LeeToRainesToRoach said:
You mean Goldstein? I would rate him a considerably tougher test than Wood
-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
angus graham playing like a cardboard cutout
- Thread starter jokershoppe
- Start date
You mean Goldstein? I would rate him a considerably tougher test than Wood
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Sure he's promising, but he's no McIntosh - yet. You'd expect a #1 ruck to give his team an advantage when pitted against an apprentice.
Uncle said:
I dont think there is an old style ruckman who could play 4 quarters of modern football.
All modern team need to give their ruckmen a breather, but they have someone who is capable of playing in multiple roles as that relief. I think Vickery will become that person for us, but he will primarily be played as a forward not a specialist ruckman. Post could also develop into that role.
Angus has done ok shouldering the load so far, but lets see how he is trucking come round 15 or 16. I'm not sure he has the athleticism to carry him though a full season.
I suppose time will tell unc.
I thought you said you watched football....jackfrost said:Eloquently put there Nige....... crawl all you like there Big fella, but I will be expecting dinner and a Movie at least, I'll slag off on whoever I think is worthy of it from week to week and you can continue to swoon/fondle/daydream over whatever AFL wannabe's you care about.
Totally incorrect by the way ...... I believe that the following players could very easily be a part of the next Richmond Premiership side, just so we have that very clear.
Batchelor, Conca, Connors, Cotchin, Delidio, Grigg, Helbig, Jackson, Martin, Newman, Reiwoldt.
Now find me a solid Ruckman, 2 Key Backs, 1 Key Forward and 3 role-playing forwards to start and a few supersub types and I believe we'd be in business.
We're only about 10 players shy of contesting for a premiership I believe !!!
As for him being a 23 year old kid from the Country ????.........is that supposed to be a first ?.....from what I remember in my playing days, most players came from Country Leagues, so what makes Gus so much different ?
I recall ruckmen once upon a time taking marks around the ground, busting packs open for their crumbing brigade, putting fear into opposition players etc, do you see this bloke doing that ?...hell at 6' 7" I sure as hell HOPE he's winning a few tap outs or I'd be asking myself why aren't I playing Basketball for a living.
Your type make it sound like that every player on the richmond roster is the next Richmond Immortal, if thats the case, please explain to me how we are ...where we are ?....
If you can succeed at that, I promise to stop "slagging off" (some classic oldtime Aussie lingo there I might add) and will join you in singing the praises of Lanky Country kid types.
It's not the '80 chief, in this day and age, with the frenetic speed of play, there are few packs for anyone to split let alone the ruck who generally are the slowest players on the team and will find it difficult to keep ahead of the play.
Even as the bounce packs form what the hell is the point of splitting the pack when all and sundry are dropping their heads and getting free kicks for high contact, look at Gus in this area and you find he tackles like mad (one of our top tacklers), doing the smartest thing you can in that situation. The bash and crash big man gets pinged for free kicks more than any other in the game, a bit of a dinosaur now really.
The only real pack marks now are coming from a kick out, where gus has contested well, and on f50 entries and gus has not played forward all year. Last year when he did play forward he clunked a few beauties in packs (and kicked goals) so I don't understand why people say he can't take a pack mark. If there's no opportunity it's pretty hard to do, matter of fact it pretty hard to do anyway!!
As for the county kid thing, when you play in the country, by and large you get country players
. Gus is from King Island and the change from there to here would almost be the same as coming from the centre. Their league only has 4 teams FFS. As for thinking all are Immortals, try to keep the exagerations in this galaxy chief can you. I have my concerns about players and have expressed these openly on this forum so I don't think you have read all my posts, however I find it truly gaulling that people continue to bag Gus for playing his role and flogging his guts out to do so.
We are developing and Gus will develop along with the team, the third quarter showed just what we can do, regardless of how many people say Collingwood had a rest, good teams don't let the opposition back into the contest at any time for a rest and, as much as it hurts me to say, collingwood are a good team.
As for me, I don't just follow a few favorite and bag the rest, I support anyone who pulls on a richmond jumper. Most have the potential to do some good work, some don't but I hate the "If they're not a potential brownlow medalist, they're s#!t" attitude that some on here seem to continually take.
I just watched a reply of the third quarter, and he managed some amazing tips straight to our players... One particular example went straight in to Cotchin who then drilled it straight to a full forward... As good a tip as I've seen from any ruckman...
Midfielders like Cotchin and Deledio and now Foley are now really emerging as great on ballers, and every game are going to learn more and more about find a ways to work with our Ruckman to get the ball to their advantage....
There is just freak Rucks like Sandilands, but otherwise a guy like Graham you can just work with and have him improve a bit game by game, and the midfield continue to get better at find a moment of space with the correct timing at ball ups to make Graham look good when he does win the tip...
Look at what we have...
- He's still a young guy who has years of opportunity to improve.
- In the time he's been at Richmond he has developed his body in the right direction.
- He is growing in athleticism. He doesn't offer something ONLY in the ruck.
- He is not adverse to tackling whenever possible.
- He gets open pretty regularly to take a mark, then dishes off to a midfielder.
- He works himself into the ground. As seen against Collingwood when he literally ran out of legs, but is constantly working.
- He's got the natural height and leap to be a good ruckman with development of technique and skill
- He still hasn't found his true confidence out there, so that is something that will take him to another level once he feels fully confident...
I just don't see the negatives as much as everyone else... I think he's starting off from a great base, and in 3 or 4 years we'll truly see what he is capable of. But I think it's unfair to start writing him off this early. And too early to expect him to be the outstanding ruck of the competition. No one can see into the future unfortunately otherwise recruiting and player development would be a breeze...
But I truly believe this guy is worth persisting with.... If eventually our whole team is outstanding aside from our ruck, we may be able to madly recruit an established standout ruck.. But Graham is work continuing with while the rest of the side is developing as well.. In my opinion anyway..
Midfielders like Cotchin and Deledio and now Foley are now really emerging as great on ballers, and every game are going to learn more and more about find a ways to work with our Ruckman to get the ball to their advantage....
There is just freak Rucks like Sandilands, but otherwise a guy like Graham you can just work with and have him improve a bit game by game, and the midfield continue to get better at find a moment of space with the correct timing at ball ups to make Graham look good when he does win the tip...
Look at what we have...
- He's still a young guy who has years of opportunity to improve.
- In the time he's been at Richmond he has developed his body in the right direction.
- He is growing in athleticism. He doesn't offer something ONLY in the ruck.
- He is not adverse to tackling whenever possible.
- He gets open pretty regularly to take a mark, then dishes off to a midfielder.
- He works himself into the ground. As seen against Collingwood when he literally ran out of legs, but is constantly working.
- He's got the natural height and leap to be a good ruckman with development of technique and skill
- He still hasn't found his true confidence out there, so that is something that will take him to another level once he feels fully confident...
I just don't see the negatives as much as everyone else... I think he's starting off from a great base, and in 3 or 4 years we'll truly see what he is capable of. But I think it's unfair to start writing him off this early. And too early to expect him to be the outstanding ruck of the competition. No one can see into the future unfortunately otherwise recruiting and player development would be a breeze...
But I truly believe this guy is worth persisting with.... If eventually our whole team is outstanding aside from our ruck, we may be able to madly recruit an established standout ruck.. But Graham is work continuing with while the rest of the side is developing as well.. In my opinion anyway..
jackfrost said:Eloquently put there Nige....... crawl all you like there Big fella, but I will be expecting dinner and a Movie at least, I'll slag off on whoever I think is worthy of it from week to week and you can continue to swoon/fondle/daydream over whatever AFL wannabe's you care about.
Totally incorrect by the way ...... I believe that the following players could very easily be a part of the next Richmond Premiership side, just so we have that very clear.
Batchelor, Conca, Connors, Cotchin, Delidio, Grigg, Helbig, Jackson, Martin, Newman, Reiwoldt.
Now find me a solid Ruckman, 2 Key Backs, 1 Key Forward and 3 role-playing forwards to start and a few supersub types and I believe we'd be in business.
We're only about 10 players shy of contesting for a premiership I believe !!!
As for him being a 23 year old kid from the Country ????.........is that supposed to be a first ?.....from what I remember in my playing days, most players came from Country Leagues, so what makes Gus so much different ?
I recall ruckmen once upon a time taking marks around the ground, busting packs open for their crumbing brigade, putting fear into opposition players etc, do you see this bloke doing that ?...hell at 6' 7" I sure as hell HOPE he's winning a few tap outs or I'd be asking myself why aren't I playing Basketball for a living.
Your type make it sound like that every player on the richmond roster is the next Richmond Immortal, if thats the case, please explain to me how we are ...where we are ?....
If you can succeed at that, I promise to stop "slagging off" (some classic oldtime Aussie lingo there I might add) and will join you in singing the praises of Lanky Country kid types.
Fantastic post! :clap :clap
Seems if you don't continually praise the Edwards of this world then you are not a true supporter.
Col.W.Kurtz said:
I like Goldstein and think he's probably better than Gus already, which is what I was hinting at.
I don’t have a problem with Graham - in fact I like him. His awkward style is not pleasing to the eye but maybe his awkwardness is also disconcerting to opponents, who knows.
Don’t think Hardwick would be intentionally playing the lesser ruckman week in week out for yuks.
Don’t think Hardwick would be intentionally playing the lesser ruckman week in week out for yuks.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. We have been fantastically bad in the ruck over the last 5 years, phenomenally so. I'm not looking for Gus to be good, or even average, just mediocre would be an improvement on what we have had.
Edit- btw this is what Mick said about Gus:
"They slaughtered us as far as hitouts go for most of the night. We had to play a different role at the stoppages, but when they controlled it they scored."
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Yeah I read that. Malthouse was extraodinarily kind to Richmond in that press conference. Might've been a backhanded slap at Wood. They also highlighted on Fox where Graham was ball-watching and failed to chase his man to the goal line, resulting in a mark & goal to his opponent.
I'm looking at Graham in terms of leading the ruck in a GF. He tries pretty hard but I don't know that the scope for improvement is there. As you say, he's the best we have for now.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I know what you mean, but the Hawks won a grand final with Robert Campbell as first ruck where they were beaten badly in the hitouts. On Friday night the Pies stopped playing to Wood and concentrated on trying to stop Tiger mids getting a free run at the ball at stoppages.
BIGNIGE said:I thought you said you watched football....
It's not the '80 chief, in this day and age, with the frenetic speed of play, there are few packs for anyone to split let alone the ruck who generally are the slowest players on the team and will find it difficult to keep ahead of the play.
Even as the bounce packs form what the hell is the point of splitting the pack when all and sundry are dropping their heads and getting free kicks for high contact, look at Gus in this area and you find he tackles like mad (one of our top tacklers), doing the smartest thing you can in that situation. The bash and crash big man gets pinged for free kicks more than any other in the game, a bit of a dinosaur now really.
The only real pack marks now are coming from a kick out, where gus has contested well, and on f50 entries and gus has not played forward all year. Last year when he did play forward he clunked a few beauties in packs (and kicked goals) so I don't understand why people say he can't take a pack mark. If there's no opportunity it's pretty hard to do, matter of fact it pretty hard to do anyway!!
As for the county kid thing, when you play in the country, by and large you get country players
As for thinking all are Immortals, try to keep the exagerations in this galaxy chief can you. I have my concerns about players and have expressed these openly on this forum so I don't think you have read all my posts, however I find it truly gaulling that people continue to bag Gus for playing his role and flogging his guts out to do so.
We are developing and Gus will develop along with the team, the third quarter showed just what we can do, regardless of how many people say Collingwood had a rest, good teams don't let the opposition back into the contest at any time for a rest and, as much as it hurts me to say, collingwood are a good team.
As for me, I don't just follow a few favorite and bag the rest, I support anyone who pulls on a richmond jumper. Most have the potential to do some good work, some don't but I hate the "If they're not a potential brownlow medalist, they're s#!t" attitude that some on here seem to continually take.
All good and well there Big Nige....
You think the guy has the potential to be part of a successful Richmond team of the future ....... thats cool, I personally don't see it and thats just my own opinion, we can agree to disagree on that subject.
There are athletic/agile types playing the Ruck game these days mate, the Ottens, Sandilands, Jolly's, Cox's are no mugs at getting around the field and younger guns such as Kreuzer, Naitanui and even this Mumford kid are showing that large doesn't necessarily mean methodical and slow.
Ty Esler said:
True, though Campbell had a bit of mongrel in him, like the rest of the Hawthorn side. I just feel we get torched at the stoppages when Gus comes up against a quality opponent.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I agree, but I wonder how much of that our mids giving opponents a free run at the ball. Gus is tackling much more this year too which he needs to do to provide that physical prescence. If he contests hard, doesn't concede contested marks and is competitive at the taps I am ok with that.
Angus Graham is the worst first ruck option in the AFL by a long way. I don't think I have seen him take a contested mark all year. It is distressing to see hacks like Brown and Wood carve him up.
We are paying the penalty now for not using our rookie list 5 years ago to stock up on Ruckman.
We are paying the penalty now for not using our rookie list 5 years ago to stock up on Ruckman.
Mr Magic said:
i think you will find we did use our rookie list 5 years ago on a ruckman. Gus.
you are the only person i have seen who thinks Brown and Wood carved Graham up. The only one. And considering the many who dont rate him, and would be more than willing to say if they thought, that is saying something.
<
Rodney Eade Sacked
|
Lovett
>
