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Are There Too Many Risks Associated with Drafting Indigenous Footballers?
- Thread starter thegdog
- Start date
lamb22 said:
You're looking at one club which is well known to have "culture" issues. I am looking at the league in general where it would appear that indigenous players seem to have more than their fair share of issues, be it trouble with the law, inconsistency, family issues etc.
The question being asked is if their obvious football ability (we're allowed to say that because it's nice and makes us feel good) is offset by all the other "problems" that seem to come with so many of these players (which we somehow aren't allowed to discuss because it's unpleasant and therefore must be racist).
It's been noted on here by others that indigenous players represent approx 8-10% of all AFL players. Of those indigenous players, how many can you name that have not been "homesick", or dumped due to bad form, or been in trouble for club disciplinary reasons, or been in trouble with the law????
And of the 90% of "other" AFL players, regardless of background, how many have had similar issues????
Yes
Intereseting thread. The wider question is, should we just write blacks off because they are hopeless? Paying no regard to why that is the case. Most of us, except the most mean spirited, know the answer to that.
Aboriginal people have a much higher proportion of severely disadvantaged people than Anglo-Celtic people, its a fact. That is in large part because Aboriginal society, culture, communities and bodies were systematically destroyed by Anglo-Celtic people. I say yes black people are worth recruiting because they are good players, have generally done it harder and shown a lot of character to get themselves in a position to be considered for drafting, and non-indigenous society owes it to black fellas to give them a chance, its the least we can do, although obviously a lot of people and the thread starter don't think so.
Intereseting thread. The wider question is, should we just write blacks off because they are hopeless? Paying no regard to why that is the case. Most of us, except the most mean spirited, know the answer to that.
Aboriginal people have a much higher proportion of severely disadvantaged people than Anglo-Celtic people, its a fact. That is in large part because Aboriginal society, culture, communities and bodies were systematically destroyed by Anglo-Celtic people. I say yes black people are worth recruiting because they are good players, have generally done it harder and shown a lot of character to get themselves in a position to be considered for drafting, and non-indigenous society owes it to black fellas to give them a chance, its the least we can do, although obviously a lot of people and the thread starter don't think so.
It would be good to see more black Africans (like Daw) get involved in footy and then drafted to AFL clubs within the next 10-20 years.
thegdog said:
I think the correct true-blue aussie terminology is 'black, white or brindle'. At least you got the exclamation marks right.
tigersnake said:
I don't agree we owe anyone a chance in footy terms either. It's something that has to happen on merit regardless of race, upbringing, sexual preference, eye colour, kind of car driven or any other criteria. Selection of players for the AFL should never be a favour.
tigersnake said:
So you admit that there are some issues affecting Aborigines that may be a downside to their recruitment? ....but then you say we should not factor these issues in anyway because they're our fault?
So basically we should only look at Aboriginal players (and Aborigines in general) with blinkered rose coloured glasses because you have a guilt complex?
Who's the racist now?
TigerForce said:
Well their coming to Australia in increasing numbers, so it's only a matter of time before we see more I reckon. Same as after WWII we had a huge influx of Europeans to Australia, it took 20 - 30 years before we started to see them in the footy ranks.
agincourt said:
It ain't me. Look, we've had indigenous debates before, over on the general section. They go around in circles, everyone talking across each other, its pointless, disappointing, and indicative of why Aboriginal people still have severe problems entering society.
Did anyone really think I was suggesting a blackfella with no talent should be recruited? You only have to read about the approach of the Woodsmen in mentoring Jurruh to see how it can and should be done.
agincourt said:
What a cracker! How many non indigenous interstate kids or country kids haven't become homesick or dropped due to poor form?
Lets stick with trouble with the law. John Nichols - embezzler - (white) Carlton, A number of 'flashers' or 'exhibitionist' who played for Carlton and St Kilda - white. David Dench - fraudster (North Melbourne) - white, Elliot, Pratt, white collar concerns - Carlton - white. Cousins - drug conneiseur - white Richmond, Fev (nuff said) white carlton, Carey - police and girlfiend whacker - white North Melbourne. Captain pee pee - Richmond - white. Lockett's creative greyhound enterprise - white St Kilda.
Petty assaults and drink driving - a gazillion examples of whites at all clubs.
I think we should be recruiting only buddhists and asians as they have the best discilpinary records in the AFL.
agincourt said:
If you read my post 50, I think 'positive' sterotypes are still stereo types. Where was Robbie Ahmat's or Wally Lovett's or Jarryd Oakley Nichols obvious talents. Similarly JON came with none of your alleged indigenous "issues'. Tee totaller, clean skin workaholic. I'm sure Richard Tambling would take offence at the garbage on this thread as well, while he in particular would acknowledge that transition to AFL and a different cultural environment can be very difficult for kids from NT communities.
Your post has the ring of a poor victim who isn't allowed to say anything lest he be set upon. Such victimisation doesnt exist on this board and not in the general australian community , especially if you are white.
Others do have a right to their opinions as well though and if someone thinks you are wrong you just need to suck it up rather than whine about it!
lamb22 said:
It's about percentages, or likelihood if you like. If you believe that Aborigines have no more likelihood of "problems" than "white" players then all you need to do is answer in the affirmative the topic question which is "are indigenous footballers worth recruiting?".
For the record, I believe that Aboriginal players are especially talented but will sometimes come with inherent risks that should at least be appraised along side their football ability.
agincourt said:
My post 50 makes it clear the premise of the thread is non sensical. Added to the over representation as AFL players indigenous players also are over represented as Norm smith medallists - Rioli, Matera, Long, Macleod x 2, Pickett. That's 6 in 30 years or 20%.
swish....................buzzer.........................game over!
All players come with risks which should be appraised.
lamb22 said:
:rofl
Are you kidding?
As someone who has never been prepared to keep my mouth shut for the sake of not offending other people's sensibilities I can assure you that I have been "set upon" more times than I could ever count on all manner of issues including matters of race, stereotyping and generalisations.
You only have to look at the first 20 or so responses to this thread to see that anyone voicing an opinion which is "uncomfortable" for the moral majority to be confronted by, will be promptly attacked with shouts of "racist" or "delete" etc!
I thank the mods for allowing what has so far been a reasoned and well controlled debate to a pertinent question.
It's clear that mankind in general is too much trouble and not worth recruiting.
We should stick to recruiting chimps.
We should stick to recruiting chimps.
When your are asking a question by singling out a race or culture this is absolute racism and anyone who thinks it isn't is probably racist themselves. :'(
If this Topic is not deleted i for one will not open puntroadend again and i urge others to boycott until this and any other posts like this are banned. :-X :-X :-X
If this Topic is not deleted i for one will not open puntroadend again and i urge others to boycott until this and any other posts like this are banned. :-X :-X :-X
Tiger74 said:anecdotally South Aussies tend to want to go home, should we bypass them too? :
If their name is Wayne Campbell then definately :hihi
Seriously I understand (but in no way agree with) the negative opinions on our indigenous players, though with a little more thought and life experience i would wager these opinions would diminish rapidly. You just have to look at thelife expectancy of an indigenous person vs a cauccy and there is one of many clues as to why things are so difficult for indigenous people.
That being said, Yes indigenous player are worth recruiting. Without a doubt in my mind.
shamekha said:
I disagree Shamekha. There is actually a fair percentage of people who are racist whether benignly or overt. Their expressions will necessarily refect their values. They do have a right though to express themselves.
They are thinking of bringing in a 'Blasphemy law' somewhere in Europe which would prevent well ...'blasphemy'. I think if you believe religion is ridiculous you should be allowed to express it. I am against that propsed law.
Australia is thinking about bringing in an internet filter for the expressed intent of filtering out child pornography. Great intent. Only problem is that the list of sites they intend to block is secret and rights of review are non existent. Similar to Chinese state censorship. The government will decide what people can and cannot access. I am against the internet filter.
I know Rosy has some rules on behaviour and content and as long as people stay within those rules freedom of expression should be encouraged at all times even if at times it is disagreeable.
