Bachar Houli - بشار حولي,

[tigerlove]

Yes.

There's also a reason why players are chosen to kick in from a behind - because they are good at it, and coaches feel they add value to the team by doing it. They have to make the right decision and execute just like any other disposal.

No argument from me, I think Houli is a great kick out choice, better than Short. Just pointing out that compared to last season, since pretty much every kick out this year is a play on, it adds substantially to the statistics of the player who kicks out the most. That's undoubtedly why Houli this year has had the best average in his career for disposals, rebound 50s, bounces and metres gained. They still had to make the right decisions last year too but weren't attributed with the disposal stat.

 

[AngryAnt]

Makes you wonder why they give the task to Houli.

:hihi :hihi

Can you think of a goal conceded from a kickout this year baa-baa? This might go some way to answering your question

 

[lamb22]

Turnovers Ladder


Rank Games Played Turnovers last game Average


19 Bachar Houli Tigers 7 10 v Essendon, Round 10 5.43



Probably explains why Champion Data rated him under par, 5 more turnovers than his already healthy average.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2019&rt=LA&st=TO

 

[AngryAnt]

Turnovers Ladder


Rank Games Played Turnovers last game Average


19 Bachar Houli Tigers 7 10 v Essendon, Round 10 5.43



Probably explains why Champion Data rated him under par, 5 more turnovers than his already healthy average.

Any goals conceded from kickouts Lamby?

 

[lamb22]

Any goals conceded from kickouts Lamby?

A wise man said this "They have to make the right decision and execute just like any other disposal."

Fair chance one of his kickouts was a turnover seeing he had about 10 and he went 1 in 3.7 turnovers.

BTW we need a new name for the kickout disposal which aint contested or non contested. What about the Houlicopter?

 

[AngryAnt]

A wise man said this "They have to make the right decision and execute just like any other disposal."

Fair chance one of his kickouts was a turnover seeing he had about 10 and he went 1 in 3.7 turnovers.

Fair fat chance you didn't see any turnovers from kick-ins then.

 

[lamb22]

Fair fat chance you didn't see any turnovers from kick-ins then.

I really dont know what your point is. It is an objective fact that Houli is a higher than average turnover man for a player who collects so much uncontested balls and Houlicopters.

One of my beefs with him is his kick ins over many years. Some of his stuff ups from kicking in are legendary including costing us top 4 in the Fremantle Fiasco of 2015.

So again other than pure desperation and misdirection why are you concentrating on individual games rather than observed reality over a statistically significant period of time.

Based on Saturday's game Jason Castagna is our best kick for goal.

 

[AngryAnt]

I really dont know what your point is. It is an objective fact that Houli is a higher than average turnover man for a player who collects so much uncontested balls and Houlicopters.

One of my beefs with him is his kick ins over many years. Some of his stuff ups from kicking in are legendary including costing us top 4 in the Fremantle Fiasco of 2015.

Got anything more recent than 4 years ago? After all we wouldn't want to just unfairly take only one game as a sample would we?

 

[Brodders17]

Turnovers Ladder


Rank Games Played Turnovers last game Average


19 Bachar Houli Tigers 7 10 v Essendon, Round 10 5.43



Probably explains why Champion Data rated him under par, 5 more turnovers than his already healthy average.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2019&rt=LA&st=TO

i am not sure how he has 10 turnovers but 76% disposal efficiency from 37 disposals?

You might want to show these stats to the coaching staff at Richmond, i am sure if they were aware they would not let him take most of the kick ins.

 

[Tenacious]

If I understand it correctly - AFL StatsPro via the AFL website claims to show video of every players possessions or “interactions” in a game.

You’ve got to have the subscription and I don’t but if anyone does it might be worth testing it on Houli’s disposals on Sat

 

[axlefoley]

:hihi :hihi

Can you think of a goal conceded from a kickout this year baa-baa?

:rofl

 

[lamb22]

Got anything more recent than 4 years ago? After all we wouldn't want to just unfairly take only one game as a sample would we?

You know your trolling used to be a lot better.

Maybe it will improve once Ringo arrives.

 

[AngryAnt]

You know your trolling used to be a lot better.

Wasn't it you who said "one game does not a representative sample make?" Leading with your chin there Lamby.

 

[tigerlove]

Bit unfair to look at raw turnovers on their lonesome. It is pretty well known statistically that the more disposals you have the more turnovers you'll generally get. Below is a percentage of turnovers per disposal for the last game, the lower the better. Bachar is well down the list.

Player % D TO
R Garthwaite 57.1 7 4
C Menadue 44.4 9 4
Noah Balta 38.9 18 7
Liam Baker 37.5 24 9
Jason Castagna 37.5 16 6
Brandon Ellis 34.8 23 8
Daniel Rioli 30.8 13 4
Callum C-Jones 30.8 13 4
Shai Bolton 27.3 11 3
Bachar Houli 27.0 37 10
Dustin Martin 25.7 35 9
Nick Vlastuin 22.2 18 4
Dylan Grimes 22.2 9 2
Tom Lynch 20.0 5 1
David Astbury 18.8 16 3
Dion Prestia 16.0 25 4
Josh Caddy 12.5 24 3
Jack Higgins 12.5 16 2
Sydney Stack 12.5 16 2
Nathan Broad 12.5 8 1
Shane Edwards 11.5 26 3
K Mcintosh 8.3 12 1

Stats below indicate the percentage of turnovers per effective disposal. This gives you a better idea of their worth for the game. the lower the better. Again Houli is well down the list. Interestingly all of Garthwaite, Menadue, Castagna had no more effective disposals than turnovers.

Player % ED TO
R Garthwaite 133.3 3 4
C Menadue 133.3 3 4
Jason Castagna 100.0 6 6
Noah Balta 87.5 8 7
Callum C-Jones 80.0 5 4
Liam Baker 64.3 14 9
Brandon Ellis 53.3 15 8
Shai Bolton 50.0 6 3
Tom Lynch 50.0 2 1
Daniel Rioli 44.4 9 4
Dustin Martin 42.9 21 9
Bachar Houli 35.7 28 10
Nick Vlastuin 30.8 13 4
Dylan Grimes 25.0 8 2
Dion Prestia 23.5 17 4
David Astbury 23.1 13 3
Josh Caddy 21.4 14 3
Jack Higgins 16.7 12 2
Shane Edwards 15.0 20 3
Nathan Broad 14.3 7 1
Sydney Stack 12.5 16 2
K Mcintosh 11.1 9 1


Of course there are other things to consider. I always give extra allowance for the inside players who get the contested ball, they will tend to have a few more turnovers. Then there is seriousness of turnover. But I think it's fair to say that the 10 turnovers of Houli don't look so bad when you put it in better context. Also makes Edwards figures look fantastic considering how much inside work he does. The KMac at the bottom of the list had a very clean game.

PS sorry about the formatting, it shows nothing like it does in the editor.

 

[yandb]

No argument from me, I think Houli is a great kick out choice, better than Short. Just pointing out that compared to last season, since pretty much every kick out this year is a play on, it adds substantially to the statistics of the player who kicks out the most. That's undoubtedly why Houli this year has had the best average in his career for disposals, rebound 50s, bounces and metres gained. They still had to make the right decisions last year too but weren't attributed with the disposal stat.

Better than Short???????????????

Short is better a more accurate kick than Houli left or right, that is why Short took over the kick ins from Houli until he was injured.

 

[Dont Argue]

This is getting boring.
Lets rejoice in having a wonderful footballer and individual at our club.
He's an outstanding player and stunned that some still want to debate his alleged weaknesses.
Will forever be remembered as a 2017 Premiership hero. I'll be telling my grand kids about his heroics and how he would have won the Norm Smith should he have slotted that last goal

 

[gutfull]

The best link up player from half back to wing area in the AFL.

 

[tigerlove]

Better than Short???????????????

Short is better a more accurate kick than Houli left or right, that is why Short took over the kick ins from Houli until he was injured.

That he may be but he's not as smart (decision-wise) or as elusive as Houli. I agree last year where playing on was difficult Short was the better option for the kickouts but I think Houli has excelled this year with the extra room to run an extra few metres and then measure passes to team mates. As for Short taking the kick outs until injured, Houli and Short only played together one round this year, that was Round 1. In that game Carlton kicked 5 points, 4 of the kick outs were taken by Vlastuin, not Short or Houli.

It's not a black and white thing. Short has better attributes and Houli has better attributes. With the new rules in place I think it has helped Houli more than Short.

 

[tigerlove]

I can confirm, Houli had 9 kickouts, Edwards 3 and Astbury 1. May have missed one unless Ess kicked a behind on the siren.

 

[AngryAnt]

I can confirm, Houli had 9 kickouts, Edwards 3 and Astbury 1. May have missed one unless Ess kicked a behind on the siren.

No errors either, worst case was 50/50s going long. I think kick-ins are far easier these days what with extra space for playing on and the oppo set further back. There's usually a short option. The only risky move is down the corridor and we didnt need to use that option on Saturday.