Callum Coleman-Judas - extricate yourself to Nth Ballarat, you git

[grumpytiger]

Exactly, Zips seems not to be able to comprehend the difference between drafting and list management.

Isn’t character part of the criteria we use when we draft players? We want Richmond men. It looks like 2 of our picks from 2017 will have left the club in not the greatest of circumstances. Even getting fair picks in return (which looks like it won’t happen with North) doesn’t replace the loss of 4 yrs of development and impact on age profile. Both Higgins and CCJ were privately and publicly supported through difficult circumstances that meant their output didn’t reflect the club’s investment. No doubt the circumstances of their departures have set us back.

 

[leon]

To be fair to Norf I'm not sure us going & taking their quality fullback off their hands was in their planning.

It's pretty obvious they have been dealing underhand with Judas or his management a fair way back, probably blind-siding us. Hence our interest in Tarrant was a much more recent reaction to this; following upon Astbury's early retirement which he might have only made definite late; plus Norf's refusal to offer more than a 1 year deal which made him interested in other offers. We saw the need and the opportunity and made a perfectly good offer to a FA. No secret probing or dealing with a contracted player at another club months out which I am almost certain there is evidence of with CCJ.

I find it bad enough putting up with the Norf/AFL lobby such as King/Carey/Hutchinson SEN crew spruiking Norf's valid/entitled position through much of AFL media - for a club that has been kept in existence/in Melbourne by AFL life-support from equalisation subsidies; provided by the big, successful clubs like ours - than having to endure opinions so 'empathetic' to poor old Norf by supposed RFC supporters on PRE. Plenty along with you.

As another earlier poster pointed out, this same wannabe, pissant, nothing-without-financial-handouts club already cost us probably $400-500k more to retain Dusty on his L/T contract. This may be exactly the $$ we could have used now to keep a CCJ.

 

[mrposhman]

Isn’t character part of the criteria we use when we draft players? We want Richmond men. It looks like 2 of our picks from 2017 will have left the club in not the greatest of circumstances. Even getting fair picks in return (which looks like it won’t happen with North) doesn’t replace the loss of 4 yrs of development and impact on age profile. Both Higgins and CCJ were privately and publicly supported through difficult circumstances that meant their output didn’t reflect the club’s investment. No doubt the circumstances of their departures have set us back.

I will forego Higgins. I suspect his brain injury realligned his goals and what drives him somewhat. When the team he supported as a kid came knocking, it was hard for him to say no. Its hard to gauge Higgins as a failure, being as we drafted a player that will go onto play 150-200 games, and immediately made his way into the first team of the team that won the previous years premiership.

CJ I think we looked at his character, he was captain of his junior team etc. It hasn't worked out, but I think ability wise its obvious why we picked him. In hindsight, clearly Taylor looks the better option (and I do remember bullus said this at the time).

 

[leon]

Quite surprised as they are in dire need for another ruck

Plus look like they could be losing Finlayson, Mumford nearly finished. Gotta be interested to say the least.

 

[Macca68]

North's attempt to play tough like the big boys is equal parts annoying and amusing.

But lets be honest, aren't they doing exactly what we would expect our club to do if the boot was on the other foot??

 

[Teckor]

Thought I would try and break down results just using the points system just to see various outcomes.

If we consider the starting offer is correct and North's future 3rd round for Richmond's future 4th. Have to take into account Chol comp (38) + Tarrant too. Assume FA for Tarrant means losing the Chol compo.

North would also want a token pick off Richmond for Tarrant if we want to take him in a trade so as we keep the Chol compensation (pick 38)= so say they have asked for a future 4th round pick which could be around 70 if we do well next year. Seems OK. This pick has no points value.

Richmond want pick 20. North offer what could be a future pick around say 40 -45 thinking they will still be one of the lower teams. Difference of 20 to 25 spots. Richmond probably want picks in this years draft as there is a strategy of bundling up later picks to on trade for better draft positions. Pick 20 specifically may be even important to doing a deal.

North have already said there is a history of similar trades around high 30's. Which means they are willing to trade this years pick 40. Still 20 spots difference between the teams. If North can't make up the difference then Richmond can offer to go mid way and a sweetener of say 26/28 and at that point would North walk a player to the PSD for the sake of say 6 spots in the second round? Also means they can't leave the PSD open in case some other player trade deal falls through.

20 = 912 points. 26 = 729 points. 38 = 446 points. 40 = 429 points. 45 = 347 points.

Best case is: pick 20 + Chol comp 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th (70? with 0 points value) = Tarrant + picks worth 1,341 or equal to pick 11.

Second is: pick 20 + 40 + Chol compo 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th +26 = Tarrant + picks worth 1,077 or equal to pick 16.

Third: pick 40 + Chol comp 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + picks worth 877 or equal to pick 21.

Forth: pick future pick 45 + Chol comp + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + picks worth 812 or equal to pick 23.

Fifth: PSD + Chol comp + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + 38

Worst: PSD + Tarrant - Chol comp (38) = Tarrant

I left out swapping 26/28 on their own for 20.
End result is that I have too much time on my hands

 

[leon]

GWS have salary cap issues. They can't afford him

That will change if Finlayson moves, although I realise a big IF because probably overpaid so no other club liable to take full contract onboard (aside from if he is even rated?), but would enable re-directing significant extra money for CCJ plus confirm Mummy's retirement for further funding.

 

[zippadeee]

Isn’t character part of the criteria we use when we draft players? We want Richmond men. It looks like 2 of our picks from 2017 will have left the club in not the greatest of circumstances. Even getting fair picks in return (which looks like it won’t happen with North) doesn’t replace the loss of 4 yrs of development and impact on age profile. Both Higgins and CCJ were privately and publicly supported through difficult circumstances that meant their output didn’t reflect the club’s investment. No doubt the circumstances of their departures have set us back.

They should be the next generation coming through.
Your right, we supported both during there time at the club and both have backed doored us.
Its not like we are losing pick 55's or 60'. Picks 17 and 20.
Imagine if we drafted Liam Ryan, Oscar Allen, Sam Taylor.
The bloke sitting the interviews needs the ass

 

[leon]

Thought I would try and break down results just using the points system just to see various outcomes.

If we consider the starting offer is correct and North's future 3rd round for Richmond's future 4th. Have to take into account Chol comp (38) + Tarrant too. Assume FA for Tarrant means losing the Chol compo.

North would also want a token pick off Richmond for Tarrant if we want to take him in a trade so as we keep the Chol compensation (pick 38)= so say they have asked for a future 4th round pick which could be around 70 if we do well next year. Seems OK. This pick has no points value.

Richmond want pick 20. North offer what could be a future pick around say 40 -45 thinking they will still be one of the lower teams. Difference of 20 to 25 spots. Richmond probably want picks in this years draft as there is a strategy of bundling up later picks to on trade for better draft positions. Pick 20 specifically may be even important to doing a deal.

North have already said there is a history of similar trades around high 30's. Which means they are willing to trade this years pick 40. Still 20 spots difference between the teams. If North can't make up the difference then Richmond can offer to go mid way and a sweetener of say 26/28 and at that point would North walk a player to the PSD for the sake of say 6 spots in the second round? Also means they can't leave the PSD open in case some other player trade deal falls through.

20 = 912 points. 26 = 729 points. 38 = 446 points. 40 = 429 points. 45 = 347 points.

Best case is: pick 20 + Chol comp 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th (70? with 0 points value) = Tarrant + picks worth 1,341 or equal to pick 11.

Second is: pick 20 + Chol compo 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th +26 = Tarrant + picks worth 1,077 or equal to pick 16.

Third: pick 40 + Chol comp 38 + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + picks worth 877 or equal to pick 21.

Forth: pick future pick 45 + Chol comp + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + picks worth 812 or equal to pick 23.

Fifth: PSD + Chol comp + Tarrant - Lose future 4th = Tarrant + 38

Worst: PSD + Tarrant - Chol comp (38) = Tarrant

I left out swapping 26/28 on their own for 20.
End result is that I have too much time on my hands

Admire your effort and grasp of all these combos, but it's making my brain hurt.

My ultimate position is really simple: Best case as above OR: lolNORF and their media lobby - GAGF.

Plus we will be coming after you on and off the field at every opportunity in future, including any Norf young stars we can pull out, and in endorsing your full transplant into Tassie, along with permanent severance of any further AFL subsidies from other clubs (same for GCS too).

 

[Teckor]

Admire your effort and grasp of all these combos, but it's making my brain hurt.

My ultimate position is really simple: Best case as above OR: lolNORF and their media lobby - GAGF.

Plus we will be coming after you on and off the field at every opportunity in future, including any Norf young stars we can pull out, and in endorsing your full transplant into Tassie, along with permanent severance of any further AFL subsidies from other clubs (same for GCS too).

I did leave out the chicken poo on Arden St doorstep option

 

[eZyT]

Isn’t character part of the criteria we use when we draft players? We want Richmond men. It looks like 2 of our picks from 2017 will have left the club in not the greatest of circumstances. Even getting fair picks in return (which looks like it won’t happen with North) doesn’t replace the loss of 4 yrs of development and impact on age profile. Both Higgins and CCJ were privately and publicly supported through difficult circumstances that meant their output didn’t reflect the club’s investment. No doubt the circumstances of their departures have set us back.

If your being realistic about your jingoism as a club,

you need a 2 tiered system.

The bloods firsts and seconds. The SHinboners firsts and seconds. Richmond Man, first and seconds.

and if your stuck in the 2's, your still a Richmond Man, but we accept you might have to be a bit of a *smile* sometimes

 

[Tigers of Old]

Far as I can tell he's the only RFC player ever who's voluntarily left us the go to the Roos.

 

[King Kong]

Far as I can tell he's the only RFC player ever who's voluntarily left us the go to the Roos.

Highlights what dumb campaigners him and his manager actually are

 

[eZyT]

There's a couple of points relevant to the discussion here that need clarifying I think.

Firstly I suspect the suggestion CCJ and management want to avoid the pre-season draft to protect Richmond's interests is less likely, than them wanting to avoid the risk of training for 6 weeks without a contract.

Secondly, you can only trade a player to another club if they agree to go, so we have no ability to make a deal with another club without his support.

what the risk with training BR? are you uninsured against injury?

when do contracts expire?

 

[Giardiasis]

There's a couple of points relevant to the discussion here that need clarifying I think.

Firstly I suspect the suggestion CCJ and management want to avoid the pre-season draft to protect Richmond's interests is less likely, than them wanting to avoid the risk of training for 6 weeks without a contract.

Secondly, you can only trade a player to another club if they agree to go, so we have no ability to make a deal with another club without his support.

Correct, hence why a deal will be done that neither NM or Richmond are thrilled about but won't break NMs bank and will provide us with something of value.

 

[bob]

How's this from Sydney. Tough stuff. Gee, I wish we are talking somewhat tough (behind closed doors) as well. Although with Pick One, no such risk for North.



Sydney football manager Charlie Gardiner hasn’t ruled out trading talented midfielder Jordan Dawson to Port Adelaide.

Dawson has requested a trade to the Crows in order to return to his native South Australia.

And while the Swans haven’t spoken to the Power yet, if the Crows fail to offer up adequate compensation for the loss of Dawson, then Sydney might open negotiations with Port Adelaide.

“Jordan has nominated Adelaide, which he is entitled to do. Our interest is to secure the right deal for him, so we’d obviously be open to discussions (with Port Adelaide),” Gardiner told AFL Trade Radio.

And as Daniel Cherny reported earlier, the Swans would be willing to take the extreme step of subjecting Dawson to the uncertainty of the pre-season draft, a move which would see Sydney lose him for nothing.

“It is one possible outcome. But our priority is to reach a fair and reasonable outcome for a very high-quality player,” Gardiner said.

“We had a five-year deal in front of him. It was a significant offer.”

 

[tigerman]

Exactly, Zips seems not to be able to comprehend the difference between drafting and list management.

Even after having a serious brain injury Higlets stats are much better. I wonder whether Zips can comprehend that.

Jason Castagna and Jack Higgins AFL Stats Comparison

Jason Castagna and Jack Higgins AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[nikolasmia]

Yeah, an expiring AFL playing contract ends at the end of October when the first list is lodged. That's when you confirm who is staying and going from the previous season plus trades etc....

The preseason draft won't be until late November or early December so in the gap you are in no man's land. You need to train to keep up with what clubs are doing but have to do so on your own and outside of club facilities. If you were to sustain an injury then not only are you responsible for the associated costs etc but it could potentially jeopardise your chance of being signed.

not too sure how much of a problem this really is,

I have a memory of a club declaring who their first pick will be before the PSD and getting AFL to approve them training with aid club, could be wrong though

 

[eZyT]

Yeah, an expiring AFL playing contract ends at the end of October when the first list is lodged. That's when you confirm who is staying and going from the previous season plus trades etc....

The preseason draft won't be until late November or early December so in the gap you are in no man's land. You need to train to keep up with what clubs are doing but have to do so on your own and outside of club facilities. If you were to sustain an injury then not only are you responsible for the associated costs etc but it could potentially jeopardise your chance of being signed.

you'de be running in straight lines, on smooth terrain, if you found yourself in that purgatory wouldnt you?

 

[tigerlove]

A couple of thoughts. Those comparing Nanks trade for 46, you have to remember at the time he was 4th in line for the ruck at the Swans. I believe he only received a 3 year deal on far less money. CCJ had the opportunity next year with good form to take a ruck and/or forward position. Also let's not forget CCJ was in the running to play towards the end of 2020 but decided to fight with kebabs instead. He only had himself to blame that Chol was given the opportunity instead.

As for accepting pick 40 as a trade, considering our selections of 7, 15, 26, 28, 38, 41 and 46, it's virtually worthless to us. May as well let him go in the PSD.

I think it's in the interest of both North and Tigers to get a trade done. Tigers is obvious but if North can make it happen, then their prized first PSD pick can be used on another experienced player.