Atheism

[evo]

Personally I don't think your philosophy stuff makes a lot of sense either. But I'm polite enough not to mention it.

Politeness is for schmucks.Philosophy/religion and debate is much more interesting bloodied and bare fisted.

I invite you to do your worst. Thats why I put it 'out there.'

OK I am not a Physicist, so this is my laymans take on it. Since you have all of space-time originating at an impossiblility -a dimensionless point - a singularity - I think that existance from non-existance is a reasonable way to say it. Nothing, not time, not space, not matter existed prior to this event - in other words there was not even a 'before'. Weird eh?

From here. '"three British astrophysicists, Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose turned their attention to the Theory of Relativity and its implications regarding our notions of time. In 1968 and 1970, they published papers in which they extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to include measurements of time and space.1, 2 According to their calculations, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy."3 The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know. We don't know where it came from, why it's here, or even where it is. All we really know is that we are inside of it and at one time it didn't exist and neither did we.'

I've done some reading on this topic, but I am always prepared to do more .

Hmm ok.Must admit I've never seen it described quite like that.

 

[Disco08]

I read that as though they are reasoning that space and its contents came from nothing which now exists in this universe, but that an event caused it which they know absolutely nothing about.

 

[evo]

Someone stole my plastic jesus!

 

[Six Pack]

Someone stole my plastic jesus!

my dog ate it man

 

[Disco08]

Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect The Bible to make mention of the fact that God created the universe in such a way that it is continually expanding?

 

[Six Pack]

nope, i dont think so Disco.

 

[Disco08]

Too much to ask 6y?

Djevv, it might pay to do your reading about the theories regarding the universe's beginnings at places that don't have such an obvious Christian bias. In my experience these sites tend to not give you the full picture.

 

[Freezer]

Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect The Bible to make mention of the fact that God created the universe in such a way that it is continually expanding?

Can you imagine Jesus sitting down and explaining the Big Bang theory to the masses?

 

[Djevv]

Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect The Bible to make mention of the fact that God created the universe in such a way that it is continually expanding?

Job 9:8 'He alone stretches out the heavens
and treads on the waves of the sea.'

 

[Six Pack]

Can you imagine Jesus sitting down and explaining the Big Bang theory to the masses?

an if he turned a bit of water into wine he could get them to believe anything!

 

[Djevv]

Too much to ask 6y?

Djevv, it might pay to do your reading about the theories regarding the universe's beginnings at places that don't have such an obvious Christian bias. In my experience these sites tend to not give you the full picture.

The site was 'all about science'. Is it Christian? Again I probably need to do more reading, but trying to reply to panther's posts seems to soak up my time and I reaally do have other things I'm supposed to be doing .

 

[Disco08]

Yeah mate, it's heavily biased to Christian arguments. Try reading their sections on 'Does God Exist?' or 'Creation Vs Evolution'.

Job 9:8 'He alone stretches out the heavens
and treads on the waves of the sea.'

Is this the only (rather ambiguous) reference to it Djevv? Given the detail provided on so many other seemingly trivial matters couldn't we reasonably expect a little more?

Can you imagine Jesus sitting down and explaining the Big Bang theory to the masses?

I'm sure God could have included a nice 50 word summary for us when he narrated the account of creation to whoever wrote the book of Genesis.

 

[AngryAnt]

Djevv, it might pay to do your reading about the theories regarding the universe's beginnings at places that don't have such an obvious Christian bias. In my experience these sites tend to not give you the full picture.

from djevv's latest site.

Overall, the evolution of man pervades as the accepted paradigm on the origin of man within the scientific community. This is not because it has been proven scientifically, but because alternative viewpoints bring with them metaphysical implications which go against the modern naturalistic paradigm.

Bwawahahahaha.

 

[Six Pack]

from djevv's latest site.

Bwawahahahaha.

thats a really funny defence. sort of like Alec Tudor backing away from Binger Lee.

Its funny until someone gets hurt!

 

[Disco08]

In more way's than one, these guys are AllAboutGOD.com!

 

[Six Pack]

I really dont have much to say about all this stuff, but i always wonder if the christians realise how flimsy and silly their stuff sounds? it bothers me cos i like foxy and have got to know him a little bit, and dj and the others seem really bright and intelligent but i still cant see how they believe what they do other than it got deeply shoved into them when they were kids.

i remember when i was at uni and the fundamentalists used to always approach anyone who was on their own or who looked upset. these were the 'weak' targets.

that annoyed me and i used to tell them to *smile* off, but i wonder if some of the christians here have been captured at similar moments of weakness?

and i dont mean weakness in a bad way, but just when u are vulnerable.

i would understand that.

i dunno, all of u guys with yr big bangs and wittensteins and eyeless fish and dna and stuff, u know i cant be bothered with it.

it seems like theres this gap, yknow, some of u guys seem to have had some road to damascus moment and some of us havent and ne'er the twain shall meet.

i dont want to die, cos this is all i have. i want to be happy and to be loved and to love. but there aint no god there directing my path.

some of u will see this as sad, i see it as liberating.

 

[Disco08]

Well said 6y.

tigertime, I thought I'd post a link for you to have a look at as you've been kind enough to post so many yourself.

 

[tigertime2]

The flood theory has been discussed here quite extensively tigertime. If you use the search function provided I'm sure you can find much of that discussion.

Try here for quite a bit of evidence that leads most experts to believe the story as presented in The Bible to be highly unlikely.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

Again, no evidence - just a committed Atheist trying to prove with flawed facts that his theory supposedly proves that Noah's Ark and the flood did not happen. Of cousre the Atheist applauds any argument that in any way can prove that God does not exist. The Bible clearly show we believe Noah's Ark by Faith, read Hebrews. why would I distrust God, when ever spiritual truth has been revealed to me by God's Holy Spirit?

 

[Disco08]

Again, no evidence - just a committed Atheist trying to prove with flawed facts that his theory supposedly proves that Noah's Ark and the flood did not happen.

I assume you mean other than these mostly peer-reviewed (other than the Woodmorrappe stuff) works written by relevant experts?

Gould, Stephen Jay, 1980. A quahog is a quahog. In The panda's thumb, Norton, New York.

Steinsaltz, Adin, 1976. The essential Talmud. Basic books.

Whitcomb, J.C. Jr. & H.M. Morris, 1961. The Genesis Flood. Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Philadelphia PA.

Wilson, D.E. & D.M. Reeder (eds.), 1993. Mammal species of the world. Smithsonian Institution Press. (http://www.nmnh.si.edu/msw/)

Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: a feasibility study. Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California.

Batten, R. Peter, 1976. Living trophies. Thomas Y. Crowell Co., New York.

Foelix, Rainer F., 1996. The biology of spiders, 2nd ed., Oxford University Press, New York. Chpt. 6.

Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: a feasibility study. Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California.

Austin, Steven A., John R. Baumgardner, D. Russell Humphreys, Andrew A. Snelling, Larry Vardiman, & Kurt P. Wise, 1994. Catastrophic plate tectonics: a global flood model of earth history. Proceedings of the third international conference on creationism, technical symposium sessions, pp. 609-621.

Brown, Walt, 1997. In the beginning: compelling evidence for creation and the Flood. ( www.creationscience.com/onlinebook)

Baumgardner, John R., 1990a. Changes accompanying Noah's Flood. Proceedings of the second international conference on creationism, vol. II, pp. 35-45.

Baumgardner, John R., 1990b. The imparative of non-stationary natural law in relation to Noah's Flood. Creation Research Society Quarterly 27(3): 98-100.

Baumgardner, John R., 1994. Patterns of ocean circulation over the continents during Noah's Flood. Proceedings of the third international conference on creationism, technical symposium sessions, pp. 77-86.

Carroll, Robert L., 1997. Patterns and processes of vertebrate evolution, Cambridge University Press.

Matsumura, Molleen, 1997. Miracles in, creationism out: "The geophysics of God". Reports of the National Center for Science Education 17(3): 29-32.

Poldervaart, Arie, 1955. Chemistry of the earth's crust. pp. 119-144 In: Poldervaart, A., ed., Crust of the Earth, Geological Society of America Special Paper 62, Waverly Press, MD.

Whitcomb, J.C. Jr. & H.M. Morris, 1961. The Genesis Flood. Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Philadelphia PA.

Alley, R. B., D. A. Meese, C. A. Shuman, A. J. Gow, K.C. Taylor, P. M. Grootes, J. W. C. White, M. Ram, E. W. Waddington, P. A. Mayewski, & G. A. Zielinski, 1993. Abrupt increase in Greenland snow accumulation at the end of the Younger Dryas event. Nature 362: 527-529.

Becker, B. & Kromer, B., 1993. The continental tree-ring record - absolute chronology, C-14 calibration and climatic-change at 11 KA. Palaeogeography Palaeoclimatology Palaeoecology, 103 (1-2): 67-71.

Becker, B., Kromer, B. & Trimborn, P., 1991. A stable-isotope tree-ring timescale of the late glacial Holocene boundary. Nature 353 (6345): 647-649.

Johnsen, S. J., H. B. Clausen, W. Dansgaard, K. Fuhrer, N. Gundestrap, C. U. Hammer, P. Iversen, J. Jouzel, B. Stauffer, & J. P. Steffensen, 1992. Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core. Nature 359: 311-313.

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Andrews, J. E., 1988. Soil-zone microfabrics in calcrete and in desiccation cracks from the Upper Jurassic Purbeck Formation of Dorset. Geological Journal 23(3): 261-270.

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Crimes, Peter, and Mary L Droser, 1992. Trace fossils and bioturbation: the other fossil record. Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics 23: 339-360.

Cristie, R.L., and McMillan, N.J. (eds.), 1991. Tertiary fossil forests of the Geodetic Hills, Axel Heiberg Island, Arctic Archipelago, Geological Survey of Canada, Bulletin 403., 227pp.

Dawson, J.W., 1868. Acadian Geology. The Geological Structure, Organic Remains, and Mineral Resources of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island, 2nd edition. MacMillan and Co.: London, 694pp.

Donohoe, H.V. Jr. and Grantham, R.G. (eds.), 1989. Geological Highway Map of Nova Scotia, 2nd edition. Atlantic Geoscience Society, Halifax, Nova Scotia. AGS Special Publication no. 1, 1:640 000.

Eyles, N. and Miall, A.D., 1984, Glacial Facies. IN: Walker, R.G., Facies Models, 2nd edition. Geoscience Canada, Reprint Series 1: 15-38.

Ferguson, Laing, 1988. The fossil cliffs of Joggins. Nova Scotia Museum, Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Fezer, Karl D., 1993. "Creationism: Please Don't Call It Science" Creation/Evolution, 13:1 (Summer 1993), 45-49.

Gansser, A., 1964. Geology of the Himalayas, John Wiley and Sons, Ltd., New York.

Gastaldo, R. A., 1990, Early Pennsylvanian swamp forests in the Mary Lee coal zone, Warrior Basin, Alabama. in R. A. Gastaldo et. al., Carboniferous Coastal Environments and Paleocommunities of the Mary Lee Coal Zone, Marion and Walker Counties, Alabama. Guidebook for the Field Trip VI, Alabama Geological Survey, Tuscaloosa, Alabama. pp. 41-54.

Gilette, D.D. and Lockley, M.G. (eds.), 1989. Dinosaur Tracks and Traces, Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 454pp.

Gore, Rick, 1993. Dinosaurs. National Geographic, 183(1) (Jan. 1993): 2-54.

Grieve, R. A. F., 1997. Extraterrestrial impact events: the record in the rocks and the stratigraphic record. Palaeogeography, Paleoclimatology, Paleoecology 132: 5-23.

Hubert, J.F., and Mertz, K.A., Jr., 1984. Eolian sandstones in Upper Triassic-Lower Jurassic red beds of the Fundy Basin, Nova Scotia. Journal of Sedimentary Petrology, 54: 798-810.

Jackson, M.P.A., et al., 1990. Salt diapirs of the Great Kavir, Central Iran. Geological Society of America, Memoir 177, 139pp.

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[Six Pack]

Again, no evidence - just a committed Atheist trying to prove with flawed facts that his theory supposedly proves that Noah's Ark and the flood did not happen. Of cousre the Atheist applauds any argument that in any way can prove that God does not exist. The Bible clearly show we believe Noah's Ark by Faith, read Hebrews. why would I distrust God, when ever spiritual truth has been revealed to me by God's Holy Spirit?

heres the thing mate. disco has provided u with some reading.

i cant be bothered. all i can say is that the whole notion of the ark is ridiculous and i cant be shagged even debating it.

silly old fairy tale