CC on his last legs?

[Barnzy]

Never really been a fan of Craig Cameron. Sure, he probably does a better job than Greg Miller but there's been some massive mistakes over the past year or so that has hurt the club greatly. From the re-signings of duds like King and Schulz to the massive debacle that was last year's draft. We only took 2 18 year old's (Vickery & Post) in a draft that looks super strong with the top 10 looking like it will rival the 'super draft' and it ran very deep, all the way into the rookie draft in fact. This was even more staggering when everyone knew about the impending GC/WSYD rampage on the draft and the raping it will recieve in years to come. Young talent will be scarse so last year's draft had to be taken advantage of or you would suffer the consequences. Heck, even Freo saw the writing on the wall and cut like there was no tomorrow, picking up a bunch of great kids even right down to their last pick.

The questions have to be asked, why didn't CC see this and take the right path? Possibly, Wally might've wanted some more top ups (which he got) but we only took 2 18 year old's...staggers me. Surely CC must be on his last legs and if he stuffs this draft up I'm sure he will be out the door. In looking back people might say 'hindsight' but I don't buy that argument, if he was doing his job properly then he would've put 2 and 2 together and gone, right.....very strong draft + 2 new impending teams with their draft concessions = have to cut very hard and draft a few more kids than normal. Well, that's what I would've thought anyways. The '08 draft will hurt us for many, many years to come now. For me, it's right up there on the top of the list with other past mistakes, a complete catastrophe.

 

[jb03]

Considering he has the majority of his 5 year contract to run I'd suggest not.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Sack the dud who gave him a 5 year contract in the first place.

 

[TOT70]

Is there anyone at Richmond that you are a fan of?

I seem to recall that last year Richmond drafted Vickery, Post, Andrew Browne and Gilligan. In addition, Trent Cotchin is a similar age to these players and is actually younger than Post. That looks like five teenagers to me. Rance only turned 20 a few days ago by the way.

There is more than one way to get players onto a list, the National draft is one of four instruments that are available to recruiters for advancing their lists. We should look past the simplistic mantra of: "They only used two picks on kids in the National Draft, what a disaster!"

Once the rookie draft is over this year, there will be enough players who are still to be embarassed by their mates at their 21st to please everyone, except maybe those of us who want to see a few wins sometime soon.

By the way, there will be some clubs who will take just 1 or 2 18 year-olds in the National Draft this year.

Teenagers are way over-rated. All they are good at is muck-up day, stirring each other on Facebook all night, butchering the English language by adopting Americanisms like "way over-rated" and cracking the sads when their parents tell them off.

 

[Barnzy]

Is there anyone at Richmond that you are a fan of?

I seem to recall that last year Richmond drafted Vickery, Post, Andrew Browne and Gilligan. In addition, Trent Cotchin is a similar age to these players and is actually younger than Post. That looks like five teenagers to me. Rance only turned 20 a few days ago by the way.

There is more than one way to get players onto a list, the National draft is one of four instruments that are available to recruiters for advancing their lists. We should look past the simplistic mantra of: "They only used two picks on kids in the National Draft, what a disaster!"

Once the rookie draft is over this year, there will be enough players who are still to be embarassed by their mates at their 21st to please everyone, except maybe those of us who want to see a few wins sometime soon.

By the way, there will be some clubs who will take just 1 or 2 18 year-olds in the National Draft this year.

Teenagers are way over-rated. All they are good at is muck-up day, stirring each other on Facebook all night, butchering the English language by adopting Americanisms like "way over-rated" and cracking the sads when their parents tell them off.

So what you're basically saying is you think he did a good job? I can tell you're stretching it when you include Cotchin and Rance in your argument when they weren't even taken in the same draft.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

So what you're basically saying is you think he did a good job? I can tell you're stretching it when you include Cotchin and Rance in your argument when they weren't even taken in the same draft. This draft was nothing short of pathetic.

Forgive me for stating the obvious (It is obvious isn't it?) but TOT was pointing out that we still have plenty of teenagers on our list (counting Cotchin and Rance) and that he doesn't think drafting teenagers in the be-all and end-all that you make it out to be. The inclusion is entirely consistent with his argument and not a "stretch" as you claim.

 

[Barnzy]

Forgive me for stating the obvious (It is obvious isn't it?) but TOT was pointing out that we still have plenty of teenagers on our list (counting Cotchin and Rance) and that he doesn't think drafting teenagers in the be-all and end-all that you make it out to be. The inclusion is entirely consistent with his argument and not a "stretch" as you claim.

I'm talking about the '08 draft not what youngsters we still have on our list. CC's efforts with all the variables that should've been taken into account by anyone good at their job were nothing short of sackable. Now it's left us with extra to delist and pick up this year in a much weaker draft because of his mistakes. Not good enough as far as I'm concerned, such a basic concept was presented in front of him that he failed to comprehend and now it's cost the club in the long-term. People will be crying over this draft for years, only that will slightly save it is our first 2 picks.

 

[Opulentus Tigris]

So what you're basically saying is you think he did a good job? I can tell you're stretching it when you include Cotchin and Rance in your argument when they weren't even taken in the same draft.

If Vickery and Post end up being very very good players, as I hope, CC will be a genius. Time will tell. Until then...Bin thread.

 

[Rosy]

I'm talking about the '08 draft not what youngsters we still have on our list.

What is the '08 draft.  The one done at the end of '07 for '08 or the one done at the end of '08 for '09?  Which players are you referring to and do you think it's worthwhile giving them a bit more chance to develop before writing them off?

Don't get too obsessed with the past to look forward to the future Barnzy. :grouphug

 

[Barnzy]

If Vickery and Post end up being very very good players, as I hope, CC will be a genius. Time will tell. Until then...Bin thread.

This has little to do with Vickery and Post, go over the draft and look at each of the clubs first 2 picks, every club got quality youngsters because it was such a strong draft. After that is what I've got a problem with, we took no more 18 year old's in the ND. With the state of our list we had to utilize a draft that ran very deep and we didn't.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I'm talking about the '08 draft not what youngsters we still have on our list. CC's efforts with all the variables that should've been taken into account by anyone good at their job were nothing short of sackable. Now it's left us with extra to delist and pick up this year in a much weaker draft because of his mistakes. Not good enough as far as I'm concerned, such a basic concept was presented in front of him that he failed to comperehend and now it's cost the club in the long-term. People will be crying over this draft for years, only that will slightly save it is our first 2 picks.

Speaking about a draft in isolation, ie. without regard for the state of the list at that time is pretty pointless, don't you think? Clubs draft based on their current list, so that context needs to be provided in any rational discussion of a particular draft.

 

[U2Tigers]

So after 1 year - all fremantles picks are stars / very good players. ( big big call)

 

[Tigerbob]

Again you lack the ability to see the whole picture Barnzy.

Great post (again) TOT70.

 

[TOT70]

So what you're basically saying is you think he did a good job? I can tell you're stretching it when you include Cotchin and Rance in your argument when they weren't even taken in the same draft.

Are you wanting to discuss something sensibly or do you just want to bag?

You made a point about CC drafting only 2 18 year-olds last year, I pointed out that it was actually 4 and that they already had another. My point is that an 18 year-old is an 18 year-old until he turns 19. When and how he got on the list is irrelevant.

Are you trying to say that not enough National Draft picks were used on 18 year-olds in the 2008 Draft? If you are indeed trying to say that, then that is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that 2 18 year-olds is not very many but that this was corrected somewhat in the rookie draft.

My opinion is also that drafting a motzer of 18 year olds each year is counter-productive because you have to wait five years to find out if they can play or not so you have to balance your recruiting, but that is simply my opinion, which others are welcome to respond to.

It is possible to express an opinion without bagging someone.

 

[Opulentus Tigris]

This has little to do with Vickery and Post, go over the draft and look at each of the clubs first 2 picks, every club got quality youngsters because it was such a strong draft. After that is what I've got a problem with, we took no more 18 year old's in the ND. With the state of our list we had to utilize a draft that ran very deep and we didn't.

I see your point Barnzy, but all is not lost. This years draft has been given some bad press and isn't as weak as everyone is saying. If we draft well this year, it may well mend a few mistakes made in the past. We really must look forward. Lamenting on the past and what could of, should of and would of been, is a waste of time.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

I'm talking about the '08 draft not what youngsters we still have on our list. CC's efforts with all the variables that should've been taken into account by anyone good at their job were nothing short of sackable. Now it's left us with extra to delist and pick up this year in a much weaker draft because of his mistakes. Not good enough as far as I'm concerned, such a basic concept was presented in front of him that he failed to comprehend and now it's cost the club in the long-term. People will be crying over this draft for years, only that will slightly save it is our first 2 picks.

LOL@ near sackable.
You don,t survive in the AFL industry for as long as CC has if he,s not up to it.

 

[Barnzy]

Are you trying to say that not enough National Draft picks were used on 18 year-olds in the 2008 Draft? If you are indeed trying to say that, then that is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that 2 18 year-olds is not very many but that this was corrected somewhat in the rookie draft.

Yes, not enough picks were used in general and not enough 18 year old's were picked up in the ND. Seems you agree with me in part.

My opinion is also that drafting a motzer of 18 year olds each year is counter-productive because you have to wait five years to find out if they can play or not so you have to balance your recruiting, but that s simply my opinion, whch others are welcome to respond to.

So in your opinion we should just keep recycling then like we've done in the past for all those glorious results?

It is possible to express an opinion without bagging someone.

I dunno, ask everyone else. Seems if a give my opinion on here, valid or not, it's bagged or I just get the usual petty insults.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

I see your point Barnzy, but all is not lost. This years draft has been given some bad press and isn't as weak as everyone is saying. If we draft well this year, it may well mend a few mistakes made in the past. We really must look forward. Lamenting on the past and what could of, should of and would of been, is a waste of time.

And watch Barnzy come out at the end of next year and bag these kids we pick up[late picks] this year as duds.

 

[U2Tigers]

And watch Barnzy come out at the end of next year and bag these kids we pick up[late picks] this year as duds.

I agree this will happen, but on Barnzys side hes allowed his opinion, and theres another 100 blokes on this site like that.

 

[Barnzy]

So after 1 year - all fremantles picks are stars / very good players. ( big big call)

See my post above. Has nothing to with that, a lot of their kids picked up have all shown glimpses. I'm more concerned with the fact we only used 3 ND picks and one of them was on an Essendon discard thus only 2 were out of the system 18 year old's. In our situation that's just not enough, especially in that draft. We had to cut and use more, it will take it's toll in the future and hurt us long-term.