911 Truth Movement

[tigersnake]

Or it was "the Vulcans".

Good post. The Vulcans theory is ludicrous. I believe it could well have been the Gorn though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdUSnaQM

 

[evo]

This is even without going into any of the logistical problems of smuggling tons and tons of thermite in, somehow attaching it to steel beams embedded in concrete, then devices to hold the burning thermite to the girders as they burnt, then attaching the hundreds of kilometres of wiring and electrics to fire the thermite, then somehow synchronise the thermite reactions so columns are neatly burnt in consecutive floor order from the plane crash sites down so they pancake precisely, and all this in an evironment with burning jet fuel and crashed planes etc etc etc

|Hehe. It is *smile* ludicrous, isn't it.

 

[RfC77]

Some interesting thoughts, but I think in some sense you are a step behind. In my opinion this is a fairly limited view of the way the political zeitgeist is evolving via the media in recent times. It neglects to consider that other forms of media, primarily the internet, are rapidly altering how news and views arrive to us. I mean, I can't remember the last time I bought a newspaper, it must be years. Clearly I'm not the only one given that print media sales are plummeting - Fairfax just moved to being a small paper in a last most likely futile effort to generate more sales.

Rather than setting news flow and disseminating propaganda, the mainstream media is actuality gradually losing control of the public mind. 911 Truth movements and other websites of similar ilk with sometimes bizzare worldviews are rapidly penetrating the mainstream.

And I suspect your guys at the CIA know this better than anyone. People should begin to consider the idea that, rather than unearthing government plots, a number of these 'truth' movements may in fact be government backed themselves. It seems to me this thread demonstrates it beautifully: more information can often mean greater obfuscation.

Typing all this out is 1 thing but saying it in person is another, hence why i tended to give summarized thoughts on the topic - i don't think any of us can cover all areas but I suppose the opportunity to share views is what's important. Granted there are other sources of media besides commercial ones which are reaching more people, there's no doubting that at all. What I have noticed over the years is that people here are becoming increasingly distracted by junk content within the media, this distraction IMO is deliberate and calculated. Once upon a time after work you'd turn on the tv and watch the news, a sports show,or a doco, then switch it off and go to bed..the tv didn't rule your life. Moving on..The CIA over the years has morphed into something far more sinister than simply a government agency. IMO They no longer represent the interests of Americans, they are collaborators(along with other political/non political groups) who are part of the so-called "illuminati" movement. Admittedly at present nobody really knows for sure about who is part of this movement..there are indicators and theories based on events/groups/individuals but 1 thing is for sure, elected governments are not in control of the ship. The truth movements you refer to I do - The UN council, i believe are one of it's many faces, but at present nobody really knows for sure about this movement The truth movements you refer to are mostly likely to have been infiltrated by government agencies because of the anti-government stance.. Sun Tzu - know your enemy.

 

[evo]

Good post. The Vulcans theory is ludicrous. I believe it could well have been the Gorn though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdUSnaQM

:hihi Laughed hard when the rock hit him.

 

[evo]

What I have noticed over the years is that people here are becoming increasingly distracted by junk content within the media, this distraction IMO is deliberate and calculated. Once upon a time after work you'd turn on the tv and watch the news, a sports show,or a doco, then switch it off and go to bed..the tv didn't rule your life.

Agree with that.

Moving on..The CIA over the years has morphed into something far more sinister than simply a government agency. IMO They no longer represent the interests of Americans, they are collaborators(along with other political/non political groups) who are part of the so-called "illuminati" movement. Admittedly at present nobody really knows for sure about who is part of this movement..there are indicators and theories based on events/groups/individuals but 1 thing is for sure, elected governments are not in control of the ship. The truth movements you refer to I do - The UN council, i believe are one of it's many faces, but at present nobody really knows for sure about this movement The truth movements you refer to are mostly likely to have been infiltrated by government agencies because of the anti-government stance.. Sun Tzu - know your enemy.

I'm not sure about the 'Illuminati" but I think there is some veracity to the belief that there are people more powerful than parliaments/congress behind the scenes basically running things.

 

[RfC77]

I'm not sure about the 'Illuminati" but I think there is some veracity to the belief that there are people more powerful than parliaments/congress behind the scenes basically running things.

Definitely!! That name is a "coined" term given to those who are effectively in control, who exactly are those people? well Bill Gates has been touted as one of them and rightly so - his actions speak for themselves.

 

[tigersnake]

Definitely!! That name is a "coined" term given to those who are effectively in control, who exactly are those people? well Bill Gates has been touted as one of them and rightly so - his actions speak for themselves.

Kind of yes but mostly no. As for 'who exactly are those people?', I don't think there are 'exact people'. its to nuanced to explain here, there is volumes and volumes or examples of powerful INTERESTS influencing government. There are powerful individuals that come and go that represent those interests sure. A famous quote is 'whats good for GM is good for America'. The recent stoush over mining tax when the industry heavies basically told a democratically elected government how much it would allow it to tax them.

BUT there are instances, numerous if you read pluralism or liberalism, when government acts in opposition to powerful interests (can't think of an example off the top of my head, but the arguments are sound).

THEN there is the fact that powerful interests are often not homogenous or aligned, and so do battle with each other.

And so it goes, Etc etc. For me alarm bells ring when there is any suggestion of some kind of stable, ongoing star chamber that pulls the strings.

 

[evo]

And so it goes, Etc etc. For me alarm bells ring when there is any suggestion of some kind of stable, ongoing star chamber that pulls the strings.

Yeah, I guess. Besides even if there is a stable ongoing group, us plebs would be the last to know.

the Bilderberg Group is pretty suss. But who knows.

 

[Disco08]

Mr. Jones' article (that's right, no doctorate) has been thoroughly debunked. After the publication and subsequent controversy around the Jones article the university politely negotiated a retirement package for him. Of course this could also be construed as being due to political pressure from the Vulcans, Romulans or whoever. By the way, Jones has also written extensively about the compelling evidence from Mayan ruins about Jesus Christ's visits to South America. Anyway, it's ad hominem, so let's take a look at some of the methodological problems around Jones' approach. CBF typing them all in so read this

https://sites.google.com/site/911guide/jones

This is even without going into any of the logistical problems of smuggling tons and tons of thermite in, somehow attaching it to steel beams embedded in concrete, then devices to hold the burning thermite to the girders as they burnt, then attaching the hundreds of kilometres of wiring and electrics to fire the thermite, then somehow synchronise the thermite reactions so columns are neatly burnt in consecutive floor order from the plane crash sites down so they pancake precisely, and all this in an evironment with burning jet fuel and crashed planes etc etc etc

Would suggest your next port of call is the Nils Harrit thermite paper, rack it up and I'll knock that one down too.

Forgive me if Jones' firing from BYU doesn't convice me of his incompetence. Places such as that don't enjoy the controversy limelight.

This is a talented award winning scientist.

The required elements for thermite were present in other objects that could have contaminated the evidence? Where they fused together the way unignited nano-thermite is?

The criticts won't respond to Jones' paper because of $30?

He made an error using the "hot core" photo as evidence? So what? He admitted the error and retracted it right?

The dust sample came from a room where a guy may or mot not have welded from time to time and that might have created iron spheres? LOL. Was the sample contained or left sitting in an uncovered bowl?

If you want to see a more detailed discussion about thermite and analysis of different samples, see this discussion thread at JREF forum. People over there are anonymous, but their analysis are valid. :rofl

Seems to me the simplest thing to do would be to test his theories with a group of independent experts. NIST should have done that long ago anyway.

The central support columns of the twin towers were encased in concrete? Really?

Controlled demolition companies have had remote ignition technology for ages.

Cutter charges (devices that are attached to steel girders to cut them) have existed since the 1950's.

How hard can it be to get the cutter charges in if no one's watching and you've got plenty of time?

That's a fair misrepresentation. There's plenty of evidence to support the theory of foreknolwedge. What counter evidence is there? What evidence is there tying the hijackers to OBL? What's this much simpler theory that satisfies all the known evidence?

 

[Disco08]

Good post. The Vulcans theory is ludicrous.

There's a theory of the Vulcans? Can you explain it?

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Forgive me if Jones' firing from BYU doesn't convice me of his incompetence. Places such as that don't enjoy the controversy limelight.

Seems to be evidence (by your standard) for suspicion of his reliability.

This is a talented award winning scientist.

Here is me thinking you judge scientists by their research and publications, not their awards. What were they for?

The required elements for thermite were present in other objects that could have contaminated the evidence? Where they fused together the way unignited nano-thermite is?

It is always folly IMO to discuss scientific matters if you are not trained in the field you are discussing.

The criticts won't respond to Jones' paper because of $30?

Sometimes responding to nonsense lends it legitimacy. It is often better to ignore it.

He made an error using the "hot core" photo as evidence? So what? He admitted the error and retracted it right?

Now this is very disingenuous, he didn't make an error, he made a very unscientific assumption (to support a position rather than a critical cold scientific examination of the facts) and continues to claim it is contentious rather than admit it was completely fallacious.

The dust sample came from a room where a guy may or mot not have welded from time to time and that might have created iron spheres? LOL. Was the sample contained or left sitting in an uncovered bowl?

Good questions you would think an "award winning scientist" would have squared away by now.

If you want to see a more detailed discussion about thermite and analysis of different samples, see this discussion thread at JREF forum. People over there are anonymous, but their analysis are valid. :rofl

Discussions of the science by non-experts is pointless. Neither you nor I are thermite experts so it is moot IMO

Seems to me the simplest thing to do would be to test his theories with a group of independent experts. NIST should have done that long ago anyway.

So he has made his sample available for testing has he? Excellent, should be easy enough to settle it, what took so long?

The central support columns of the twin towers were encased in concrete? Really?

Don't know, were they?

Controlled demolition companies have had remote ignition technology for ages.

Yup, but surely the big ol' planes are more compelling and are in evidence and undisputed.

Cutter charges (devices that are attached to steel girders to cut them) have existed since the 1950's.

You have seen evidence that is undisputed that these were attached to the WTC have you, where is that evidence (not conjecture, not 911 URL websites, not historycommons, actual physical evidence), when was it planted, who planted, all this is more likely than the live evidence of the planes that hit the buildings?

How hard can it be to get the cutter charges in if no one's watching and you've got plenty of time?

Don't know, have you ever tried?

 

[tigertim]

He made an error using the "hot core" photo as evidence? So what? He admitted the error and retracted it right?

If you want to see a more detailed discussion about thermite and analysis of different samples, see this discussion thread at JREF forum. People over there are anonymous, but their analysis are valid. :rofl

It's amazing when Bush, Rumsfeld, Silverstein, BBC et al make a slip of the tongue or error and the theorist is all over it as "evidence" of complicity. But when when someone the theorists admires makes an error it's "so what".

And the :rofl ? as you said to me, a new low Disco! :rofl

 

[tigersnake]

There's a theory of the Vulcans? Can you explain it?

Very complex and confusing, Masons are Vulcans (all have undergone earplasty, some photos of post-plasty scarred heavy-hitting masons, including many of the European royals, do exist if you go looking), and have been secretly trying to destroy the planet so they can come in and restore it after wW3 and look like the good guys and conquer by stealth.

The Gorn conspiracy on the other hand is very simple. They launch occasional ad-hoc attacks from the mirror universe to keep humanity divided in order to pave the way for conquest when power is consolidated in their own universe.

 

[tigersnake]

The central support columns of the twin towers were encased in concrete? Really?

I didn't think there was a central support column? All the stuff I've read on the TTs have centred around the revolutionary design which is the support being in the outer walls. That was my understanding.

 

[Disco08]

244 central columns snake.

Seems to be evidence (by your standard) for suspicion of his reliability.

Here is me thinking you judge scientists by their research and publications, not their awards. What were they for?

It is always folly IMO to discuss scientific matters if you are not trained in the field you are discussing.

Sometimes responding to nonsense lends it legitimacy. It is often better to ignore it.

Jones' reliability was good enough to see him earn his Physics degree with distinction and win these awards. Here's his profile page at BYU.

Thermite is made a certain way. That's not in dispute nor do you need to be a scientist to understand it. Feel free to answer the question with that in mind.

Do you have a physics degree? You'd need to to be labelling Jones' studies as nonsense. Otherwise statements such as yours would be folly eh?

Now this is very disingenuous, he didn't make an error, he made a very unscientific assumption (to support a position rather than a critical cold scientific examination of the facts) and continues to claim it is contentious rather than admit it was completely fallacious.

Good questions you would think an "award winning scientist" would have squared away by now.

The page critisizing Jones says he retracted his claim. Either way plenty of other evidence exists to support the fact there was molten steel found in the twin towers' rubble.

The obvious way to store dust would be in a container with a lid. That sh!t gets blown away very easily.

Discussions of the science by non-experts is pointless. Neither you nor I are thermite experts so it is moot IMO

So he has made his sample available for testing has he? Excellent, should be easy enough to settle it, what took so long?

Are the anonymous posters at the JREF forum experts?

NIST has their own samples of WTC dust surely. Why don't they test those and prove thermite or evidence of its use wasn't present?

Don't know, were they?

Yup, but surely the big ol' planes are more compelling and are in evidence and undisputed.

You have seen evidence that is undisputed that these were attached to the WTC have you, where is that evidence (not conjecture, not 911 URL websites, not historycommons, actual physical evidence), when was it planted, who planted, all this is more likely than the live evidence of the planes that hit the buildings?

Don't know, have you ever tried?

Of course not. I can see how it could easily be done with time and access though. Can't you?

No I haven't seen evidence of cutter charges being attached to the WTC. What a bizarre response to the statement I made.

Plane impacts didn't bring the towers down. Fires did apparently but many experts can't see how and point out numerous flaws in both the method and findings of the official reports.

Ant made the claim about the columns, not me.

 

[Disco08]

Very complex and confusing, Masons are Vulcans (all have undergone earplasty, some photos of post-plasty scarred heavy-hitting masons, including many of the European royals, do exist if you go looking), and have been secretly trying to destroy the planet so they can come in and restore it after wW3 and look like the good guys and conquer by stealth.

The Gorn conspiracy on the other hand is very simple. They launch occasional ad-hoc attacks from the mirror universe to keep humanity divided in order to pave the way for conquest when power is consolidated in their own universe.

So in other words you thought so and no.

 

[Disco08]

It's amazing when Bush, Rumsfeld, Silverstein, BBC et al make a slip of the tongue or error and the theorist is all over it as "evidence" of complicity. But when when someone the theorists admires makes an error it's "so what".

And the :rofl ? as you said to me, a new low Disco! :rofl

Laughing at that is low? Why?

 

[tigersnake]

So in other words you thought so and no.

That is quite disrespectful of my beliefs Disco. 1 step away from calling me a tin foil hat wearer. Which particular part of the Gorn conspiracy do you reject and why?

 

[tigertim]

Laughing at that is low? Why?

No idea, I was just imitating your post from when I used it.

 

[Willo]

Over 2,000 posts.

Who is winning? Or is it a stalemate?