Adem Yze

[Tiggy Train]

I'm currently reading Cotch's book & it's interesting how we're currently going through a very similar situation to when Dimma took over. The major difference is the length of our injury list. That's having a major impact on us, though some posters disagree.

Our major issues are we don't have the star players in the young talent at the same stage. This is why we have to hit the draft and nail it.
Other issues is we are an ageing list so injuries increase and form leaves players because they can't perform at the great heights anymore.
Other problem is of the 15 premiership players on the list about 8 were role players during our success and were only good when the superstars were carrying the team.
Injuries is a only a minor issue now, but it's just talent is gone in the senior players and most of the young guys are very average.

 

[Tiggy Train]

Yeah, let's go back to the early 80s and sack coaches every other year . . . that went well.

DS

That's a myth as these coaches never went well and the majority never got contracts anywhere else. If they did they still failed.
Are you suggesting we should've kept guys on for longer as if doing so they would’ve morphed into premiership coaches?

List of Richmond Football Club coaches - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's one of the most ridiculous statements that pops up on forums.
Yze deserves another year and this time next year with another preseason and an improved list with Footy Department we will have a better idea of his coaching capabilities.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Bartlett, Sproule? Actually I thought Paul Sproule was quite good, should have had more opportunity.

DS

Bartlett got 5 years, but was hamstrung by a number of factors. Most related to lack of funds.

 

[Sintiger]

I reckon he will be gone before his 3yrs expire.
We are on the same trajectory as WC and he shows no sign of dropping senior players who have been horrendous this year.
And what style are we playing? It's not round 4 It's round 17.

How can we drop senior players when at times we have 3-4 listed players available for the VFL?

 

[Sintiger]

Bartlett, Sproule? Actually I thought Paul Sproule was quite good, should have had more opportunity.

DS

Northey? Richo reckons he was a great coach but his departure was a failure of administration

 

[Stig]

Wouldn't think it's coaches fault either

Coach has input

 

[Stig]

I reckon he will be gone before his 3yrs expire.
We are on the same trajectory as WC and he shows no sign of dropping senior players who have been horrendous this year.
And what style are we playing? It's not round 4 It's round 17.

Great post

 

[Sintiger]

The injury list isn’t bad luck either

Some is some probably isn’t

 

[ceehook2]

That's a myth as these coaches never went well and they most never got contracts anywhere else. If they did they still failed.
Are you suggesting we should've kept guys on for longer as if doing so they would’ve morphed into premiership coaches?

List of Richmond Football Club coaches - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's one of the most ridiculous statements that pops up on forums.
Yze deserves another year and this time next year with another preseason and an improved list with Footy Department we will have a better idea of his coaching capabilities.

I was fortunate to grow up following the Tigers thru the golden period under Tommy Hafey , and you see the win %
we were very spoiled and we have never got back to those heights since. That level of success allowed us to become a very ruthless club off field

In 1976 we slumped to 7th of 12 , I do remember Tommy saying he had lost the players , I can't recall if he also commented about the support of the board
I would put that Tommy had successful coaching stints at Collingwood , Geelong & Sydney and that his success with Richmond wasn't solely due to a star line up

Barry Richardson (Australian footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Barry Richardson had 2 years as coach , 77 (4th ) & 78 (7th)
My scratchy recollection he said he felt burned by the experince , I can't remember if it was 79 or 80 but he was noticed in the Melb. coaching box on game days
he didn't hold an official title like assistant coach , but was in the dug out during matches and at the huddles and clearly helping in some coaching like capacity
roll forward to 1985 and he became our President
I don't think you can call that a fail , but it isn't long enough to say he was a good coach and it looks like he chose not to continue on the coaching path

next up the iconic Tony Jewel

Tony Jewell (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you go off his stint at the Saints and the second stint with us you'd say Jewel was a poor coach
But the Saints were a basket case at the time , two wooden spoons , poor playing list , and they would water the ground to stop blow outs
then in 86/87 we were woeful
before coaching us in 79 he was coaching Caulfield in the VFA and did well with them

I would put he was a good coach , but without the cattle you have no hope

Francis Bourke - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

now with Bourke making a Grand final you would say he was a good coach , that might have been due to the quality of players and the "exodus of players" is telling
I think having not cut his coaching teeth elsewhere first was telling.

Could Bourke developed into a good coach with the right support around him ? Maybe , but we'll never know.

Mike Patterson

Mike Patterson (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again the stints at Saints , Frankston and Tigers make Mike look like a poor coach
he got two SANFL premierships , but as mentioned before , was at the Saints during a poor era for them
At Frankston , they didn't have the quality list that Preston, Port and Geelong West did but were bloody hard to beat - I'd say that was a sign of good coaching
then to us during our Dark Ages

By 1984 I was in Canberra and news of Richmond there was non existent so can't comment on his departure as coach

Paul Sproule

Paul Sproule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have no knowledge of Paul's Tassie coaching days , but from the win / loss they can't have been shockers
interesting another to stop coaching after coaching us !!!

Kevin Bartlett

Kevin Bartlett (Australian rules footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

KB takes over a wooden spooner and gets 8 wins for the season only to sink back to wooden spooners again
and then to continue to be a bottom 4 type side , he bemoaned a lack of players , facilities and support from the board
I did know a guy that was a skills coach when Royce Hart was coaching Footscray , he said "champion player , not a coach"
was that the issue with KB ? We'll never know

Alan Jeans

Allan Jeans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now Jeans was a good coach , I need some help here , did he step aside citing health reasons ?
Maybe age or timing coaching saw him lose hunger
but another to not coach after coaching us

John Northey

John Northey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Under Northey our climb out of the cellar started and the first of the 9th finishes
I think Northey's coach credentials are best judged on his time at Malb. & us as we know the Swans were a total
basket case at the time , they were grabbing players out of the Canberra league to top up
and despite getting a finals appearance with the Bears the club was plagued with Offield and culture issues not of his making
Northey is one that went onto coach after us , but like so many others did not leave on good terms

Robert Walls

Robert Walls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Walls was a premiership winning coach with the Blues
but then had 4 seasons with the party time bears
I recall a conversation with Rodney Eade saying what a mess the Bears were culture wise
I would put he was an ok coach with a good team but struggled with a moderate side
another that gave coaching away after us

Jeff Gieschen

Jeff Gieschen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

on the surface Gieschen might appear to be a moderate coach , but he did well in the Ovens and Murray league and took our seconds to a premiership
so was his coaching record above a reflection of the quality of the teams he had ?
another to not coach after us

 

[ceehook2]

Danny Frawley

Danny Frawley - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I felt there was an honesty to Frawley , he wore his heart on his sleeve
He did talk of the club having not kept up with others and had slipped behind in terms of amenities , staff etc
and in that time I did rock up to a training at Punt Rd and it set me back, it was if nothing had been done since I left Melb. in 1983

Another to not coach after us , I do feel he could have done better and coached longer if the club was in better shape when he arrived

Terry Wallace

Terry Wallace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wallace proved to be very divisive, a love him or hate him sort , and I got the odd hint similar might have been the case within the club
neither club was strong or well resourced , I think he did ok with the lists he had , he pulled off some great tactical wins
but wouldn't rate him as a master coach
I felt he rushed Tambling and others too quick into the top side too quick and that ruined their development
he did speak to it at the time and said he felt he had to do it , show the fans potential stars , give them hope for the future

Jade Rawlings

Jade Rawlings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After taking over from Wallace , was over looked for the top job
But unlike others did continue being an assistant coach at Melb. & North Melb
and now coaching at Norwood where he has a premiership

Its not uncommon for coaches to not leave on good terms , but we do seem to have a habit of coaches being bitter and burnt out
after a stint with us

Dimma analysis has been done to death

it seems to be a general consensus here that 2025 will be the year of reckoning for Yze after a record breaking injury ridden 2024

and hopefully he gets the support and resources he needs to steer us back to sustained success

Go Tiges


hopefully that puts enough stuff out there for a mature and constructive coach debate

 

[Tiggy Train]

I was fortunate to grow up following the Tigers thru the golden period under Tommy Hafey , and you see the win %
we were very spoiled and we have never got back to those heights since. That level of success allowed us to become a very ruthless club off field

In 1976 we slumped to 7th of 12 , I do remember Tommy saying he had lost the players , I can't recall if he also commented about the support of the board
I would put that Tommy had successful coaching stints at Collingwood , Geelong & Sydney and that his success with Richmond wasn't solely due to a star line up

View attachment 23310

Barry Richardson (Australian footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Barry Richardson had 2 years as coach , 77 (4th ) & 78 (7th)
My scratchy recollection he said he felt burned by the experince , I can't remember if it was 79 or 80 but he was noticed in the Melb. coaching box on game days
he didn't hold an official title like assistant coach , but was in the dug out during matches and at the huddles and clearly helping in some coaching like capacity
roll forward to 1985 and he became our President
I don't think you can call that a fail , but it isn't long enough to say he was a good coach and it looks like he chose not to continue on the coaching path

next up the iconic Tony Jewel

Tony Jewell (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23311

If you go off his stint at the Saints and the second stint with us you'd say Jewel was a poor coach
But the Saints were a basket case at the time , two wooden spoons , poor playing list , and they would water the ground to stop blow outs
then in 86/87 we were woeful
before coaching us in 79 he was coaching Caulfield in the VFA and did well with them

I would put he was a good coach , but without the cattle you have no hope

Francis Bourke - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23309


now with Bourke making a Grand final you would say he was a good coach , that might have been due to the quality of players and the "exodus of players" is telling
I think having not cut his coaching teeth elsewhere first was telling.

Could Bourke developed into a good coach with the right support around him ? Maybe , but we'll never know.

Mike Patterson

Mike Patterson (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23312

Again the stints at Saints , Frankston and Tigers make Mike look like a poor coach
he got two SANFL premierships , but as mentioned before , was at the Saints during a poor era for them
At Frankston , they didn't have the quality list that Preston, Port and Geelong West did but were bloody hard to beat - I'd say that was a sign of good coaching
then to us during our Dark Ages

By 1984 I was in Canberra and news of Richmond there was non existent so can't comment on his departure as coach

Paul Sproule

Paul Sproule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23313

I have no knowledge of Paul's Tassie coaching days , but from the win / loss they can't have been shockers
interesting another to stop coaching after coaching us !!!

Kevin Bartlett

Kevin Bartlett (Australian rules footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23314
KB takes over a wooden spooner and gets 8 wins for the season only to sink back to wooden spooners again
and then to continue to be a bottom 4 type side , he bemoaned a lack of players , facilities and support from the board
I did know a guy that was a skills coach when Royce Hart was coaching Footscray , he said "champion player , not a coach"
was that the issue with KB ? We'll never know

Alan Jeans

Allan Jeans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23315

Now Jeans was a good coach , I need some help here , did he step aside citing health reasons ?
Maybe age or timing coaching saw him lose hunger
but another to not coach after coaching us

John Northey

John Northey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23316

Under Northey our climb out of the cellar started and the first of the 9th finishes
I think Northey's coach credentials are best judged on his time at Malb. & us as we know the Swans were a total
basket case at the time , they were grabbing players out of the Canberra league to top up
and despite getting a finals appearance with the Bears the club was plagued with Offield and culture issues not of his making
Northey is one that went onto coach after us , but like so many others did not leave on good terms

Robert Walls

Robert Walls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23317

Walls was a premiership winning coach with the Blues
but then had 4 seasons with the party time bears
I recall a conversation with Rodney Eade saying what a mess the Bears were culture wise
I would put he was an ok coach with a good team but struggled with a moderate side
another that gave coaching away after us

Jeff Gieschen

Jeff Gieschen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 23318
on the surface Gieschen might appear to be a moderate coach , but he did well in the Ovens and Murray league and took our seconds to a premiership
so was his coaching record above a reflection of the quality of the teams he had ?
another to not coach after us

Sadly they all achieved nothing with us and afterwards. Early success by some was just a spike from in Bourke's case the inherited list from the 80 premiership side and with the exit of players he was never going to bring us back. He was actually a poor communicator and a poor coach imho. Northey wasn't sacked as he left for greener pastures.
Jewell failed on his second stint and Walls was like a lot of premiership coaches that go to other clubs and top up their Superannuation fund.
Unfortunately back in those days we were broke and not a destination club as we became a basket case. Also assistants weren't as popular as today with all the support a coach today gets. They in reality only had one man bloke under them who had little say as well as having smaller Footy Departments in comparison to today.
The reality is whether we kept those coaches on longer or not the outcome would've been the same as proven we needed financial stability and not debt to start being successful. Even up to 2016 we were still finding our feet , but we were out of a financial crises and we had the money to pay for quality in our FD in all areas to support Hardwick.

 

[ceehook2]

on the coaching support staff
in ? 2005 i was at the SCG for the half time Auskick , I had to return the gear to a room under one of the stands
I had to stop while the Swans coaches box went out for 3/4 qtr time
I counted 12 assistants plus the coach , I can only guess they were line coaches , opposition analysis , stats people etc
maybe a couple of hangers on but it shows what a big deal the AFL is these days

 

[CarnTheTiges]

on the coaching support staff
in ? 2005 i was at the SCG for the half time Auskick , I had to return the gear to a room under one of the stands
I had to stop while the Swans coaches box went out for 3/4 qtr time
I counted 12 assistants plus the coach , I can only guess they were line coaches , opposition analysis , stats people etc
maybe a couple of hangers on but it shows what a big deal the AFL is these days

I agree with you about Jeans being a good coach. He did step down due to health. It was why he also left Hawthorn and also took a year off when coaching them and Allen Joyce coached them to a Premiership.

 

[ToraToraTora]

If I know anything about Richmond history it is this.
Massive spikes of huge success followed by......you know the rest.

 

[TigerForce]

Gotta love the fake Richmond supporters calling SEN......FO pricks.

 

[daniel30]

Stupidity this topic coming up. His in a rebuild with alot of cooked senior players and fair few not pulling their weight either. His played the kids , but you get patches from them in games. Football department been let down for me and really needs a review and revamp top to bottom.

 

[Sintiger]

Our major issues are we don't have the star players in the young talent at the same stage. This is why we have to hit the draft and nail it.
Other issues is we are an ageing list so injuries increase and form leaves players because they can't perform at the great heights anymore.
Other problem is of the 15 premiership players on the list about 8 were role players during our success and were only good when the superstars were carrying the team.
Injuries is a only a minor issue now, but it's just talent is gone in the senior players and most of the young guys are very average.

We can see that with 20/20 hindsight but when Dimma took over including his first draft we had Cotchin, Martin, riewoldt, Rance and Edwards.
Cotchin and Martin were blue chip talent, obvious from day 1.
Rance was known as calamity Alex, raw talent but erratic. Noone knew he would be the best fullback of this generation
Jack was promising but young and raw
Edwards was a mid 20s pick, bagged a lot by supporters here and elsewhere as Shank Edwards
We also had Lids of course
Grimes and Astbury hardly got on the park early in their careers. Our draft hands were compromised by the giants and the suns.
We don't yet know how good our young players will be. We can make judgements but the judgements many were making about some of our future stars then turned out to be very wrong.

 

[ceehook2]

the intensity of the role VFL/AFL head coach is huge

and I fear for Yze is he doesn't turn things around quickly next year

 

[Tiggy Train]

We can see that with 20/20 hindsight but when Dimma took over including his first draft we had Cotchin, Martin, riewoldt, Rance and Edwards.
Cotchin and Martin were blue chip talent, obvious from day 1.
Rance was known as calamity Alex, raw talent but erratic. Noone knew he would be the best fullback of this generation
Jack was promising but young and raw
Edwards was a mid 20s pick, bagged a lot by supporters here and elsewhere as Shank Edwards
We also had Lids of course
Grimes and Astbury hardly got on the park early in their careers. Our draft hands were compromised by the giants and the suns.
We don't yet know how good our young players will be. We can make judgements but the judgements many were making about some of our future stars then turned out to be very wrong.

That's right so we need to nail the draft and hope we can get guns as we all know it can be a raffle. Hindsight or not you can't win flags if you don't have the players. Alot of our players are in their 3-5 season and don't have the class or leadership of most of the names mentioned above. Kane is the only real hope for me .
Dow is rubbish
Sonsie is a long way off, but could be a B grader
Brown is just a good kick, but nothing more atm . Still could be a B grader
Ross is a role player and ok
Junior looks promising, but still a work in progress
Clarke unknown
Coulthard is rubbish
Gibcus looks like an A grader, but development is back 2 years
Mansell is a c grade role player
Ryan is rubbish atm and i have no confidence in him
Cumberland is rubbish
Trezise a good role player. B grade at best
Banks is a long way off and i see a c to B Grader if we're lucky
Fawcett unknown
Colina delist material
OHB has potential
LeFau is a B grader role player
Bauer is injury prone and unknown
Campbell looks good, but has massive disappearing acts. Could get to A grade
Young is rubbish
Steely is meh at best
Smith looks great and could be the surprise packet
Blight i think is a potential A grader with Gray also

So I think the cupboard is bare atm and we really need to nail the drafts over the next 3 years. The biggest mistakes list managers and coaches make is over rating their list and keeping players too long and we have that situation ATM.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

We can see that with 20/20 hindsight but when Dimma took over including his first draft we had Cotchin, Martin, riewoldt, Rance and Edwards.
Cotchin and Martin were blue chip talent, obvious from day 1.
Rance was known as calamity Alex, raw talent but erratic. Noone knew he would be the best fullback of this generation
Jack was promising but young and raw
Edwards was a mid 20s pick, bagged a lot by supporters here and elsewhere as Shank Edwards
We also had Lids of course
Grimes and Astbury hardly got on the park early in their careers. Our draft hands were compromised by the giants and the suns.
We don't yet know how good our young players will be. We can make judgements but the judgements many were making about some of our future stars then turned out to be very wrong.

Remember the bagging that Houli and Grigg got when we first recruited them, too.