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Bachar Houli - بشار حولي,
- Thread starter Baloo
- Start date
GoodOne said:
Keeping your feet has never been more important. Good players rarely go to ground in contests.
Big Cat Lover said:
i think your entire argument is crap because he didnt squib the contest. my take on it was that he knew ballantyne was going to get there the same time as him and seeing the oncoming traffic was hoping to cause a stoppage by neutralising. he was simply beaten to the ball by a quicker player but its safe to say ballantyne was smashed by houli until he went off
Big Cat Lover said:
And how often does Houli fall to the ground compared to other players? And how often does Houli feign efforts? So you're saying Houli isn't a good player? You've been anti Houli from the start and it appears you are keen to find negatives (even if it means slanting the truth) rather than applaud the positives (not that we haven't all been gulity of this at one time or another ;D)
And don't deny it, here is your first post on Houli:
Unfortunately Bacher is McMahon MarkII with less pace but a more robust physique. People saying that we need outside players are correct, but outside players like McMahon, Peake and Houli have nil impact come come finals and big games. The intensity of these games finds them out.
Houli has shown you out thus far, be a man and admit it ;D
LidsBling&Cotch said:
Your take and mine are different. I admitted Houli was very good but reckon he has to work on keeping his feet.
Big Cat Lover said:
i cant recall another time this season when he went to ground and cost our team a goal but if you are basing your assessment on one incident then find better things to do with your life and quit your obvious potting of houli
GoodOne said:
Didn't realise we had played any finals or big games as yet? I'll admit he has been offensively very good and had a positive impact. And not many offensive backman are also super stoppers so a lot to ask. I hope he continues his good form.
Basher went to ground once trying to stop the elusive Ballantyne and its a Federal case.
Surely its time for the hes a dud/delist tag to be placed on him
The positives have far outweighed any negatives in regards to Basher.
Keep up the great work Basher that goal in the 1st on the run from 60 out was a beauty.
Surely its time for the hes a dud/delist tag to be placed on him
The positives have far outweighed any negatives in regards to Basher.
Keep up the great work Basher that goal in the 1st on the run from 60 out was a beauty.
btoz_01 said:Basher went to ground once trying to stop the elusive Ballantyne and its a Federal case.
Surely its time for the hes a dud/delist tag to be placed on him
The positives have far outweighed any negatives in regards to Basher.
Keep up the great work Basher that goal in the 1st on the run from 60 out was a beauty.
It appears no matter how you frame it you cannot criticise a player. I am not the only one to have noted his propensity to go to ground. I reckon it's something he needs to work on.
Despite admitting his good form I'm labelled a houli bacher
GoodOne said:
:clap
Houli of course has weaknesses in his game the same as everyone else in the team.... If guys here have noticed it, regardless of how negative they are presenting it,,, surely the coaching staff have noticed as well and will work with him with it.... He's still a young guy was barely 2 full seasons under his belt....
I have noticed the same thing, where a few times he has gone to ground or not tackled as ferociously as guys like Nahas or King, and for a moment i've thought that that is not good enough for a player.... At the top level I think he needs to improve that area, and will improve that area...
But there is stuff he does better than other guys in our team... There is the well known "release kick", but Houli has one of the best "release handballs" I have seen in quite a while at Richmond... He generally thinks very quick in traffic and either gets a sharp handball to advantage, or can bomb it long out of danger... Is as dangerous as any player in the AFL when he has space running down the wings or through the center....
He's has a solid build, but will admit he's not the toughest guy in the team..... I havn't once seen him shy away from a contest, but in today's game, we are getting to the point of expecting all players to throw themselves into every contest with complete reckless abandonment and disregard for safety... Some guys are just born with that and crash into the AFL the same way from day one...
Some guys instincts don't immediately lend itself to that..
You just hope they work on it, and in the mean time their skills more than make up for that lack of just sacrificing their body at every contest to win the 1%'ers...
At some point, those 1%'ers will be the difference between 5th and 1st spot on the ladder, but all of our guys have stuff to work on...
Houli has been fantastic so far.. That is how I would sum him up.... None of our guys are perfect and all have particular things to work on... Houli's mentioned above.. But I wouldn't even go close to summing this guy up as weak at the contest, or goes to ground way to often, or is lacking in effort... Just has a bit more work to do against that natural survival instinct that it seems players need to completely do away with 100% these days to keep every footy fan (critic) happy...
Big Cat Lover said:
BCL I love Houli and have bumped this thread after a number of games praising him (think I have also given him votes) but I agree with you on this point. Went to ground on a couple of occasions on Sat night.
Elmer said:
Also appears you cannot argue against someone's case without someone saying 'oh we are not allowed to criticise blah blah'. Of course you are, and you're allowed to question the criticism if you feel it's warranted. I just don't feel it's warranted to pick out Houli as having problems staying on his feet more or less than other players purely because of one incident. Or accusing him of feigning contests when clearly its his job to play the outside role where possible. Split second decisions need to be made and sometimes you'll get it wrong.
BCL is 100% correct. Houli basically gives up on a number of contests and many times goes to ground to basically feign effort. I count about half a dozen weak efforts a game. On Saturday he (i) fell over in a marking contest with Ballantyne - Ballantyne mark: (2) soft in a 50/50 chase with Ballantyne - Ballantyne (good play mind you) goal (3) fell over chasing on the half forward line when Richmond had a 2 on 1 on a loose ball - Freo clearance (4) very poor chase on Fyfe to boundary lne - gave away goal side very easily when Fyfe just collected and turned and went past him; (5) slid into a contest which might show effort but basically just went past the ball and Freo cleared (6) Freo got an easy goal at the City end. On replay Houli who was previously in a defensive position outside the pack was just basically invisible when the ball came out to where he was previously covering.
I am sure the coaching staff is aware of it and working on it with Houli. With Bashar it is the type of player he will become. At present he is not good enough to be in a grand final 22. But players develop with experience and success. It must be remembered he's only played just over 30 games. Montagna was pretty ordinary early doors and become a very important contributor for Saints (ordinary bump on Curnow notwthstanding).
Now Bashar's problem could just be a confidence or belief thing. Our own Kel Moore kept falling over early days when his first and second efforts didn't do the job. Sometime he reverts back. I think the player thinks he is trying but he is actually just giving up. I am hopeful that Bashar will develop so as to improve these areas and maximise his offensive running and (sometimes) good kicking - missing easy targets are also a symptom of poor belief or choking.
BTW I thought hs second goal was actually poor play. The play was clearly just the kick to King running into goal. The long shot was a bit selfish and luckily he got the bounce he needed.
I am sure the coaching staff is aware of it and working on it with Houli. With Bashar it is the type of player he will become. At present he is not good enough to be in a grand final 22. But players develop with experience and success. It must be remembered he's only played just over 30 games. Montagna was pretty ordinary early doors and become a very important contributor for Saints (ordinary bump on Curnow notwthstanding).
Now Bashar's problem could just be a confidence or belief thing. Our own Kel Moore kept falling over early days when his first and second efforts didn't do the job. Sometime he reverts back. I think the player thinks he is trying but he is actually just giving up. I am hopeful that Bashar will develop so as to improve these areas and maximise his offensive running and (sometimes) good kicking - missing easy targets are also a symptom of poor belief or choking.
BTW I thought hs second goal was actually poor play. The play was clearly just the kick to King running into goal. The long shot was a bit selfish and luckily he got the bounce he needed.
We're kicking a lot more goals than in the past through tremendous run and carry and much better kicking skills. Bachar is a great reason why.
We're still giving up a lot of easy goals to the opposition through poor contested efforts and simple defensive breakdowns.
Bachar is a great reason why.
We're still giving up a lot of easy goals to the opposition through poor contested efforts and simple defensive breakdowns.
Bachar is a great reason why.
some of lamb's observations are correct but he forgets to mention the improvement in houli's hard running. he's getting to many more contests and is getting free on more occassions. he's timimg his runs well also, usually taking note of our upfield play and taking off to link up and provide another option. he needs the ball in his hands uncontested rather than contested, as he's an elite kick. like nahas, it's the hard running to and from contests that will make or break his carreer, not whether he goes in hard.
GoodOne said:
I didn't say I could only find negatives Goody. I said that he puts in about 5 -6 disappointing efforts minimum each week.
If you read my post, it actually was understanding of where Houli is at this point of his career and where the coaches think he may end up. I'd be disappointed if he still played the same way in 18 months time.
Interestingly he got one vote in the coaches award - Dont know if it was Harvey who thought he did a good job on Ballantyne and then ran off to provide run and goals or Hardwick.
