Atheism

[AngryAnt]

No we don't. Define 'know'. I also agree that you can 'know' God but that doesn;t mean that you will 'know' every single thing about Him. I can know you but not know all aspects about you including what goes on in your mind, for example.

I'd focus on what goes on in your own mind first as your posts here indicate profound confusion

 

[jayfox]

well it is simple if you constantly contradict yourself.God is not knowable--but I know him!!!

Unfortunately if one isn't even willing to follow the most basic rule of non contradiction and identity, as old as Aristotle himself, then that person is likely to spout any sort of nonsense at the drop of a hat

And ussually does.

Can I 'know' you without knowing every single thing about you, including your thoughts?

 

[jayfox]

I'd focus on what goes on in your own mind first as your posts here indicate profound confusion

Then I clearly do not articulate myself well as there is nothing that I am surer of in the world than that the God of the Bible exists.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Then I clearly do not articulate myself well as there is nothing that I am surer of in the world than that the God of the Bible exists.

Have you seen God with your own eyes?

 

[jayfox]

Have you seen God with your own eyes?

No, but I don't need to to believe in Him. I haven't seen the wind either. I've seen the affects of the wind but I've never seen the wind. The same applies to God.

 

[Djevv]

Does that mean God has a religion? If so, what is it? Does he worship himself? Or does he have a God that he reports to and so on, ad infinitum?

God created man in His own Image apparently. Where did that "image" come from? Why does God have our reproductive organs then? Why would he need them if he is God? Does he have both male and female genitalia?

What about neanderthal man? Were they people with souls, made in God's image? If so, why is their image different from that of contemporary humans? Is God black or white or Asian in appearance? All at once? If so, why?

I guess you didn't think much of the way I worded that then!

 

[Tigers of Old]

No, but I don't need to to believe in Him. I haven't seen the wind either. I've seen the affects of the wind but I've never seen the wind. The same applies to God.

Have you felt the wind through your hair? On your skin?
There is evidence of the wind.

The only evidence of God is through word.

 

[Djevv]

No we don't. Define 'know'. I also agree that you can 'know' God but that doesn;t mean that you will 'know' every single thing about Him. I can know you but not know all aspects about you including what goes on in your mind, for example.

When I said knowable I meant as a person. Well said Jay!

 

[jayfox]

Have you felt the wind through your hair? On your skin?
There is evidence of the wind.

The only evidence of God is through word.

That totally discounts personal experiences. And have I felt the wind through my hair or on my skin? Yes of course, but I have equally felt God's presence many, many times as well.

 

[Djevv]

Ok,lets do a bit of philosophy then:

If God is knowable (IYO), then ontologically we have to put him/it in the category of 'things/objects '/'entities ' ....otherwise it can't be 'known'

Things/entities rely on other things by which to contrast them. For example you can recognize the keyboard in front of you because it ....(isn't the desk it's sitting on,and it isn't the air surrounding it etc) This is expressed in the philosophical axiom and the basic foundation of all thinking A=A otherwise expressed as A=not(-A) .....(the law of identity)

But your contention is that God created everything.He was the first 'thing'. The uncaused caused.He was 'before' other things.

As you might be starting to see(but i doubt it),philosphically speaking, that position is untenable.It doesn't conform to the most basic tennet of human thinking A=A.


In short it is nonsense.

Or what you are saying is nonsense. I know which my money is on...................

 

[Tigers of Old]

That totally discounts personal experiences. And have I felt the wind through my hair or on my skin? Yes of course, but I have equally felt God's presence many, many times as well.

In your mind given your exposure to those that have preached the word but many people don't 'feel' God.
However everyone feels the wind.

I have been to church, I have listened to the word but I felt nothing and saw no evidence other than what people were telling me.
Therefor to me God doesn't exist.

To me it seems the only difference between us is that you are prepared to believe what others tell you and I am sceptical without physically seeing it/ feeling it for myself.

 

[Six Pack]

yr all overintellectualising it again.

nothing, born, live, die, nothing

 

[evo]

Or what you are saying is nonsense. I know which my money is on...................

As I expected you aren't actually interested in philosophy at all.Only special pleading.

 

[jayfox]

In your mind given your exposure to those that have preached the word but many people don't 'feel' God.
However everyone feels the wind.

I have been to church, I have listened to the word but I felt nothing and saw no evidence other than what people were telling me.
Therefor to me God doesn't exist.

And that is your right to feel that way. The thing that I don;t understand is why people would spend hundreds of pages trying to show/convince Christians that God does not exist. Christians try to tell people about God to try to save them, allow them to experience the wonderful feeling of knowing God, enable them to know how to get to heaven and help them avoid going to Hell. Why would an atheist try to convince a Christian that he has it wrong? For personal pride?

 

[Djevv]

yr all overintellectualising it again.

nothing, born, live, die, nothing

Well I agree with the first part anyway! Sheesh this thread gets hysterical sometimes. :hihi

Panther wants me to publish a treatise on the predictions that a creator God makes about the universe.

Evo wants to know what I know about God. He knows that what I know is unknowable. I think ???

Ant is trying to split the Church. Get the behind me Satan!! > :hihi

Fortunately for all of us sixys faith remains rock like.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Why would an atheist try to convince a Christian that he has it wrong? For personal pride?

No because you tell us that we are bad people(going to hell) because we don't believe.

 

[jayfox]

No because you tell us that we are bad people(going to hell) because we don't believe.

No. That's not quite right. I tell you that I am equally as bad (or probably worse) and no more deserving of God's favour. I tell you that you do not have to go to Hell and that God has provided a way for you to go to Heaven to be with Him instead, even though none of us, myself definitely included, deserve it.

 

[Djevv]

As I expected you aren't actually interested in philosophy at all.Only special pleading.

Perhaps you didn't explain it well . I mean know as a person, not completely define. What do you mean by 'knowable'?

 

[evo]

Perhaps you didn't explain it well . I mean know as a person, not completely define. What do you mean by 'knowable'?

Sorry Djevv.I can't be bothered any more.It's obvious to me you don't really want to seriosly discuss it.

I'll leave you to Pantera et al.

 

[Tigers of Old]

No. That's not quite right. I tell you that I am equally as bad (or probably worse) and no more deserving of God's favour. I tell you that you do not have to go to Hell and that God has provided a way for you to go to Heaven to be with Him instead, even though none of us, myself definitely included, deserve it.

but if I don't believe because I have never felt it/seen god, I will be treated no better than a mass murderer after life. Even worse if they repent ('feel God') at the eleventh hour.
This is what I completely object to & totally reject.

As I said some folks just don't 'feel' what you do, yet according to the Bible & yourself they will be punished for all eternity because of that?

All this on the back of word of mouth.
Crazy.

I am not scared of something I can't see or have no physical evidence of & which no one on this planet has actually seen/felt.
If I do end up in Hell or whatever it is because of that, so be it.