took 1 as we bought looked at one another and said leave the other one for someone like us who just wanted 1.
 
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If anecdotal stories are to be believed, it's costs $3k to get a test and the kits aren't even working that great. Is not just those without health insurance, it's the whole country if millions don't get tested because they can't afford it.

Not really a Trump issue. The shocking state of the US Medical coverage has been there for decades

Not only in the US Baloo!

Issues like this in my country (Greece).

$ and you get looked after.
slowly changing though my mum has advised me.
 
I'm not. Have had a crack at China previously. Doesn't change my statement.

My biggest question right now is why WHO haven't yet declared this a pandemic?
Economics? Political correctness? All of the above?
They've been pretty ordinary during this human disaster.

Exactly my point too, TOO!

Why?
Chinese influence?
Chinese $ power.

$$$$$$$$ young TOO $$$$$$$

Better stop.

My wife’s Buddhist beliefs and her calming voice is wearing thin.
 
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Reckon Trump is a very good conventional leader, but this obviously isn't a conventional situation. He'll be heavily dependent on advisors.


Not sure, don't care any more. It's only semantics at this point and won't change anything we do. Think their role is primarily to make sure poor countries have the best chance of fighting it.

If it hits a poor country ill equipped to handle this , then WHO have a lot more on their hands!

More Deaths without a chance for them.
 
Some of what Trump has been claiming with the virus is flatly false, but I can't help to agree that the quoted 3.4% is flawed somewhat.

I saw an interview on the project with 2 passengers (they were a couple probably in their mid 20's) that contracted the virus on the Diamond princess. They said they had no symptoms, were tested as a final precaution as they were due to fly back to Australia and then tested positive despite no symptoms. So they were quarantined. The whole time they had the virus they said they had no symptoms, so my thinking, outside of China, maybe the infection rate is MUCH higher but the mortality rate is also much lower. Its anecdotal I know and we wouldn't know for sure unless HUGE proportions of the public were tested, but if you have no symptoms you aren't likely to go and get tested, you know "just in case".
 
Some of what Trump has been claiming with the virus is flatly false, but I can't help to agree that the quoted 3.4% is flawed somewhat.

I saw an interview on the project with 2 passengers (they were a couple probably in their mid 20's) that contracted the virus on the Diamond princess. They said they had no symptoms, were tested as a final precaution as they were due to fly back to Australia and then tested positive despite no symptoms. So they were quarantined. The whole time they had the virus they said they had no symptoms, so my thinking, outside of China, maybe the infection rate is MUCH higher but the mortality rate is also much lower. Its anecdotal I know and we wouldn't know for sure unless HUGE proportions of the public were tested, but if you have no symptoms you aren't likely to go and get tested, you know "just in case".

Posh maybe being young helps a bit.

In good health,?
Hygience?
Immune systems ?

Really who knows the real truth!

Not the first timeWE have been kept in the dark about issues to do with life/death diseases, so wouldn’t be surprised.

Personally, my views it’s worse than being reported.

My stupid , suspicious mind.