Atheism

[jayfox]

However all other Gods were man-made? A few people might disagree (ie adherents to those other Gods)....how you could you justify your surety that would be any more convincing than their own justification?

No, in fact the Muslim God isn't completely man made either. Their God started off as the same God as the Jews but their beliefs went off on a tangent later on. Much like the Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses etc. as well. The basis of these religious groups was originally the same but people misinterpreted the word of God and went off in their own direction.

 

[Disco08]

But Buddha, Brahman, Zeus, all the Greek gods etc. - all completely made up?

 

[jayfox]

You don't have to have watched many animal doco's to know that all cats, small to very big will use their prey to hone their senses. It's purely to develop and maintain skills that are vital to wild cats' survival. Of course domestic cats still show this in-bred trait too, although probably not forever. Whilst it seems cruel judging it on a human level, as antman says it's pointless to judge these actions anthropomorphically. The cats need this exercise to survive so the trauma suffered by their prey is inevitable if the cats' species are to thrive. If anyone was being cruel it's the being that created this situation.

Ha, ha, ha. You're unbelievable. No responsibility ever gets apportioned to anyone but the Creator does it. You love to live in a world of denial and without judgement. I reckon it's time you made people (and cats ;D) start taking responsibility for their own actions rather than saying "it's God's fault because He created them that way". I can assure you that that defense won't stand up when you see Him in judgement.

 

[Disco08]

Which part of that universally accepted theory as to why cats do that with their prey do you not agree with?

 

[jayfox]

I think chimpanzees and gorillas are documented as having taken revenge on physically and even murdering other apes. Anyone who can back me up there?

Yep. What about lions who go and find another pride with females in it, kill the current dominant male, then go and kill all of his offspring, causing the females to come into season quicker so he can now mate with them.

 

[ToraToraTora]

Yes, yes, so my point being, there are zoos in hell.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Yep. What about lions who go and find another pride with females in it, kill the current dominant male, then go and kill all of his offspring, causing the females to come into season quicker so he can now mate with them.

That is one, among many, successful evolutionary tactics. What is your point?

 

[jayfox]

But Buddha, Brahman, Zeus, all the Greek gods etc. - all completely made up?

Brahman, isn't that a breed of cow?

I think it is now universally accepted that the Greek Gods were made up, even by all of the Greeks. Has a Greek God ever been documented to have spent 30+ years on Earth, performing miracles and allowing others to interact with them?

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I think it is now universally accepted that the Greek Gods were made up, even by all of the Greeks.

As will your God one day I suspect.

 

[jayfox]

That is one, among many, successful evolutionary tactics. What is your point?

I don't see how that is evolutionary when lions do it to other lions to mate with lions to create more lions? Ha, ha, ha!

My point is that the animal world can be cruel. I find it hard to believe otherwise. I reckon the lion cubs who get mauled and left for death would think it is cruel, anyway.

 

[ToraToraTora]

JF, is your God ALL love, or is he also cruel?

 

[jayfox]

As will your God one day I suspect.

Well, on the contrary I am sure that you will meet Him one day. I hope that it isn't too late by then.

 

[ToraToraTora]

Well, on the contrary I am sure that you will meet Him one day. I hope that it isn't too late by then.

Sorry JF, but smug supernatural threats don't cut it with us.

 

[evo]

As will your God one day I suspect.

Nieztsche and Darwin killed him 100 years ago.It's just that many people haven't got with the program as yet.

 

[Disco08]

Brahman, isn't that a breed of cow?

It's Hinduism's ultimate soul. Good thing you know all about these religions before you denounce them.

I think it is now universally accepted that the Greek Gods were made up, even by all of the Greeks. Has a Greek God ever been documented to have spent 30+ years on Earth, performing miracles and allowing others to interact with them?

I think many of them lived their lives on earth.

 

[ToraToraTora]

Brahman, isn't that a breed of cow?

I think it is now universally accepted that the Greek Gods were made up, even by all of the Greeks. Has a Greek God ever been documented to have spent 30+ years on Earth, performing miracles and allowing others to interact with them?

Documented. In......the Bible, right? Oh brother.....the Bible is the antithesis of documentation.

 

[jayfox]

JF, is your God ALL love, or is he also cruel?

God is certainly loving and gracious beyond what we can understand but the Bible tells us that he "allows evil to prosper for a time". It also has explanations for this and one, off the top of my head and without any research, is that He allows us to be tempted to test and strengthen our faith. It also says that He will never test us beyond what we can bear. This basically means that if we resist evil when we are tempted with it our faith will be all the stronger for it in the long run.

 

[jayfox]

Sorry JF, but smug supernatural threats don't cut it with us.

That wasn't the least bit smug and it certainly wasn't a threat.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I don't see how that is evolutionary when lions do it to other lions to mate with lions to create more lions? Ha, ha, ha!

Evolution is not just about speciation events. It is just a change in the genetics (allelic frequency) in a population over time. If these genetic changes lead to reproductive isolation of one population, then you can have a speciation event, but that is only one part of the big picture. Evolution has many driving forces including random drift, sexual selection and of course natural selection. You have lions that act in the 'cruel' way that you describe and lions that do not and those that act in your 'cruel' manner will have more offspring that behave in that 'cruel' manner until that becomes the dominant behaviour.

This is not to say that the 'nature red in tooth and claw' is the only evolutionary strategy. We as humans have evolved complex social structures that are selectively advantageous, at least within our local social structures. Some might argue that religion 'evolved' as a way of strengthening these social ties.....a selectively advantageous trait in our species. Chimpanzees have a strong patriarchal society, whereas bonobos have a matriarchal society. Natural selection just leads to systems that work in the current environment.

My point is that the animal world can be cruel. I find it hard to believe otherwise. I reckon the lion cubs who get mauled and left for death would think it is cruel, anyway.

Of course it can be cruel....but that is the way of the world. Fortunately we have evolved the ability to be introspective and develop complex social interactions that has allowed us to develop a moral frameworks.

None of this requires a God BTW....the concept may prove useful for localised social cohesion, but this has nothing to do with the actual reality of said God.

 

[Tiger74]

I think it is now universally accepted that the Greek Gods were made up, even by all of the Greeks. Has a Greek God ever been documented to have spent 30+ years on Earth, performing miracles and allowing others to interact with them?

Yes, Zeus. His various nocturnal activities in various guises created the likes of Heracles, and it was the Greek gods who introduced fire to man. And this is just a start. The Greek gods had a much more interactive relationship with their worshippers, as opposed to your God who drowned a few million on a whim.