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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Burqa Poll
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
antman said:
The transition of banks from public service to retail sales opportunity has changed the nature of the public areas inside banks. But hoodies and hats were absolutely considered a problem and you could be asked to remove them by staff. No need to "legislate" for this. It can be and has been a condition of entry that you can be refused service/entry or asked to leave. Same goes for petrol stations.
On traditional/cultural dress I have no issue so long as it applies to everyone. No religious privilege especially in public places. It is only where it intersects with others rights/freedoms that I take umbrage. If I can't use my public pool, paid for by taxes, on a Tuesday night because that's burkinI night I think I am entitled to ask why?
antman said:
Yes, if that's what it takes to help people escape oppression. We make laws all the time that benefit the majority.
The wearing of the burqa will reduce in time, as will religious belief as more and more women in the east and third world get access to education and information, and eventually choice. And it will be glorious.
MD Jazz said:
If you ban religious clothing you are merely replacing one form of oppression with another.
As a rabid atheist I hope for that day too, but it's a long way off. And middle aged white guys telling Muslim women how and why they are oppressed and what they should wear never goes down well :hihi
KnightersRevenge said:
Right, but we are talking about banning a type of clothing from all public life, not just in banks or petrol stations. Sometimes this is on security grounds - although hoodies etc are much less "secure". Or we want to ban them because it "separates " us and them. That's code for bigotry. Or because it oppresses women - even though if we ask the women wearing them they would say they wear them by free choice.
By the way, most Muslim women don't wear them - only those whose cultural background prescribes it. It's a non-issue for me. I can't even remember the last time I saw one even though I live in the Muslim enclave of Newport.
Banning clothing is absurd. Except maybe skinny jeans on 50 year old guys.
antman said:
I'm not. I don't support using legislation at all let alone to police fashion. Simply pointing out that you can regulate it in those places that people keep bringing up as security risks without creating new legislation.
Fair enough. African immigration to Ireland is common (poor buggers must be freezing. You'd rug up too) as is asylum seeking and this has increased the visibility of Muslims here. Man do they stick out in a very white country! There is a family on my street who sometimes have visits from a female relative who wears a burka. There is another family in my neighbourhood where several of the women wear them. I admit to finding it confronting but I am not "threatened" by it. I just wonder how they can integrate into a community from which their dress seems to be designed to separate them.
MD Jazz said:
I agree with everything in your post.
That a case be made for ‘free’ human beings to be discernible only by sound when in public places of any kind, anywhere nether lone in contemporary Australia and for those souls to always be and ever only be women, never men, seems like a form of oppression to me.
antman said:
hahaha... that's funny, antman! And I totally agree
It does sound absurd doesn't it - Pythonesque even - to ban a piece of clothing ..... but that is only if you look at wearing a burka as a single event. From my pov, and in context wearing the burka is just one symptom of many symptoms of an ultra conservative cultural package which clearly discriminates against women. Those ultra conservative communities in which wearing the burka is common are clearly ‘misogynistic ’ in nature, as Australians understand the definition of the term. They do not advance gender equality. And in Australia we are fighting for gender equality for all women, aren’t we?
If a case for wearing the burka can be made on the grounds of free choice or cultural tradition then doesn't it follow that the same case can be made for other misogynistic practices which may exist in those very same ultra conservative cultures. Arranged marriage, social and travel prohibitions, career prohibitions, legal and medical restrictions subject to male approval or any other rulings drawn up by historical patriarchs could also fall under the free choice/cultural umbrella.
To believe that wearing the burka is just 'clothing' and doesn’t come as part of a broader package of discriminatory and oppressive elements against women is overly optimistic in my view.
I don't think this is just about the burqa. It's about any clothing that covers your face and your identity. We live in a society where face to face contact is essential. We're simply not taught to, and not accustomed to dealing with people who have their faces covered. It's part of our culture. I think it's basic human nature to want to deal with other humans face to face and be suspicious of people who try to hide their identity. But if people from other cultures want to come here to live, then they should respect our cultures and values. We shouldn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate their values which contravene our own established ones or break our laws.
Very disappointed with our pollies who have come out and said they won't introduce laws which restrict religious belief. This effectively puts religions above the law. They can do as they please under the guise of 'religious belief'. Our pollies are being very naive about this. Pauline 'please explain' Hanson has got it right on this one. We are not a religious state and religions can operate under the same laws as everyone else, regardless of whether or not those laws restrict their religious beliefs.
Now I'm off on my quest to find some non halal certified Vegemite. I imagine it'll turn out like Indiana Jones, Tomb Raider or National Treasure.
Very disappointed with our pollies who have come out and said they won't introduce laws which restrict religious belief. This effectively puts religions above the law. They can do as they please under the guise of 'religious belief'. Our pollies are being very naive about this. Pauline 'please explain' Hanson has got it right on this one. We are not a religious state and religions can operate under the same laws as everyone else, regardless of whether or not those laws restrict their religious beliefs.
Now I'm off on my quest to find some non halal certified Vegemite. I imagine it'll turn out like Indiana Jones, Tomb Raider or National Treasure.
