Coronavirus

[Ridley]

Misinformation is a killer. The Chinese threatened to plunge the US into "the mighty sea of coronavirus" and did just that, along with the rest of the world, while WHO sat on its hands.

Explains the abrupt end to the Australian government's references to WHO statements around the time WHO belatedly declared a pandemic, and its attitudinal about-face regarding the seriousness of the situation.

The WHO certainly seems very sycophantic towards the Chinese Govt at the moment.

That they continue to laud the behaviour of the Chinese Govt. throughout this global pandemic is bewildering.

 

[tigerman]

Seventy five publicly listed companies have had not only their snouts in the trough but both feet as well, draining the $350 billion payroll protection program in the US.
A lot of the small businesses which the program was set set up have missed out. Trump says that he will make them pay the money back.

 

[TV Josh]

Excellent presentation of Australian cases and spread, updated daily, using State and territory Health Department supplied statistics. If you're in Victoria, NSW, QLD or WA you can check your local City Council numbers too:

Coronavirus numbers in Australia: how many new cases are there? Covid-19 map, statistics and graph

Is Australia flattening the curve? Look at the graph. We bring together all the Covid-19 confirmed cases, maps, stats and graphs from NSW, Victoria, Queensland, SA, WA, Tasmania, ACT and NT to get a broad picture of the Australian outbreak and track the impact of government response.

www.theguardian.com

 

[MD Jazz]

some people might claim the US are terrorists for importing medical supplies from other countries that may need them.

With a quarter of the worlds cases they need all the help they can get. The rest of the world might need to increase their foreign aid budgets to help the yanks

 

[TV Josh]

With a quarter of the worlds cases they need all the help they can get. The rest of the world might need to increase their foreign aid budgets to help the yanks

Brilliant. The US has the highest GDP in the world, over $19 trillion USD, but other countries need to donate. Trump has probably already thought of this, but his ego wouldn't let him extend the begging bowl.

 

[tommystigers]

I'd be somewhat skeptical about things taken from social media.

This sort of stuff is all over social media as **** taking.

I looked this one up as I am skeptical when it comes to anything posted on social media. It has been cited in numerous newspapers including in Marion Ohio and definitely appears to be legit.

 

[jb03]

Alarming new research on how COVID-19 spreads (paywalled)
Sue Dunlevy
Herald Sun
April 21, 2020

The rule that Australians keep 1.5 metres distant from each other to stop the spread of COVID-19 is under question with new research showing droplets of virus can travel up to 8 metres.
And researchers are warning medical staff are being incorrectly told surgical masks are enough to protect them from infection when the research now suggests a P2 respirator mask is needed.

Researchers from the University NSW and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) examined multiple studies on the distance travelled by respiratory droplets to reach the conclusions.

They found “the available scientific evidence does not support the assumption that contamination from symptomatic patients would only occur within a 1-2m safe distance”.

In 10 studies reviewed by the authors on the distance travelled by droplets from various types of exhalations, eight found that they travelled more than 2m and up to 8m from the person emitting them.

UNSW’s Professor Raina MacIntyre, head of the Biosecurity Program at the Kirby Institute, says that the study has implications for guidelines on social distancing.

“Up until now it has been assumed that the large droplets expelled from exhalations fall to the ground quickly,” she said.

“The guidance we are given for social distancing of 1.5 metres is based on the belief that 1-2 metres is a safe distance to avoid being sprayed by large droplets and that these droplets would be the main emissions containing the virus and able to cause disease,” she said.

“But the body of evidence shows that droplets can be expelled further than 2m. Smaller particles that can’t be seen or felt may remain suspended in a “cloud” and then carried for hours in ambient air, so they can end up travelling much longer distances.”

In the US health experts have been calling on people to wear masks to protect themselves from the virus while Australia’s chief medical officers have advised against this as they try to preserve available personal protective equipment like masks for health workers.

UNSW Engineering’s Professor Con Doolan says the new findings also have implications for the type of masks health professionals are told to wear to protect themselves from the virus.

Thousands of health workers around the world and in Australia have become infected with the virus.

Currently Australian doctors are told flimsy surgical masks are adequate protection for most situations.

“We really don’t know how the droplets interact with surgical masks and until we understand that, then we should be using respirator masks,” Professor Doolan said.

Professor MacIntyre said if the evidence suggests droplets can travel further than 2m, then “the air inside a standard hospital room could be contaminated beyond that distance”.

“Given the high case fatality rate and documented deaths of health workers from COVID-19, the ‘precautionary principle’ and use of a respirator is warranted,” she said.

Professor Lydia Bourouiba, from MIT said there was evidence virus droplets can hang in the air and travel in a gas turbulent cloud making it hard to distinguish between droplet versus airborne transmission.

“This means the virus can have an extended range of contamination in the air compared to the short-range, surface-only contamination assumed from current definitions of the droplet route of transmission,” she said.

“Taken together with evidence of possible persistence of infectiousness of the virus for a few hours in laboratory conditions, the study calls for greater precautions with clear implications for protection of health care workers.”

- - - - -

If I'd known this earlier I certainly wouldn't have queued for 40 minutes to buy computer equipment on Saturday. As it was I nearly turned around and went home after a 50-minute drive before watching for a minute and being satisfied that the 1.5m was being observed. Nobody coughed or sneezed but now it seems I took a needless risk, even if I hadn't left the house in a fortnight apart from late-night walks.

Had wondered about windy days also... windows up in the car from now on!

I wouldn't stress Lee. The research is not definitive and it pretty obvious that 8m away is better than 1.5m just as 20m away is better than 8.0m. Or that 1.5m away is better than 0.1m

 

[Coburgtiger]

A lot of people misunderstanding the basics of our measures to contain/reduce the spread of this disease.

No measure of social distancing, PPE, containment etc is 100% effective. Potentially quarantine comes close, provided it's for an extended period of time.

The 1.5 metres, the advice to wash hands or use hand sanitiser, the number of countries advising the use of masks, none of these things are intended to completely protect you.

"Oh, I can't get sick, I haven't come within 1.5 metres of anyone." Sounds ridiculous.

Every single one of these measures is intended to reduce risk not eliminate it. I've been wondering about the dangers of misinformation versus the dangers of a little good information. There is a danger in the average, relatively well educated, logical person having a little bit of good information. They think, as relatively well educated, logical people who've done their reading, that they are actually across the subtleties of immunology, epidemiology and infectious disease. Then they start trying to move away from advice they're being given, into deducing their own advice.

I've seen examples of people saying things like "We've been advised to wear masks. Provided I wear my mask, I don't need to wash my hands because my mask protects me." Or, "Social distancing means staying 1.5 metres away. I don't stand within 1.5 metres of anyone playing golf, so I can play golf." Or "Exercising is okay. As long as I'm sitting on my bike, I can ride with other people, coughing and spitting into the breeze. It's okay, cause it's exercise." Or "We're allowed to go to supermarkets, so I can just wander around there all day." Or "This disease is spread though droplets and coughing, so I'll just wear the mask over my mouth, it doesn't need to cover my nose."

People need to stop making their own risk assessments. We've been advised to do certain things based on risk assessments already. Not because they will protect everyone all the time, but because they will, on balance, reduce the incidences in which people contract the virus. And those are always compromises between what is best to protect you in terms of infectious disease, and what is required to keep your regular life going. Surgical masks aren't protective? No *smile*, they never have been, but they might slightly reduce your risk if there are no other options. Staying 1.5 metres away from someone doesn't give you some magic forcefield of protection? Of course it doesn't. But you're less likely to get spat on there, than 30 cm away. You're also going to have an overall lower density of people if everyone's intentionally spreading out. Having to be 1.5 metres away from everyone, means that you're going to have way fewer people in an area, and that massively reduces risk of spread through a population even if it doesn't protect and individual.

This is probably the big thing people are missing. These measures aren't in place to protect you. They're to protect us.

Would it be better if we were 8 metres apart? Sure. Could we function that way? Nope. Good luck getting your groceries.

 

[IanG]

On the confusion and rorts surrounding the job keeper system:

Shop owner’s blunt text to employee

The owner of a boutique in a dispute with a worker who asked for the $1500 JobKeeper allowance has defended a text message exchange where she told the employee she was “so blonde” and “you work when I need you”.

www.news.com.au

 

[DavidSSS]

Great post CoburgTiger.

I certainly don't have any training in these fields, although I did do a public health subject in a Masters so know a little.

I really don't get it when people say things like "If I am 1.5 metres away I am safe". Nobody ever said that, it is an extrapolation of the advice (and an incorrect extrapolation at that).

One thing well educated people need to do is to actually listen to the exact words being used. Too many people half listen to the advice and lose the subtlety of the message, good education should teach you not to do that.

DS

 

[TV Josh]

To all those mentally weak people like Tim Smith MP and Sam Newman DipSchitt having a spoilt little opportunistic whinge about not being able to play golf and questioning the science of distancing etc, I say to them, have a look at this video from the US - a New York hospital, where surgeons describe a situation where the public distancing and lock down laws came too little, too late.

 

[Scoop]

Wow. You've obviously never played at Westgate.

Again, no evidence to support your rant, that diatribe shows you've never stepped on a golf course.

Interesting theory. So your club, Westgate, you mentioned, on its own website offers only these two membership

https://www.westgategolfclub.com.au/membership

Normal standard play as much as you want

or

Concession membership _ to be eligible for the Concession Membership you must be over 60 years of age and have been a member of the club for at least 10 years.

But, you said ... there was no need. Sorry Jazzhands bit confused why they’d offer an over 60‘s membership if didn’t make up a fair portion of their membership base? And aren’t over 60’s most at risk?

Hmm, might make sense after all.

 

[MD Jazz]

On the confusion and rorts surrounding the job keeper system:

Shop owner’s blunt text to employee

The owner of a boutique in a dispute with a worker who asked for the $1500 JobKeeper allowance has defended a text message exchange where she told the employee she was “so blonde” and “you work when I need you”.

www.news.com.au

Good spot. Disgusting behaviour by that employee.

 

[MD Jazz]

Interesting theory. So your club, Westgate, you mentioned, on its own website offers only these two membership

https://www.westgategolfclub.com.au/membership

Normal standard play as much as you want

or

Concession membership _ to be eligible for the Concession Membership you must be over 60 years of age and have been a member of the club for at least 10 years.

But, you said ... there was no need. Sorry Jazzhands bit confused why they’d offer an over 60‘s membership if didn’t make up a fair portion of their membership base? And aren’t over 60’s most at risk?

Hmm, might make sense after all.

Please read what I wrote again. You are referring to golf as some sort of privileged game. Go down and have a game at Westgate, not too many bmw's in the car park.

Good to know you can use google though.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Case count (updated 11:30pm)

2,661,504 cases
185,504 deaths (6.97%)
57,968 severe (2%)
1,687,899 mild (63%)
730,133 recovered (27%)

 

[artball]

some people might claim the US are terrorists for importing medical supplies from other countries that may need them.

. This made me think of something that’s a bit off topic but hey ho - in India as recent as the 1990s there were 40-60 pharmaceutical compounds available over the counter that were banned in the ‘west’ because of the ‘side-effects’. It was a dumping ground and it was for decades. Where did most of them come from? The mighty u s of a...

 

[Harry]

Another 30k new infections and 2.3K deaths in the US. No signs of slowing down.

 

[DavidSSS]

Another 30k new infections and 2.3K deaths in the US. No signs of slowing down.

Yep, it certainly is bad there and no signs of improvement.

DS

 

[Tigers of Old]

'What have we got to lose?' - Trump

MSN

www.msn.com

No surprises given Dr Fauci's early dismissal of the drug.
Trump's insistent promotion of an untested drug deserves investigation to see what his motives were.

 

[tommystigers]

Another 30k new infections and 2.3K deaths in the US. No signs of slowing down.

The sad outcome in this is that so many Americans have no clue because they have a President that keeps them, due to a mixture of ineptitude, arrogance, and ignorance, largely uninformed by pretending that it is not that serious.