Can the Richmond Football Club afford to take John Butcher?

[WesternTiger]

Credit to no one re the delistings so far.

Every single one outta contract so no hard decisions at all.

What Cameron needs to do is show some nuts and move on his mistakes in Schulz and the likes of Pattison and McMahon, Tuck Raines ect for draft picks. Also playing hard ball and offering up a McGuane or Moore for trade would be a sign of a bloke that has a whip hand on the list and is proactive, then he may get some credit, his crap decision making and gaffs with the media have been poor and to be honest from what ive seen so far i dont think hes the best man for the job as far as taking the RFC forward. Was Cameron THE BEST or just the best available.

For a list manager to keep on proven duds in Schulz, Pattison,m King ect is testament to his own inability to do the job properly and is also a reflection of sh!t strategy and myopic or near sighted ill thought out long term plannig as they have the list needing massive attention when the drafts are about to be contrived.

Like ive said ad nauseum Johnston and Pettifer shoulda been shown the door last year and Schulz should have been traded, to free up 3 more places for kids, now the club has to carry duds such as King, Schulz ect for another year at least.

Anyone could and would do that. There aint no merit in giving the ass to blokes without contracts.

Re signing Schulz andf King was nothing but hideous incompetance and now the club will have to pay to get rid of two blokes that are nothing more than millstones, i mean there aint one other club in the comp that would afford possibly 8 years to a dud who has done so little and as undeserving of such gratus such as Schulz its laughable and embarrassing that he is at the club still.

And ferals search for answers why the club is so crap. ............................ the clubs going nowhere while the likes of Schulz, Jackson, White, McGuane, Pattison, Graham and Polos of this world are there.

Shocking list really bad the more we cut the more we see just how bloody poor things are.

Don't disagree with anything here craig. Just saying don't hang him just on those signing.

The decisions being made now are similar to what should have been done at the end of 2004. Lets just hope they continue up until Nov and similar cuts occur in 2010.

 

[craig]

Schulz for 28 was Millers doing so i cut Cameron slack on that.

Its re signing Schulz and King who wouldnt have been targeted by any other clubs that strikes of incompetance.

I wouldnt rule out pointing the finger somewhat at Wallace either in regard to this.

Wallace never rated him as a player and bagged him before he was coach yet Jays still here and Wallet had 4 years to get rid of him.

Miller has sooooooooo much to answer for it aint funny, and Cameron has shown some frightening signs of going down the same path.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Hardwick is supposaby a fan of schulz and wants to play him full-back next year

I don't see it, and would have thought he is ideal trade material because someone out there will think they can turn him around.

FWIW arguably Sarge's best game for the club was his 2008 round 20 performance against the Hardwick coached Hawks where he had 29 touches. Perhaps that left an impression, part of the job of a new coach is to find improvement in mature players who had stagnated under the last coach.

 

[lamb22]

Schulz a Full Back. Fair Dinkum Full backs need pace, urgency second and third efforts and need to be proactive not reactive.

Rance is the one who should be developed at Full Back, he has what is required to make it at FB has urgency, has pace has intencity and second and 3rd efforts has the courage !!!

Jeese whose the deluded feral now. Good luck to young Alex but he needs to improve at a pretty amazing rate - at the moment he is an A grade spud. Gets lost constantly, has the concentration and moves of a mouse on acid -gets outbodied by VFL hacks, cant take a grab and then when he actually gets the ball the trouble starts.....

Has youth, courage, work ethic and athleticism on his side - cant play for jack though!

You might get a half decent player bewteen the two of Schulz and Rance.

 

[GoodOne]

there are worse players than schulz playing FB at AFL level

Who?

 

[GoodOne]

Jeese whose the deluded feral now. Good luck to young Alex but he needs to improve at a pretty amazing rate - at the moment he is an A grade spud. Gets lost constantly, has the concentration and moves of a mouse on acid -gets outbodied by VFL hacks, cant take a grab and then when he actually gets the ball the trouble starts.....

Has youth, courage, work ethic and athleticism on his side - cant play for jack though!

You might get a half decent player bewteen the two of Schulz and Rance.

The guy's played 15 games and is 19yo. You need to cut him some slack. He has potential. I think you are being over-critical at this stage.

 

[IanG]

Credit to no one re the delistings so far.

Every single one outta contract so no hard decisions at all.

What Cameron needs to do is show some nuts and move on his mistakes in Schulz and the likes of Pattison and McMahon, Tuck Raines ect for draft picks. Also playing hard ball and offering up a McGuane or Moore for trade would be a sign of a bloke that has a whip hand on the list and is proactive, then he may get some credit, his crap decision making and gaffs with the media have been

Yet we haven't had a clean out like this before I don't think. Tuck, Raines and Jackson have all been reported to be up for trade. If a trade can't be found it can be argued that the club shouldn't compromise itself financially to pay them out or in terms of player moral.

poor and to be honest from what ive seen so far i dont think hes the best man for the job as far as taking the RFC forward. Was Cameron THE BEST or just the best available.

We went after the best, they wouldn't come, what the *smile* do you expect the club to do

 

[Tango]

Who?

FB for rnd 22

Sylvestor
Tarrant
Gilham
Thornton
Pears
Roe
Merret
Carlile
Thompson.S
-----------------
Frawley
Dawson
Presti

The first 9 are no better talent wise than Schulz and the last 3 are only marginally better in better sides IMO

 

[linuscambridge]

I don't see it, and would have thought he is ideal trade material because someone out there will think they can turn him around.

FWIW arguably Sarge's best game for the club was his 2008 round 20 performance against the Hardwick coached Hawks where he had 29 touches. Perhaps that left an impression, part of the job of a new coach is to find improvement in mature players who had stagnated under the last coach.

This game showed pretty much the only position that Jay can play with any accomplishment. He is not fast enough for full back, he gets lost or off balance when looking for the body in one on one marking contests, and he isn't agile enough to take on the Fevola types.

Having said that, he does some excellent work at the bottom of packs feeding out handballs to outside players, he can take a specky or at worst split the pack and do some damage, and best of all he is probably a better kick on his left than most of the Richmond backline on their preferred side.

That pretty much leaves him playing 2nd or 3rd tall in defence, and I would not be unhappy to see him tried at this position next year. I remember in that Hawthorn match, him hitting a team mate on the chest from 60 meters, kicking around the corner, on his left foot, while being tackled.

If he doesn't get traded and Hardwick can turn him around (yes it would be a miracle) we could do with a few more good kicks on the list.

 

[Mr Magic]

Schulz for 28 was Millers doing so i cut Cameron slack on that.

Its re signing Schulz and King who wouldnt have been targeted by any other clubs that strikes of incompetance.

I wouldnt rule out pointing the finger somewhat at Wallace either in regard to this.

Wallace never rated him as a player and bagged him before he was coach yet Jays still here and Wallet had 4 years to get rid of him.

Miller has sooooooooo much to answer for it aint funny, and Cameron has shown some frightening signs of going down the same path.

Schulz is the 2nd best key defender on our list after Moore.

 

[Giardiasis]

Schulz is a key defender? :headscratch

 

[Tiger74]

Schulz is the 2nd best key defender on our list after Moore.

do you define this based upon capability or outcome?

 

[Barnzy]

Schulz is the 2nd best key defender on our list after Moore.

:rofl

Who did he stop last year when he played in defence? What big jobs did he get and overcome?

You deluded, deluded person. None...he played loose as the 3rd man, Nick Maxwell has shown how easy that is.

 

[GoodOne]

FB for rnd 22

Sylvestor
Tarrant
Gilham
Thornton
Pears
Roe
Merret
Carlile
Thompson.S
-----------------
Frawley
Dawson
Presti

The first 9 are no better talent wise than Schulz and the last 3 are only marginally better in better sides IMO

Wow you learn something everyday.

You're delirious if you think Schulz is better than most of those you just listed. Maybe Silvestor, our has-been rookie. Talent-wise, if we're talking disposal skills, yes Schulz is very good. Unfortunately he is woeful in just about every other asset of the game.

 

[wayne]

Look at it this way.

Hardwick has said that next year isn't about winning or losing.

He puts Schulz at full-back, and along with improved defensive efforts all over the ground, he does an ok job.

He's just lifted his trade value and gets us a second rounder from the Gold Coast.

 

[Tango]

Wow you learn something everyday.

You're delirious if you think Schulz is better than most of those you just listed. Maybe Silvestor, our has-been rookie. Talent-wise, if we're talking disposal skills, yes Schulz is very good. Unfortunately he is woeful in just about every other asset of the game.

i said no better talent wise, that means he has the ability or potential tio be better than those i mentioned
if DH can get jays head out of his arse, get him fit and motivated i think he could be a reliable defender - big ask i know but lets wait and see what DH and Leppa can do... a big bloke with skill and aggression is half way there the rest is in his head and his aptitude

 

[Colonel]

Just wondering guys, am over in the U.k & have been for the last year ( so thankfully haven't seen much of this sh*thouse year but have followed every minute of it thanks to the lovely folks on puntroad!) But apparently the Hawks are willing to offer up pick 9?

Would it be feasible for us to trade pick 19 and Moore to the hawks for pick 9 do you think? Maybe chuck in tuck or swap 3rd round picks as well if need be?

The reason for this is obviously to try and snare a KPP forward with the pick after hopefully snaring a Trengove, Martin or Morabito with 4, my preference is martin but i have nothing to judge this on except highlight clips, whats written on websites and my own personal gut feeling.

From my understanding if we had pick 9 it could be probable we could choose out of Griffiths, Black and Butcher where as pick 19 we would be lucky to get any of these. Butcher sounds like he can play so at pick 9 i personally don't think he would be that bad a pick but was just wondering what peoples thoughts are? Moore won't be around when we are challenging and is really one of the only players we have with any trade value

 

[Rod]

Just wondering guys, am over in the U.k & have been for the last year ( so thankfully haven't seen much of this sh*thouse year but have followed every minute of it thanks to the lovely folks on puntroad!) But apparently the Hawks are willing to offer up pick 9?

Would it be feasible for us to trade pick 19 and Moore to the hawks for pick 9 do you think? Maybe chuck in tuck or swap 3rd round picks as well if need be?

The reason for this is obviously to try and snare a KPP forward with the pick after hopefully snaring a Trengove, Martin or Morabito with 4, my preference is martin but i have nothing to judge this on except highlight clips, whats written on websites and my own personal gut feeling.

From my understanding if we had pick 9 it could be probable we could choose out of Griffiths, Black and Butcher where as pick 19 we would be lucky to get any of these. Butcher sounds like he can play so at pick 9 i personally don't think he would be that bad a pick but was just wondering what peoples thoughts are? Moore won't be around when we are challenging and is really one of the only players we have with any trade value

I like your thinking, but the Hawks have been seduced by Burgoyne and will need need pick 9 at a minimum to get that deal done.

I say seduced because I believe they need backmen more than they need more mids, even though a bit of speed in the middle wouldn't go astray.

I was keen to trade one of Thursfield, Moore, McGuane or Rance to the Hawks as they have been trying unsuccessfully for 3 seasons now to get a Backman. Now that their window is open and Croad is stuffed, I was hoping they'd be pressured to pay us above the odds for one.

PS. I am not that knowledgable as I also want to hang onto Shulz for one more season.... ;D

 

[GoodOne]

i said no better talent wise, that means he has the ability or potential tio be better than those i mentioned
if DH can get jays head out of his arse, get him fit and motivated i think he could be a reliable defender - big ask i know but lets wait and see what DH and Leppa can do... a big bloke with skill and aggression is half way there the rest is in his head and his aptitude

We all know he has talent. He doesn't have the engine or the muscle power or the natural aggression in my opinion. Next year will have played his 8th year. Why cant we just nurture our young key position players like Post and Rance? What's with the focus on trying to make something out of our repetitive failures?

 

[blx]

Schulz has been tried as a defender - FAILED.

He played a great game in defence circa 3 years ago in the final game of the year against the Cats down at the Cattery. After that its a big fat ZERO!

Schulz has been tried as a forward - FAILED.

He had a great game against Brisbane a million years ago but after that its a big fat ZERO!