Callum Coleman-Judas - extricate yourself to Nth Ballarat, you git

[bob]

Ludicrous offer , Dudoro type stuff, this is professional sport, you can’t offer a 2 million 4 year deal to a player then expect to pay a swap of draft picks which realistically could be pick 40 for 50 , fair enough to offer up less then what you intend to pay , but that’s just a *smile* waste of everyones time and energy .

Forgetting CJ was a Tiger , the form he showed this year ,IMHO a pick in the 20s is fair , maybe CJ an 38 for 20 and Tarrant is close to where it ends up . I’ll stand corrected , however the best clubs or men to deal with in recent times have been the most successful sides I.e US, Hawks ,Swans and Cats , professional and not too much bull *smile*

Exactly, that pick swap is cringeworthy.

And agree with Teckor too, Gleeson seems to have good mail. Which is why its an embarrassing deal and was disappointing to read.

Maybe Gleeson meant to say its that swap 3rd to 4th next year Plus pick 40 this year. But even then its still a deal that resembles how you trade for those genuine fringe players on a list.

 

[seven]

It kind of sounds like CCJ has told his management that he's not comfortable with going to the PSD. Would put Richmond in the box set here.

North would have to come to the party some what because CCJ is managed by TLA which have nearly 30% of all AFL players on their books.

My guess his his manger doesn’t want him to walk to the PSD.

 

[Teckor]

My guess his his manger doesn’t want him to walk to the PSD.

Yeah, managers do all the wheeling and dealing with the clubs and if the club agrees to take the player contract on a long term deal then turns around at trade time and won't negotiate to fulfill the agreement then it's not a good look.

 

[daniel30]

Still no word from his manager or himself got the feeling club is dirty on him.

 

[Teckor]

Yeah, managers do all the wheeling and dealing with the clubs and if the club agrees to take the player contract on a long term deal then turns around at trade time and won't negotiate to fulfill the agreement then it's not a good look.

Just to add to this (in the link below) you can see that CCJ is managed by TLA and they manage 28% of the AFL player market.

Callum Coleman-Jones – TLA

tlaworldwide.com

 

[Mr Brightside]

Here's hoping that eventuates. Fair bit of mud being slung at CCJ here but all he has done is accept a better offer which no-one should begrudge.

We should have presented him with more attractive terms in the first place.

I’m generally in the minority here TBR, and in this case I disagree with you and others . Though not the first time a club and player have been in this type of situation, this is where I like to see the player pay back the club for not kicking him to the curb and re show the loyalty and faith shown to him.

I understand it’s the way of the world now, money out ways just about everything, I just dont see or live it that way

 

[bob]

I don't care that he is leaving or whether he takes a 4, 5 or 7 year deal. Nor slung mud.

My only disappointment is that he went to a Club with the ability to not play fair by threatening the PSD.
But thankfully, it appears there is an inclination from him/his Manager to push for a 'fair' deal. Which they should do (and I hope they are telling North this) b/c it is the right thing to do given what happened last year with him and Sydney. We took all the heat and a $100k fine as a Club whilst protecting him and Sydney.

Here's my patronising post.
I wonder how any of us here can genuinely assess whether we didn't present a 'fair' deal to him in the first place. 3 years which is in the public domain I think sounds like a reasonable length of deal. The $ I wonder who will ever know.

 

[123cups]

"North holds the first pick in the pre-season draft but it is unlikely the player or his management is keen to use this avenue to move."

Pick 20.

Offer Pick 20 or we back ourselves to change his mind and North won't be able to bolster their young ruck stocks.

Also, let's not get sucked into the false narrative of meeting them in the middle. North made a gambit claim, while we asked directly for fair value. "Meeting them in the middle" only applies if we're demanding Pick 1.

As for North's reasoning about CJ only playing a handful of games... they're being disingenuous. One, he's 200cm. Two, he was drafted to the #1 team over that time. Three, we chose to select him at every opportunity this season when he wasn't suspended or afflicted by an injury.

Logically, we should be able to negotiate pick 20 from this situation if the club is smart, because when you lay it all out, North's reasoning is simple to rebut, and as a club we're negotiating from a position of confidence and goodwill vs their position of desperation. We should be able to make this happen, or talk him into staying if North refuse to budge. And if we fail on both counts, then the cost is minimal.

 

[Mr Brightside]

I'm generally a one-man minority Mr B.

The way I look at it is the young man has had a rival company come in and offer him more money and more job security, to do exactly the same job, in the same town.

If I was in that position I'd be leaving unless my current employer were to offer me something comparable. I think most people would. For me, the loyalty is in the giving the company a chance to match and maybe accepting a little less to stay.

Here’s the thing TBR , he is contracted to October 31 , do you think he’s earnt what we paid him in this contract ? Don’t forget it starts at -50k and a Tiger family member there job ?

 

[bob]

That's a good point, Bob. My speculation is the money is a big driver but maybe he just doesn't want to spend another year as third in line for a spot as a ruck or forward.

I can sympathise if that is the case as well. At another team he would have played 40 games by now so it's not entirely fair to expect him to delay his career just so we have more depth.



That may be the case but if a deal can't be done they won't have much choice.

I don't want to labour the point b/c I don't enjoy your commentary TBH so I ignore it.

The only point I want to make is you suggested if we didn't want him to leave, "we should have presented him with more attractive terms in the first place".

My point is none of us know if our deal was attractive or not. The public domain says it was 3 years which is pretty fair I think most could agree.

If he wanted to leave for opportunity for games, then there's really no attractive terms you can offer to match that.
No one begrudges him for wanting to play - in fact Dimma said this also on AFL 360.

Personally, I'm not sure many developing 19-21 year old ruckman play many games in their first 2 years - CCJ, like almost all of them, wasn't ready in 2019 and 2020. Of course, then he went and got himself suspended for 10 games or half a season.
So he's a little at fault too for missing at least 10 games of a promising career!

 

[Willo]

Here's hoping that eventuates. Fair bit of mud being slung at CCJ here but all he has done is accept a better offer which no-one should begrudge.

We should have presented him with more attractive terms in the first place.

Maybe he was valued according to the club pay structure.
How do you know what we offered? What were the terms, dollar wise and length of. Were there any other triggers included? Ie contract extension, monetary triggers or others?

Easy for norf just to throw a large contract at him when they have plenty of TPP room. They’ve been offloading players for a while, not too many on decent/big money…apart from Polec and who?
Some young stars in the making they’re probably front loading. Comes with being cellar dwellers. Hard to match when they throw the cash around.

 

[Willo]

I don't want to labour the point b/c I don't enjoy your commentary TBH so I ignore it.

The only point I want to make is you suggested if we didn't want him to leave, "we should have presented him with more attractive terms in the first place".

My point is none of us know if our deal was attractive or not. The public domain says it was 3 years which is pretty fair I think most could agree.

If he wanted to leave for opportunity for games, then there's really no attractive terms you can offer to match that.
No one begrudges him for wanting to play - in fact Dimma said this also on AFL 360.

Personally, I'm not sure many developing 19-21 year old ruckman play many games in their first 2 years - CCJ, like almost all of them, wasn't ready in 2019 and 2020. Of course, then he went and got himself suspended for 10 games or half a season.
So he's a little at fault too for missing at least 10 games of a promising career!

Excellent post Bob.
This isn’t just a “leave for more opportunities“ scenario.
The club has looked after him. Ploughed a fair amount of money and resources into his development and welfare.

 

[bob]

Easy for norf just to throw a large contract at him when they have plenty of TPP room. They’ve been offloading players for a while, not too many on decent/big money…apart from Polec and who?
Some young stars in the making they’re probably front loading. Comes with being cellar dwellers. Hard to match when they throw the cash around.

I think that's a very fair comment Willo.

It's clear - and good on North 100% good on them - that they have cap room to make a good deal. And to attract players, offered 1 year more than our publicly known 3 years.

Which is why I reckon the Tigers are annoyed that they are supposedly not playing fair with the trade.

 

[Dyer'ere]

How much fun would you have if you held Norf's hand in all this, eh?

You've got first pick in the PSD so you can walk anybody you want there and pay zero.

These Richmond beggars are not only spouting about pick 20 for a player Norfs can get for free they are also grovelling for a trade for a Norf champion they are in the process of poaching.

These Richmonds, who have won three of the last five flags see themselves as victims of a system, the very system that kept us, the betrayed and downtrodden Norfs in the gutter for so long.

These Richmond beggars need to be taught a lesson.

So. Coleman-Jones to the PSD and The Traitor is a free agent.

Get a canine near you, RFC.

 

[123cups]

That may be the case but if a deal can't be done they won't have much choice.

Exactly, North won't have a choice. They will need to offer pick 20 or risk missing out on a rare opportunity to access a key, young ruck who can play and wants to play for them. Not to mention the embarrassment and the long wait. Will CJ want to wait that long? Do North really want a player to have more time to consider moving there?

They've promised this young man millions of dollars and a guaranteed place in their long-term plans... but when it comes to action, they're only offering a bag of chips. You can't trust a club promising the world while shovelling *smile* in Tasmania.

If this drags out, CJ will get frustrated with his manager and with North. Conversations will be short. That will be the trigger moment that changes North's mind about Pick 20. When CJ's manager gets pissed and puts the heat on North to deliver. So it's not a matter of us not having a choice. The question is: Will CJ give North a choice? And the answer to that will be no.

CJ won't want the perception of screwing us over. Screwing over the club that helped him will become a narrative that will follow him around for years. It's an ugly look, and it won't go away. That means if we stand our ground, then North's options are Pick 20 or to let CJ and us reassess the situation over a period of time.

We finally have an opportunity to deter other clubs who may see us as a pushover without us seeming unreasonable, making this an opportunity with low cost that's worth digging in our heels for.

 

[Sintiger]

Yet we didnt do this with Yarran

We traded for Yarran in 2015. We didn’t have pick 1 in the PSD, north do

 

[Dyer'ere]

Now there is a schism of loyalty in the AFL when it comes to trading. Who will side with the downtrodden Richmonds against the evil Norfs?

And who will continue to trade harmoniously with the aggressive and unfair Norfs? The Norfs who are not now or recently a threat and who may never be?

No backlash against Norf. They slap RFC and move on.

 

[Sintiger]

That may be the case but if a deal can't be done they won't have much choice.

That’s undoubtedly true but if the report of what they have offered is true, it is not the offer of a club that expects a deal to be done.
That is the offer of a club that doesn’t expect a deal to be done and expects to go to PSD

 

[123cups]

Depends what the root causes behind CJ's decision really are, but would anyone think it's worth playing Jack up the ground next year, much like Richo needed to do for Jack?

Full circle. Jack to give the Brownlow a shake from up the ground!

 

[Mr Brightside]

I don't think we can lump the stuff-up in as a measure of his value as a contracted player.

He stuffed up and paid a high price for it, but I'm sure apart from that one night he acquitted all the duties required of him and more.

I'm equally sure that if we didn't think he was valuable as a player, we would have sacked him.

We disagree