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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Burqa Poll
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
glantone said:
No worries mate. My hobby horse is the ever increasing use of legislation and forcing everyone into a bloated and prohibitively expensive legal system for every dispute. Law should be used sparingly and at the margins. It should not be the main game. The number of lawyers in parliament should be a canary in the coal mine for where democracy is going. (AFL is a good metaphor in terms of the over policing of the rules and ever increasing rule book creating new interpretations and requiring lawyers to be at tribunal hearings).
There was a stat a few years ago (actually probably poetic licence used in that final masterful Pacino speech in The Devil's Adbvocate) that there were more students in law school in the U.S. than were currently practicing (and we tend to follow them). I can't see how that leads to anywhere good for society.
tigertim said:
What a lot of complete rot. Religion is a set of ideas. Ideas are not protected. You can mock them as much as you want.
I actually agree with you. I was playing devils advocate highlighting the conundrum that twists the SJW.KnightersRevenge said:
Pauline wears a burqa: outrage, she's being disrespectful.
Then the indigenous Anthony McDonald Tipingwuti wears a nuns outfit: nothing to see here, he didn't mean anything by it..
As I say it just highlights the hypocrisy of some people imo.
tigertim said:
Feel free to be outraged.
As for Pauline, totally support her wearing a burqa when out and about if that's what she wants to do. Pulling political stunts in the Senate is the problem, not the dress itself.
As for making items of clothing illegal - that's just bizarre.
tigertim said:
I rather hoped that was the case, but I couldn't resist the bait. Have to keep challenging the idea that religion gets to sidestep criticism and ridicule. All ideas should be able to stand or fall on their own merits. Religion is just an older idea that has intertwined itself with politics to protect it and to pervert/usurp power.
A nuns habit should be no more protected than a Viking helmet.
What I'd like to see is next time there is a rally over this, all the anti-muslim protesters wear burqas and all the anti racist protesters (which is strange considering the nature of the religion they are defending :headscratch ) face a wall of people they can't see or identify.
rosy3 said:
It's the intent I have problem with, not the wearing of the garment itself Rosy. Hanson wanted to inflame tensions for political goals. Thats the problem for me.
I have no problem with women wearing whatever they want whenever they want.
antman said:
Agreed Ant but I suspect the pressure from within communities and families even of violence makes the "choice" to wear it not a choice. Also I don't care what your reasons/intents are. Either anyone can wear it or no-one can. Religious garments don't get special privileges in my book.
As I said I have no problem with Hanson wearing it. The smart play for the Senate was to ignore her completely and go about its business. Everything else is hypocrisy and playing to the gallery.
KnightersRevenge said:
Agree on Hanson, she got what she wanted.
On cultural practices, that's a complex topic. And it's not always violence and coercion, it's tradition/religion/family expectation and so on. And it's often the other women who "enforce" these practices.
I know plenty of modern feminist Islamic women who have problems with some of these practices but also affirm their right to be Islamic.
Of course banning anything often leads to an opposite effect and a hardening of attitudes so that's definitely not the way to go IMO.
antman said:
Complexity generated through ignorance in most cases.
Foot binding was a cultural tradition, and I'm sure there would be plenty who would still endorse it.
Hard to argue that the burqa is anything other than a symbol of oppression.
Wow I didn't realize there was a race religion politics section of PRE!
I'd jut like to add 2 points:
1. The abaya (black dress) and burqa (head cover) are actually cultural garments worn by the people of Arabia. They are not religious items and can/are worn by all denominations in the area. Islam does call for women to show modesty and therefore outside of the GCC you're only likely to see Muslims wearing them.
2. My thoughts are I don't think the burqa should be worn in Australia in public. Security reasons alone, and it isn't an anti-islam thing it's like why we don't wear helmets in a bank. As stated it isn't anti-Islam or religious for me. Heck I live in Abu Dhabi and have absolute respect for the locals, their religion and culture. In fact all the local Emirati women I work with wear abayas. Nationally the vast majority don't wear burqas. They tend to wear hijabs, just covering their hair. This is just a thought and I could easily be swayed hearing the other side of this argument.
I'd jut like to add 2 points:
1. The abaya (black dress) and burqa (head cover) are actually cultural garments worn by the people of Arabia. They are not religious items and can/are worn by all denominations in the area. Islam does call for women to show modesty and therefore outside of the GCC you're only likely to see Muslims wearing them.
2. My thoughts are I don't think the burqa should be worn in Australia in public. Security reasons alone, and it isn't an anti-islam thing it's like why we don't wear helmets in a bank. As stated it isn't anti-Islam or religious for me. Heck I live in Abu Dhabi and have absolute respect for the locals, their religion and culture. In fact all the local Emirati women I work with wear abayas. Nationally the vast majority don't wear burqas. They tend to wear hijabs, just covering their hair. This is just a thought and I could easily be swayed hearing the other side of this argument.
sausage_meat69 said:
You've been missing out.
Good post though - many see Islam as monolithic, which its not. There as many ways to be Muslim as any other religion.
On the security aspect though, crims wearing hoodies, caps and sunglasses commit crimes every day. Why don't we ban those?
