911 Truth Movement

[Baloo]

But if a serious reply will make you sleep better, I rally against the conspiracy theory that the US Gov, or GOD or whoever planned, executed and covered this whole 9/11 thing up. It's so ridiculous that I sometimes think you must be taking the *smile*. Even believing the US knew 911 was about to happen so they stood by and let it happen in the stuff of The Onion.

I really haven't made any comment on individual pieces of "fact" unless they are tied into the massive conspiracy.

I've also said if your stance was that the US Govt worked to stop the commission finding out about it's failings before, during and after the events, we'd all be agreeing. That in itself should demonstrate do I don't the commission report to be a book of absolute fact.

 

[Disco08]

OK then, are there any specific parts of it you think are dishonest?

Do you honestly think Hanjour was capable of flying the route UAL77 took? Do you think the hijackers overpowered the pilots and all got into the cockpit within a 5 second window?

 

[Baloo]

Do you honestly think Hanjour was capable of flying the route UAL77 took? Do you think the hijackers overpowered the pilots and all got into the cockpit within a 5 second window?

Much more likely of that happening than the US Govt or GOD orchestrating 911.

I have no idea. I am not an expert in flying a commercial airline and while 1 or 2 people who would have a better idea ridicule the thought, plenty more accept it. As a layman I'll go with the weight of numbers.

If these suspicious facts were really as far out of touch with reality that us mug punters could see the obvious, then there would be a much bigger uproar over it. There would be investigative reporters the world over chasing these stories nonstop in the hopes of being the one to expose everything. It would make the career of any serious investigative reporter in a massive way.

But there isn't.

Harry will say its because they are scared, couldn't be bothered, patriotic, but that's crap. There isn't the focus a real conspiracy deserves because there isn't one.

 

[Mikee]

we could have saved 52 pages with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l47D5ISemds

Pretty hard to ignore all those anomalies...i agree with you Harry, definately a cover-up of the highest order & surely was/is an inside job.

 

[Rosy]

That might be relevent if all Hanjour had to do was fly a straight line into the Pentagon.

How does anyone know for a fact who was flying the plane? How does anyone know Hanjour wasn't just perpetuating a myth he couldn't fly? How does anyone know what training was undertaken? Harry reckons there wasn't even a plane involved. Have you questioned him on that?

Your link finished asking "The above brings up a question about the Pentagon impact. How could a first time flyer who "could not fly at all" fly faster and more precisely than a NASA research pilot who'd had numerous practice flights at his objective?"

The answer would be he couldn't....but how could Hanjour be considered a first time flyer and how he could not fly at all when the one thing that doesn't seem to be in question is that he had a pilot's licence.

Who were they referring to then? The plot thickens...........

 

[Disco08]

Much more likely of that happening than the US Govt or GOD orchestrating 911.

I have no idea. I am not an expert in flying a commercial airline and while 1 or 2 people who would have a better idea ridicule the thought, plenty more accept it. As a layman I'll go with the weight of numbers.

If these suspicious facts were really as far out of touch with reality that us mug punters could see the obvious, then there would be a much bigger uproar over it. There would be investigative reporters the world over chasing these stories nonstop in the hopes of being the one to expose everything. It would make the career of any serious investigative reporter in a massive way.

But there isn't.

Harry will say its because they are scared, couldn't be bothered, patriotic, but that's crap. There isn't the focus a real conspiracy deserves because there isn't one.

Can you show me the air traffic controllers and pilots who confirm that a pilot with no hours in any large plane could have flown that route?

How much more suspicious can you get that the cockpit door not opening?

If there's one thing money and power controles it's the media. If you don't want to look at the actual evidence yourself and objectively try and analyse it, why bother even discussing 9/11? We're better off just agreening that your proconceived notions of what should and shouldn't be make even the most convincing evidence redundant and leaving it there.

 

[Disco08]

How does anyone know for a fact who was flying the plane? How does anyone know Hanjour wasn't just perpetuating a myth he couldn't fly? How does anyone know what training was undertaken? Harry reckons there wasn't even a plane involved. Have you questioned him on that?

Your link finished asking "The above brings up a question about the Pentagon impact. How could a first time flyer who "could not fly at all" fly faster and more precisely than a NASA research pilot who'd had numerous practice flights at his objective?"

The answer would be he couldn't....but how could Hanjour be considered a first time flyer and how he could not fly at all when the one thing that doesn't seem to be in question is that he had a pilot's licence.

Who were they referring to then? The plot thickens...........

As I said, I don't know who was flying. That's the problem. The OR is contradicted yet again by the case evidence.

This was Hanjour's first attempt at flying a large aircraft. This is a totallt different propect than flying a Cessna which he was reportedly very poor at.

I posted a link with consolidated evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon for Harry yesterday.

 

[Disco08]

OK then, are there any specific parts of it you think are dishonest?

 

[AngryAnt]

Pretty hard to ignore all those anomalies...i agree with you Harry, definately a cover-up of the highest order & surely was/is an inside job.

Watched a five minute Youtube video - CASE CLOSED

 

[evo]

I posted a link with consolidated evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon for Harry yesterday.

So it kinda makes the speculation about Hanjour redundant, doesn't it? You acknowledge a hijacked American Airliner hit the Pentagon.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Can you show me the air traffic controllers and pilots who confirm that a pilot with no hours in any large plane could have flown that route?

How much more suspicious can you get that the cockpit door not opening?

If there's one thing money and power controles it's the media. If you don't want to look at the actual evidence yourself and objectively try and analyse it, why bother even discussing 9/11? We're better off just agreening that your proconceived notions of what should and shouldn't be make even the most convincing evidence redundant and leaving it there.

What evidence? What have you presented that is so irrefutable that it doesn't require interpretation? Have you shown categorically that these things you present can only be seen one way? No. Have you presented irrefutable evidence that Hanjour couldn't fly? No. Have you presented irrefutable evidence that the route taken was beyond Hanjour's ability, or that he was solely responsible for the route flying freehand? No.

 

[Baloo]

If there's one thing money and power controles it's the media. If you don't want to look at the actual evidence yourself and objectively try and analyse it, why bother even discussing 9/11? We're better off just agreening that your proconceived notions of what should and shouldn't be make even the most convincing evidence redundant and leaving it there.

Do you know any investigative reporters ? I know a few including one that recently left his employer so that he could publish/expose the subject of his 4 year long investigation. His employer wasnt aware he was researching this piece as he was still doing hs job for them. His employer refused to publish or allow him to while working for them. He quit. It's not uncommon. To think reporters wouldn't be all over this if there was something really there is naive to the extreme.

Why don't I waste time looking at the evidence ? Because i have better things to do. It doesn't interest me that much. It's a US issue. If there was a deep dark conspiracy in an way I'm confident it woud have been exposed by now so I won't waste my time trying to disprove something that doesn't exist.

Why bother discussing it ? I'm discussing because the idea that grown intelligent people believing that 911 is a US Gov or GOD planned, executed and covered up multi government, international, multi agency, globa media, local authority collaborated event is something that astounds me. As I said, I'm discussing the concept and thought behind this massive conspiracy more than the event.

If you don't want me to discuss that with you, just say so.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

So it kinda makes the speculation about Hanjour redundant, doesn't it? You acknowledge a hijacked American Airliner hit the Pentagon.

This is where my confusion comes from. Disco wants to discuss specifics of minute parts of the events that only a very privileged few have ever had direct experience of, and none of them are on this board.....(or are they?) and backs up his assertions with information from 911 conspiracy websites yet claims he isn't advocating a conspiracy. I don't get it?

 

[Rosy]

Do you honestly think Hanjour was capable of flying the route UAL77 took? Do you think the hijackers overpowered the pilots and all got into the cockpit within a 5 second window?

How could any us have a reasonably informed, honest idea what the situation was? We can read all the reports and links and claims and counter claims and conspiracies and debunkings and side with whatever version we choose but we're still clueless as to the facts. The honest answer would be I can think till the cows come home but I still wouldn't have a clue. It seems to me people go out of their way to concoct conspiracy theories.

 

[tigertim]

we could have saved 52 pages with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l47D5ISemds

That was funny. I liked the bit inferring that the Pentagon was hit to cover up Rumsfelds $2.4 trillion loss......which he,d announced the day before! That's some bad organising Donald!

Of course we really do know the truth about 911.

The US government allowed 19 hijackers to crash 4 planes with prior knowledge so that the US government could take over the world and spend trillions of dollars on a war that would make powers above the president a lot of money yet send the Us onto the path of fiscal disaster. (Or the US government used grey fighter panes....or the towers were holograms...or there were no planes....we,re not sure yet.) oh sorry, planes werent flown into the Pentagon or Shanksville, they planted a bomb at the Pentagon (or shot it with a missile) and, well we haven't come up with a reason for Shankville yet...give us a few more years)

The US government decided to pull out of the drawer a 40 year old document called Northwood and use this as a blue print so that they could allow this to happen which in turn allowed them to go to war. Because its better to allow thousands of your own citizens die as an excuse to go to war. This has happened on many occasions before.

Th US government planted detonations in the 2 world trade towers just to make sure they'd collapse after planes did or didn't fly into them. And also in tower 7 because ...well again we,re not sure why they blew up tower 7. All the detonation companies involved in setting up these detonations have been detonated so as to leave no witnesses.

The US government knew they could proceed with immunity knowing that the opposition and future governments wouldn't investigate because it would be impossible to explain this to the US people and the US would never recover from such news.

Traders also knew of the impending terror and an inordinate amount of "put options" were placed on the 2 airlines in the days prior. All of these traders have had the sense to keep quiet over their windfalls. Oh, the Jewish community also knew. Oh, and of course everyone within the government knew so thats why so no government workers were killed...except for the ones that were.

The Bush family struck a deal with the Bin Laden family for Osama to accept responsibility. He was paid many millions for his work but they just wish he would have put some of it towards better quality videos.

The passenger list for the planes that didn't strike Pentagon and Shanksville were actually just the cast and crews names of the show Frasier. Completely made up.

The 19 Arabs that didn't fly these planes (or did they...I'm getting confused!) we're just patsies that used to work in McDonalds Tehran. They thought they were flying to the opening of the new McDonalds in Phoenix. Suckers. But that's if they even existed. Which they didn't. No, wait they did.

The phone calls made from the plane by the passengers were also created by the FBI boys over a few beers. They had a laugh making those. "There's terrorists on the plane. I'm sorry, I love you. Bye". Gold.

Barry Jennings died mysteriously 8 years after the event. A mysterious case of cancer. FBI infected him with it to shut him up about how he heard explosions when 300000 tones of building fell nearby. Oh and how he didn't see any bodies in tower 7. But stepped over them.

Herry Silverstein was also in n the act. He knew it was coming so insured his buildings. Why he would insure his buildings that were valued for billions is the smoking gun right here! How blatant.

Of course the orchestrator old Georgie Bush, well he knew it was coming. He'd been warned that terrorists were planning a terror act involving planes (but if only the terrorists would have been kind enough to give the time and date, well it would have been much easier!) but of course terror attack possibility is such a rarity in the US. So he ska dallied down to old Florida town to see Jed and have a laugh about how they'd take over the world and make millions. He was so cunning that when informed of the terror attack he'd hold his book upside down just to look stupid. Then he'd sit there for 20 minutes because that would make him look, we'll not stupid, but calculating. Hhhmmmm.

Eyewitnesses to the attack were plants supplied by "the media" who were all in on it too. There's one example where an eyewitness ( a real one, not one of the plants) said that it was a 737 that flew into the pentagon but the tv station cut his mike off mid sentence. Proof of the media cover up.


And on and on it goes. A masterpiece of covering up involving:
Government staff at all levels.
The US airforce
Stock traders
Flight tower staff.
Detonation companies
Us army
"The media"
The Jews
NYFD
Lorry Silverstein
George Bush
Donald Rumsfeld
*smile* Cheney
FBI staff
CIA staff


Among others in the perfect cover up in the history of all cover ups. We should be congratulating them for such co-ordination and planning!

 

[Disco08]

So it kinda makes the speculation about Hanjour redundant, doesn't it? You acknowledge a hijacked American Airliner hit the Pentagon.

Yep. I don't see how that makes any evidence redundant though. Isn't it best to just judge the evidence on its merits and try and draw conclusion after? If the evidence condradicts the OR isn't that cause to possible re-investigate?

 

[tigertim]

How does anyone know for a fact who was flying the plane? How does anyone know Hanjour wasn't just perpetuating a myth he couldn't fly? How does anyone know what training was undertaken? Harry reckons there wasn't even a plane involved. Have you questioned him on that?

Your link finished asking "The above brings up a question about the Pentagon impact. How could a first time flyer who "could not fly at all" fly faster and more precisely than a NASA research pilot who'd had numerous practice flights at his objective?"

The answer would be he couldn't....but how could Hanjour be considered a first time flyer and how he could not fly at all when the one thing that doesn't seem to be in question is that he had a pilot's licence.

Who were they referring to then? The plot thickens...........

This gif shows him with a commercial pilots licence for a 737. That's a big plane isn't ?


http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Hanjour_Commercial_Rating.gif

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=737+plane&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RrwBUfOrLq2eiAfk1oHgDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=672

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Yep. I don't see how that makes any evidence redundant though. Isn't it best to just judge the evidence on its merits and try and draw conclusion after? If the evidence condradicts the OR isn't that cause to possible re-investigate?

When do you stop the merry-go-round though Disco? Do they have to put Disco on the investigation team? Let's say you're satisfied but then Harry says "I'm not convinced" then where do we go? Or they show you all the video and classified info, and you're satisfied but it's classified so no one else get to see it. These endless questions don't lead to an outcome, they perpetuate a feeling of distrust and doubt without resolution.

 

[tigertim]

Reading all of the conspiracy theorists and their associated theories makes me think of Life of Brian.

Newcomer: "Is the People for 911 Truth?"

Member; "*smile* off! We,re the 911 truths for People"

Newcomer: "oh sorry, I'm looking for People for 911 truth. They believe George Bush organised 911?"

Member : " pfft, George Bush organised it! What a load of crap. Mister, everyone knows it was "powers above Gergie Bush" that organised 911. You want Peoples Front for 911 truth. They're in ward 12"

 

[Disco08]

When do you stop the merry-go-round though Disco? Do they have to put Disco on the investigation team? Let's say you're satisfied but then Harry says "I'm not convinced" then where do we go? Or they show you all the video and classified info, and you're satisfied but it's classified so no one else get to see it. These endless questions don't lead to an outcome, they perpetuate a feeling of distrust and doubt without resolution.

Of course not. Put qualified, independent invetigators and experts on the investigation team.

What reason could they possibly have to make any of the evidence surrounding 9/11 classified?

This gif shows him with a commercial pilots licence for a 737. That's a big plane isn't ?


http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Hanjour_Commercial_Rating.gif

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=737+plane&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RrwBUfOrLq2eiAfk1oHgDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=672

Had he ever flown a plane larger than a Cessna?

How could any us have a reasonably informed, honest idea what the situation was? We can read all the reports and links and claims and counter claims and conspiracies and debunkings and side with whatever version we choose but we're still clueless as to the facts. The honest answer would be I can think till the cows come home but I still wouldn't have a clue. It seems to me people go out of their way to concoct conspiracy theories.

You don't think there's any evidence at all that's worthy of further investigation?

To all of you, how is supporting the type of investigation that should have happened in this first place advocating a wider conspiracy? I've already said I'd accept any finding of an independent inquiry that had full subpoeana power and proper transparency. If those findings support the OR narrative, I'll happily accept that. Until that happens though, I'm of the opinion there are far too many holes and untruths in the OR and too many questions left unanswered.