Atheism

[Freezer]

Hi Freezer, I know how you feel.

Church in and of itself cannot satisfy the Human soul but God can if we look to him through his son Jesus. Now all the naysayers here will dispute this, but when I was 23 I had a dramatic spiritual encounter with Jesus and it totally transformed the meaning of my life. Welcome to this section and as the bible says seek and you shall find.

Cheers TT2. Unfortunately I didn't need to seek, it was thrust upon me and as I matured, I questioned much of it. I've been to the depths of Christianity (figuratively speaking) and it no longer cuts it. Although I think my feelings here are towards religion as a whole, rather than Catholicism specifically.

The morals/ethics/guidelines it professes can be found without it.

 

[Djevv]

No conspiracy theory, just the work of scholars who argue that many parts of the Bible were not written by the acknowledged authors. You've just yourself given a incredibly convoluted argument why we should disregard independent evidence of authorship even though you speak of "redacted" texts and the like.

Did you read what I posted? I gave a few possible reasons for stylistic differences within books, hardly a convoluted argument. Higher criticism does amount to a conspiracy theory. You are asked to believe a bunch of writers fraudulently pieced together a document which Orthodox Jews REVERE as the true history of their nation and religon.

Occam's razor? On one hand a work inspired by God with a small number of authors whose identities are beyond doubt (read "not to be questioned") or a historical work that existed in its own time and has many authors over the centuries with their own theological agendas.
Even leaving aside the "God" question, Occam's Razor comes down well on my side of the ledger old son.

46 separate authors over 200 years is a fair number - this is the 'traditional' belief. Goodness knows how many if the higher critics are right.

Occams razor means if there are two hypothesis of equal explanatory power, the simpler is to be accepted. I think my explanation of the stylistic differences is simpler than the higher critics.

Again, your appeal "not to question" casts grave doubts on your appeals to science for evidence supporting Biblical events. As I've said many times, Christians only appeal to science and scholarship when it suits them (which is not often).

You can't have it both ways - either you believe in science and the eternal questioning of knowledge, including established scientific knowledge, or you are a Christian, prepared to believe only what a bunch of guys in the Holy Lands wrote around 1700-2000 years ago.

What are you talking about? Was this in my post? My point about the texts in other postings on this topic is that to disbelieve that the authors are who they say they are (eg Isaiah, or the pentateuch) means you think they are lying. Why? Is there an agenda here on the part of the critics?

BTW in case you are unaware my science background is pretty strong - so I accept the findings and philosophy of science, but I reserve the right to skeptism.

 

[Tiger74]

so what is at the ned of the path?

Not sure, I'm the guy outside Broady on his way up the Hume to Sydney, and you are asking me to describe Circular Quay. I'm only at the beginning of the journey, and I'm not even sure if this is the right road for me.

 

[Six Pack]

Who is this Ned we speak of?

 

[Freezer]

Who is this Ned we speak of?

Ned Nederlander - he was one of the Three Amigos.

 

[the claw]

has the theory of evolution v the creation /bible theory come to the fore on this thread yet.

i ask this because i had a builder mate often espouse the bible based on the theory that evolution cant be right. he could never grasp the fact that i thought the bible a load of codswallop but agreed that perhaps the world was indeed created by some all powerful being. for him god and the bible were indelibly linked.

 

[Six Pack]

has the theory of evolution v the creation /bible theory come to the fore on this thread yet.

i ask this because i had a builder mate often espouse the bible based on the theory that evolution cant be right. he could never grasp the fact that i thought the bible a load of codswallop but agreed that perhaps the world was indeed created by some all powerful being. for him god and the bible were indelibly linked.

clawsy u need to read the thread so to catch uo with us

 

[the claw]

clawsy u need to read the thread so to catch uo with us

sheesh that will take forever you guys have been going at this for 118 pages.

 

[Six Pack]

plus the christian one; that is a lot of our earlier work! :angel:

 

[tigertime2]

Not sure, I'm the guy outside Broady on his way up the Hume to Sydney, and you are asking me to describe Circular Quay. I'm only at the beginning of the journey, and I'm not even sure if this is the right road for me.

That's why I belive what I do, at least I know where I am going and what the outcome is.

 

[Six Pack]

That's why I belive what I do, at least I know where I am going and what the outcome is.

how do u know where u are going and what the outcome is? thats a bit presumptuous.

 

[tigertime2]

has the theory of evolution v the creation /bible theory come to the fore on this thread yet.

i ask this because i had a builder mate often espouse the bible based on the theory that evolution cant be right. he could never grasp the fact that i thought the bible a load of codswallop but agreed that perhaps the world was indeed created by some all powerful being. for him god and the bible were indelibly linked.

I understand your views, I disagree with them but I do understand where you are coming from

 

[the claw]

plus the christian one; that is a lot of our earlier work! :angel:

bugger of if you think im going thru that one from start to finish you are mistaken. anyway bloody christians i blame the romans should of fed the lot of em to the lions.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I was 23 not even looking for God.

Thanks TT2.
Without wanting to pry too much..how did 'it' happen for you?
No need to answer if it's too personal, just say so.

 

[tigertime2]

bugger of if you think im going thru that one from start to finish you are mistaken. anyway bloody christians i blame the romans should of fed the lot of em to the lions.

Now Claw, we are not Carlton supporters! have some compassion on your fellow tiger supports ;D

 

[Tiger74]

That's why I belive what I do, at least I know where I am going and what the outcome is.

You don't though.

I am going to give you faith, and lets assume everything you believe is 100% right. You have one life to live, and any mortal sin you don't repent during that time you are damned.

My life today is nothing like what I expected it to be 15 years ago. Are you absolutely confident that you can live your sin free life for the duration of your life to get the gold pass? I cannot say what I will, won't, or might do in this journey. Thats the point though, its a journey. If the answers were easy, this wouldn't be one of the greatest questions man has asked himself. The answers are hard, because for the most part they cannot be proven, justified, or evidenced.

 

[jayfox]

If you need absolute scientific proof that God exists then I reckon that you are fishing in the wrong waters and will never get it. Christianity is about faith. A faith that there is a reason for this existence, a faith that there is actually someone in control of this out-of-control world, a faith that there is a hope for the future and after we die. Christianity is about releasing our total control on things, acknowledging that there is a higher power, and giving up our selfish lives to allow Him to lead us into the lives that He has planned for us. Some people will just never be able to do this, out of pride, love for sinful pleasures, love of their own lives or even through simply not caring enough to give it the research and respect it deserves.

 

[jayfox]

You don't though.

I am going to give you faith, and lets assume everything you believe is 100% right. You have one life to live, and any mortal sin you don't repent during that time you are damned.

My life today is nothing like what I expected it to be 15 years ago. Are you absolutely confident that you can live your sin free life for the duration of your life to get the gold pass? I cannot say what I will, won't, or might do in this journey. Thats the point though, its a journey. If the answers were easy, this wouldn't be one of the greatest questions man has asked himself. The answers are hard, because for the most part they cannot be proven, justified, or evidenced.

Being a Christian is acknowledging that you can't and haven't lived a sin free life and that you do not deserve to go to Heaven. It is only by God's grace through His Son Jesus dying on the cross that we are given another chance to go there. I actually think it's quite funny that most of the non-Christians think that they deserve to go to heaven (assuming for a second that there is one) but then the Christians all freely acknowledge that we have fallen short of God's glory and don't deserve to go to Heaven!

There are no amount of good works that can get us into Heaven. And there always has to be a price paid for sin. You just need to decide whether Jesus has paid that price for you already or whether you want to pay for it yourself.

 

[Tiger74]

I actually think it's quite funny that most of the non-Christians think that they deserve to go to heaven (assuming for a second that there is one) but then the Christians all freely acknowledge that we have fallen short of God's glory and don't deserve to go to Heaven!

Sadly I disagree with this. In my personal experience, the number of times I have been told I'm doomed to the fires of Hell, while they will be guaranteed salvation because of their love of Christ.....

Stupid bit is, you are right. If you go by all the bits and pieces of the Bible, you cannot argue much with your logic. Problem is most Christians don't want to hear that, so they think its their Golden Ticket for the afterlife.

BTW this is not just a Christian thing. People tend to have blind spots left right and centre on their faiths (idiot suicide bombers, the Thai money monks, etc...).

 

[evo]

sheesh a bloke needs to come over to the general section more often.
not a bad thread havent read from go to whoa but personally im neither a believer or non believer.if that makes sense.
im what you may call a theist someone who believes theres a god but does not believe in religion.
do we need a separate thread for us common sense types.

Yeah. You can call it 'soft'