Burqa Poll

[KnightersRevenge]

Brodders17 you need to get out more , Burka h as NO place in Australia , we are soft and allow anything goes in this country, thats going down hill faster than , a down hill skier on a snow run .
A Prick would be someone who uses the advantage of wearing this sh!t to take advantage of the situation and blows up a building preferably with me not in it .UNDERSTAND..

Which ankle is your southern cross tattoo on, right or left? I don't think anyone here, Brodders included is a fan of burkas or the people who hide behind religious or cultural ideas to oppress women. But I don't think replacing one shouty bloke who thinks it's okay to tell his wife what she must wear with another shouty bloke telling her what she must not wear is progress. Do you?

I instinctively don't like face coverings. I've worked in banks and petrol stations and people wearing hoodies, helmets or any other coverings should not be allowed enter the premisis. I've locked the doors on motorcyclists and I would do it for a burka today if I still worked there.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Anything that facilitates integration is to be encouraged. Most will not take up the offer however, since the Koran expressly forbids the observance of kufaar customs.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Anything that facilitates integration is to be encouraged. Most will not take up the offer however, since the Koran expressly forbids the observance of kufaar customs.

There is a fine line between "integration" and "assimilation". You want to absorb the 'best' parts from the cultures of your migrants (mostly food I reckon :hihi) while mitigating and hopefully teaching the error of the worst parts. But on the Qur'an it doesn't, so I'm told, mandate the wearing of face coverings. It mentions modesty. That's it. It's just that centuries of male rule have fostered these backwards oppressive views of women's autonomy. Mostly, it must be said, not in the major population centres until recently. We've all seen the movies shot in Cairo or Kabul in the 60's and 70's or the photos from that period and fashion was pretty much western. The rise of Wahhabism thanks largely to the (oil based) power of The Family Saud has leaked into the neighbouring regions.

Outlawing more stuff doesn't seem like a path forward. What is it they say? "The best revenge is to live well". On the very small local scale having Peggy O'Neal as president of what will shortly be the biggest football club in the country is good sign. Having had Julia Gillard as PM, ditto. Bronwyn Bishop as speaker of the house, etc. Strong women, leading the way without any need for 'protection' from men or society. These are the role models (whether you agree with them or not) that together hint at a path forward for young women. You hope that young muslim women see them and notice that their clothing choices are irrelevant.

 

[tigertim]

There is a fine line between "integration" and "assimilation". You want to absorb the 'best' parts from the cultures of your migrants (mostly food I reckon :hihi)

Yes, when you ask people of the benefits of multi culture the only answer seems to be "food".

"There'd be no Lygon st or Sydney rd or Victoria st! We'd only be eating meat pies!"

 

[glantone]

.....Outlawing more stuff doesn't seem like a path forward. What is it they say? "The best revenge is to live well". On the very small local scale having Peggy O'Neal as president of what will shortly be the biggest football club in the country is good sign. Having had Julia Gillard as PM, ditto. Bronwyn Bishop as speaker of the house, etc. Strong women, leading the way without any need for 'protection' from men or society. These are the role models (whether you agree with them or not) that together hint at a path forward for young women. You hope that young muslim women see them and notice that their clothing choices are irrelevant.

Outlawing stuff, Knighter, also protects people, their rights and their quality of life. Racial hatred, sexual discrimination and driving with a belly full of schooners are all outlawed stuff. It's just law. No biggie.

I agree with you about the role models. But expecting women who have lived their entire life in a family unit in which the ultra conservative patriarch utterly rejects everything gender equality stands for, to rise up and mutiny is in a sense a denial of reality and so kind of shirking the issue. In those family units wearing a burka would just be the most visible misogynistic practice (to the outside world) of perhaps many misogynistic practices. Wishing and hoping just doesn’t work.

I understand your reluctance to offend some members of our community but why pander to a clearly misogynist practice which the vast majority of muslim women in the world do not follow?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

There is a fine line between "integration" and "assimilation". You want to absorb the 'best' parts from the cultures of your migrants (mostly food I reckon :hihi) while mitigating and hopefully teaching the error of the worst parts. But on the Qur'an it doesn't, so I'm told, mandate the wearing of face coverings. It mentions modesty. That's it. It's just that centuries of male rule have fostered these backwards oppressive views of women's autonomy. Mostly, it must be said, not in the major population centres until recently. We've all seen the movies shot in Cairo or Kabul in the 60's and 70's or the photos from that period and fashion was pretty much western. The rise of Wahhabism thanks largely to the (oil based) power of The Family Saud has leaked into the neighbouring regions.

To me the burqa is a "*smile* you". It's saying we don't want any part of your culture, we don't want to be contaminated. We don't even want to speak to you and we don't want you to speak to us.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

To me the burqa is a "*smile* you". It's saying we don't want any part of your culture, we don't want to be contaminated. We don't even want to speak to you and we don't want you to speak to us.

That's pretty much how I feel about Jewish ringlet curls and silly hats and southern cross tattoos. They present an outward sign to the rest of the community that they are separate from you. My natural bias is to assume that if you want to be clear of your separation it is because you think less of those you are signalling to. I know that is what I thought when I was a young Catholic. Every one else was lesser, even stupid, because they didn't know the 'truth' I knew. Religion is poison.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Outlawing stuff, Knighter, also protects people, their rights and their quality of life. Racial hatred, sexual discrimination and driving with a belly full of schooners are all outlawed stuff. It's just law. No biggie.

I agree with you about the role models. But expecting women who have lived their entire life in a family unit in which the ultra conservative patriarch utterly rejects everything gender equality stands for, to rise up and mutiny is in a sense a denial of reality and so kind of shirking the issue. In those family units wearing a burka would just be the most visible misogynistic practice (to the outside world) of perhaps many misogynistic practices. Wishing and hoping just doesn’t work.

I understand your reluctance to offend some members of our community but why pander to a clearly misogynist practice which the vast majority of muslim women in the world do not follow?

I agree on the difficulty of breaking away from oppressive misogyny I suppose I wish the women who champion the hijab and less so the burka as statements of womens choice and strength would stop with the crusade. It is young women in western countries who are not in mortal danger and who can choose that worry me. Like the young 'aussie' Iranian girl who spoke up to Christopher Hitchens about freedoms and the Qu'ran.

[youtube=560,315]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjm31Bvomo
[/youtube]

Not sure I understand that last point? Who am I shying away from offending. Pretty sure I've offended nearly everybody on PRE at different stages.

 

[MD Jazz]

That's pretty much how I feel about Jewish ringlet curls and silly hats and southern cross tattoos. They present an outward sign to the rest of the community that they are separate from you. My natural bias is to assume that if you want to be clear of your separation it is because you think less of those you are signalling to. I know that is what I thought when I was a young Catholic. Every one else was lesser, even stupid, because they didn't know the 'truth' I knew. Religion is poison.

Exactly how I feel. Brain washing children from birth. Child abuse.

We protect kids from viewing all sorts of material (movies/tv shows/video games/web sites) via age based ratings, yet happily expose them to make-believe poisonous ideas and a guilt-based lifestyle.

 

[MD Jazz]

I agree on the difficulty of breaking away from oppressive misogyny I suppose I wish the women who champion the hijab and less so the burka as statements of womens choice and strength would stop with the crusade. It is young women in western countries who are not in mortal danger and who can choose that worry me. Like the young 'aussie' Iranian girl who spoke up to Christopher Hitchens about freedoms and the Qu'ran.

[youtube=560,315]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjm31Bvomo
[/youtube]

Not sure I understand that last point? Who am I shying away from offending. Pretty sure I've offended nearly everybody on PRE at different stages.

Wish Hitch was still here.

 

[glantone]

I know what you mean, Knighter, regarding clearly liberated women in western cultures championing the right of Muslim women to live by oppressive misogynist rule. On Q&A the other night a Muslim woman panellist (lives in the US, an author, entrepreneur, confident, successful etc ) when asked about the burka disappointingly launched a defence of the burka by questioning why people are focussing so much on what Muslim women wear. I felt (rightly or wrongly) that she could not bring herself to address the issue honestly because that would reflect the obvious misogynistic nature of ultra conservative Islam. Also disappointingly, another guest panellist – an outspoken English feminist – also avoided addressing the question directly by rerouting the conversation towards violence against women at home. How sad is that? Here’s two women perfectly positioned to promote gender equality but it seems for one religion and for the other political correctness are more important than the very thing they purport to represent.

Have no problem with the hijab as the wearers individuality can shine through.

 

[glantone]

Oh, and my mistake. I mistook your view that ‘outlawing stuff doesn’t seem like a path forward’ as a passive response to an issue which I believe requires action – legislation - which would clearly upset those who endorse wearing the burka.

 

[gutfull]

NO PLACE IN AUSTRALIA......

 

[tigertim]

Saw Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti dressed up as a catholic nun at their Mad Monday. After furore of Pauline being so disrespectful in wearing a burqa I'll sit and wait for the SJW warriors to pillory AMT......

 

[AngryAnt]

Saw Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti dressed up as a catholic nun at their Mad Monday. After furore of Pauline being so disrespectful in wearing a burqa I'll sit and wait for the SJW warriors to pillory AMT......

Did he wear it into the Senate as a dog-whistle political stunt?

 

[tigertim]

Did he wear it into the Senate as a dog-whistle political stunt?

No, does it matter?

 

[AngryAnt]

No, does it matter?

Depends if you think a mad Monday dress-up on the *smile* is the same as a Senator conducting business as an elected representative of the people of Queensland.

 

[tigertim]

Depends if you think a mad Monday dress-up on the p!ss is the same as a Senator conducting business as an elected representative of the people of Queensland.

Right, got it. So there are people and occasions who can dress up in religious garb and mock and those that can't.

I have trouble keeping up with these rules, it's almost they're made up on the run to suit an agenda....

 

[AngryAnt]

Right, got it. So there are people and occasions who can dress up in religious garb and mock and those that can't.

So you are saying that AMTW was making a political point by wearing a Catholic nuns habit? Or vilifying Catholics?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Did he wear it into the Senate as a dog-whistle political stunt?

No doubt it was a stunt by Hanson, but I think she scored with it. It was quite confronting. The burqa is effectively a barrier separating us and them.