2013 Election Year Party Policies- Labor

[Willo]

As I said I think September is a fait accompli so I don't think there is any point talking about Rudd Gillard Shorten et al. deck chairs on the Titanic and all that. My point was just that Gillard isn't this demon lady who stole government off the people, or if she is she has Kerr and Fraser as contemporaries. It will be after the defeat and the soul searching that might prompt a change. I don't expect a Howard style cash bonanza, they don't have the dough and I'm not quite that cynical. I think talk of austerity is a massive over-reaction. Because we missed much of the pain of the GFC our industries didn't get the chance to cut staff and wages and bad debt the way our competitors did. That is what is hurting us at the moment IMO.

Disagree with the Kerr/Fraser analogy. Certainly Kerr sacked Whitlam and Fraser took over as caretaker PM for a month or so. He then won government in his own right with a 55 seat majority. No comparison with Gillard. None whatsoever.

Austerity measures to be a massive over-reaction? We'll see mate.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Disagree with the Kerr/Fraser analogy. Certainly Kerr sacked Whitlam and Fraser took over as caretaker PM for a month or so. He then won government in his own right with a 55 seat majority. No comparison with Gillard. None whatsoever.

Austerity measures to be a massive over-reaction? We'll see mate.

Well you'll see. I'll be OS for a few years. But I'll be watching.

 

[lamb22]

Oh woe is us.

Inflation 2%, RBA cash rate 3%, lower than any time under Howard, Fraser, Mcmahon Gorton or Holt, credit rating triple A from all agencies - never more credit worthy in our history, Unemplyment 5.4%, manufacturing jobs INCREASED last financial year, yield on ten year bonds under 3%, under Howard Commonwealth 10 year bonds were over 6% meaning debt servicing cost ratio doubled.

What a pack of economically illiterate, pea brained whingers the majority of Australians appear to be.

As an example a couple making $50,000 each with two kids and 300k mortgage are about $17,000 better off since labour took office:

Income Tax cuts on 50,000 income x 2 = $4000
Interest savings on cut from 6.75 to 3.00 = $5000
Ave Wage increase last 5 years (18%) over inflation (11%) = $7,000
School kid bonus (1 sec and 1 primary) = $ 1,200

Total $17,200

If they had a new kid - paid parental leave 18 weeks mom 2 weeks dad - over 10k, if kid in child care 30% rebate increased to 50% = heaps

Cost of living issues - pfffft more cost of luxury issues

 

[Tigers of Old]

I agree lamb. I think Australia's woes are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe. In fact globally we are in bloody good shape.
However I guess people feel they need to complain about something.
If I was given a cast iron guarantee by the Libs that life would be much better under their governance that would be great but Abbott so far is offering us nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

'All in good time' he says. :blah

Meanwhile let's talk about Kevvy's push for the leadership and how pathetic this Labor Government is.

Surely if we say it enough the sheep will believe us.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Nothing in politics is a certainty!

There is a long way to go until September and Abbott will trip up - how badly is the question.

I can remember Hewson losing the "unloosable" election.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Oh woe is us.

Inflation 2%, RBA cash rate 3%, lower than any time under Howard, Fraser, Mcmahon Gorton or Holt, credit rating triple A from all agencies - never more credit worthy in our history, Unemplyment 5.4%, manufacturing jobs INCREASED last financial year, yield on ten year bonds under 3%, under Howard Commonwealth 10 year bonds were over 6% meaning debt servicing cost ratio doubled.

What a pack of economically illiterate, pea brained whingers the majority of Australians appear to be.

As an example a couple making $50,000 each with two kids and 300k mortgage are about $17,000 better off since labour took office:

Income Tax cuts on 50,000 income x 2 = $4000
Interest savings on cut from 6.75 to 3.00 = $5000
Ave Wage increase last 5 years (18%) over inflation (11%) = $7,000
School kid bonus (1 sec and 1 primary) = $ 1,200

Total $17,200

If they had a new kid - paid parental leave 18 weeks mom 2 weeks dad - over 10k, if kid in child care 30% rebate increased to 50% = heaps

Cost of living issues - pfffft more cost of luxury issues

Why is this message so hard to find? Why is it that I don't hear it, day after day from my TV news reel? Why do I keep hearing from people that cost of living is strangling them? I am a grunt in a service industry, I don't earn much (did get long overdue increase last year), my wife earns a bit more. We live pretty well in Melbourne, the fourth most expensive city in the world. So why is the voice of the nay-sayers and the opposition so much more pervasive and accessible than the government?

 

[Willo]

Oh woe is us.

Inflation 2%, RBA cash rate 3%, lower than any time under Howard, Fraser, Mcmahon Gorton or Holt, credit rating triple A from all agencies - never more credit worthy in our history, Unemplyment 5.4%, manufacturing jobs INCREASED last financial year, yield on ten year bonds under 3%, under Howard Commonwealth 10 year bonds were over 6% meaning debt servicing cost ratio doubled.

What a pack of economically illiterate, pea brained whingers the majority of Australians appear to be.

As an example a couple making $50,000 each with two kids and 300k mortgage are about $17,000 better off since labour took office:

Income Tax cuts on 50,000 income x 2 = $4000
Interest savings on cut from 6.75 to 3.00 = $5000
Ave Wage increase last 5 years (18%) over inflation (11%) = $7,000
School kid bonus (1 sec and 1 primary) = $ 1,200

Total $17,200

If they had a new kid - paid parental leave 18 weeks mom 2 weeks dad - over 10k, if kid in child care 30% rebate increased to 50% = heaps

Cost of living issues - pfffft more cost of luxury issues

Maybe any gains have been swallowed up in the cost of living. I notice there wasn't any list of cost of living increases. I wonder why.
Cost of living issues-more cost of luxury issues.
Dunno about you lambchop but cost of living to me mean, electricity, water land rates, insurances, fuel etc. They're necessities in life. I'm not blaming all the exhorbitant rises on the Feds, but they do have some influence

I agree lamb. I think Australia's woes are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe. In fact globally we are in bloody good shape.
However I guess people feel they need to complain about something.
If I was given a cast iron guarantee by the Libs that life would be much better under their governance that would be great but Abbott so far is offering us nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

'All in good time' he says. :blah

Meanwhile let's talk about Kevvy's push for the leadership and how pathetic this Labor Government is.

Surely if we say it enough the sheep will believe us.

It seems that there are plenty of "sheep" saying it already ToOheys. Even within the Labor government they're admitting if the polls stay similar they're out on their arse. If they're doing such a sterling job, why can't they sell that to the populace? If it's just a media/Murdoch/Fairfax conspiracy why can't they put their record on the line. Oh that's right they are.

It seems there are still a few who have fond memories of Kev. Even from 12 months ago some didn't want Gillard or weren't confident in her. Sure not a majority but there were still some malcontents within her own party. What's that tell you? Are you saying that there definitely won't be any push to chop Gillard if things don't change? Now they're rolling out the line how important Kev is to them come election day. Even some who knifed him (ie Crean) can now see some value in having Kev onside.

 

[tigergollywog]

Oh woe is us.

Inflation 2%, RBA cash rate 3%, lower than any time under Howard, Fraser, Mcmahon Gorton or Holt, credit rating triple A from all agencies - never more credit worthy in our history, Unemplyment 5.4%, manufacturing jobs INCREASED last financial year, yield on ten year bonds under 3%, under Howard Commonwealth 10 year bonds were over 6% meaning debt servicing cost ratio doubled.

What a pack of economically illiterate, pea brained whingers the majority of Australians appear to be.

As an example a couple making $50,000 each with two kids and 300k mortgage are about $17,000 better off since labour took office:

Income Tax cuts on 50,000 income x 2 = $4000
Interest savings on cut from 6.75 to 3.00 = $5000
Ave Wage increase last 5 years (18%) over inflation (11%) = $7,000
School kid bonus (1 sec and 1 primary) = $ 1,200

Total $17,200

If they had a new kid - paid parental leave 18 weeks mom 2 weeks dad - over 10k, if kid in child care 30% rebate increased to 50% = heaps

Cost of living issues - pfffft more cost of luxury issues

Nice postin baby sheep barry rowlings.

BTW, hands up whose running a surplus (= money in the bank - (the mortgage + credit card))?

Nah, didnt think so.

 

[Willo]

Nice postin baby sheep barry rowlings.

BTW, hands up whose running a surplus (= money in the bank - (the mortgage + credit card))?

Nah, didnt think so.

Certainly not me.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Nice postin baby sheep barry rowlings.

BTW, hands up whose running a surplus (= money in the bank - (the mortgage + credit card))?

Nah, didnt think so.

:wavey

Hence the OS trip. And as I said I'm not a squillionaire, I'm not even a good saver and I'm certainly not a tight arse. But I live close to inner city Melbourne (no mortgage we rent) I eat out, and we have saved. All of this was possible in the economic conditions I'm being told make it impossible? So how did we do it?

 

[Tigers of Old]

It seems there are still a few who have fond memories of Kev. Even from 12 months ago some didn't want Gillard or weren't confident in her. Sure not a majority but there were still some malcontents within her own party. What's that tell you? Are you saying that there definitely won't be any push to chop Gillard if things don't change? Now they're rolling out the line how important Kev is to them come election day. Even some who knifed him (ie Crean) can now see some value in having Kev onside.

I guarantee Rudd will not be leader before the election unless the ALP want to be a laughing stock.

 

[lamb22]

Maybe any gains have been swallowed up in the cost of living. I notice there wasn't any list of cost of living increases. I wonder why.
Cost of living issues-more cost of luxury issues.
Dunno about you lambchop but cost of living to me mean, electricity, water land rates, insurances, fuel etc. They're necessities in life. I'm not blaming all the exhorbitant rises on the Feds, but they do have some influence

This post illustrates the problem labor faces. People dont understand numbers or stats.

In my post I set out the CPI over the last 5 years and SUBTRACTED it from wage increases to give a 7% NET REAL increase in wages.

People just dont understand what the CPI or what inflation means.

Pretty hard to have a decent discussion with someone when you quote CPI and then they quote back electricity when it is actually included in the CPI figure under the housing category.

Things like rates are local government taxes and are not included. Historically Australians are taxed at about 30 cents in the dollar - about 25% federal tax and about 5% state and local govt.

However because of the income tax cuts given by the ALP and a softening of company taxes and capital gain taxes because of the GFC the commonwealth tax take is at present around 22%, lower than any time under the Howard govt.

So the reality is we live in a low taxing, low cost of living, real wage and GDP growth increasing economy .

The links below might be useful in understanding cost of living.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/01/cpi-in-detail/

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/6401.0Main%20Features2Dec%202012?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6401.0&issue=Dec%202012&num=&view=

 

[KnightersRevenge]

This post illustrates the problem labor faces. People dont understand numbers or stats.

In my post I set out the CPI over the last 5 years and SUBTRACTED it from wage increases to give a 7% NET REAL increase in wages.

People just dont understand what the CPI or what inflation means.

Pretty hard to have a decent discussion with someone when you quote CPI and then they quote back electricity when it is actually included in the CPI figure under the housing category.

Things like rates are local government taxes and are not included. Historically Australians are taxed at about 30 cents in the dollar - about 25% federal tax and about 5% state and local govt.

However because of the income tax cuts given by the ALP and a softening of company taxes and capital gain taxes because of the GFC the commonwealth tax take is at present around 22%, lower than any time under the Howard govt.

So the reality is we live in a low taxing, low cost of living, real wage and GDP growth increasing economy .

The links below might be useful in understanding cost of living.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/01/cpi-in-detail/

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/6401.0Main%20Features2Dec%202012?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6401.0&issue=Dec%202012&num=&view=

So I ask again Lamby...Why is this story not being told? Where is the narrative from Canberra that drowns out the negative carping and economic hypochondria of conservatives and Murdoch press and their ilk who keep telling us things are dire? We are going to require "austerity" to recover. Big cuts needed to the public sector. The books are in such bad shape we are a basket case led by an illegitimate incompetent PM and Cabinet?

 

[lamb22]

So I ask again Lamby...Why is this story not being told? Where is the narrative from Canberra that drowns out the negative carping and economic hypochondria of conservatives and Murdoch press and their ilk who keep telling us things are dire? We are going to require "austerity" to recover. Big cuts needed to the public sector. The books are in such bad shape we are a basket case led by an illegitimate incompetent PM and Cabinet?

I dont have the full answer Knighter but this doco on the american media may shed some light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_lYGyIaK80

PS Not actually 3 hours long - runs for 100 minutes and then has further unedited interviews at the end

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I dont have the full answer Knighter but this doco on the american media may shed some light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_lYGyIaK80

PS Not actually 3 hours long - runs for 100 minutes and then has further unedited interviews at the end

Cheers mate, I'll have a look later.

 

[lamb22]

Knighter

Another clue enclosed:

http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport

This poll shows LNP leading 56/44 but in the qualitative analysis, respondents believe they WILL BE WORSE OFF under the LNP in relation to unemployment, interest rates, cost of living, health services, job creation, worker's rights, the environment, public services and the environment and here's the kicker THEIR OWN FINANCIAL SITUATION yet the group think and media perception of a govt in crisis bandied about means voters are likely to kick out the govt even though they believe they will be WORSE OFF.

Pass around the kool aid guys!

 

[Brodders17]

So I ask again Lamby...Why is this story not being told?

while it is far from entirely the media's fault it is pretty hard for Labour to sell their story when the mainstream media prints lies such as telling people the gov is stealing their money and the masses lap it up.

 

[Tigers of Old]

So I ask again Lamby...Why is this story not being told?

Gillard announces an election, News Limited focus* on her hipster glasses and Krudd's phantom challenge.

Pretty well said it all to me.

Any serious message Labor try to put out through that media business gets drowned out.

Where do the masses get most of their information from?

Uncle Rupert.

Unfortunately Abbott's not as pathetic as Romney and Julia's not as impressive as Barrack.

 

[tigergollywog]

:wavey

Hence the OS trip. And as I said I'm not a squillionaire, I'm not even a good saver and I'm certainly not a tight arse. But I live close to inner city Melbourne (no mortgage we rent) I eat out, and we have saved. All of this was possible in the economic conditions I'm being told make it impossible? So how did we do it?

Nice work KR. Im pretty sure youlle agree our respective situations reinforces my disregard for a national surplus. I am running a debt of around a $1/4m, but im probably worth about $3/4m if i sold the proverbial farm and all my machinery and stock. You are running a surplus, but, without wanting to offend, im assuming you are worth your savings in the bank and whats in your fridge?

Now going by Rupert and Livsy logic, your running a surplus, so you manage your economy better than me, cause im running a debt. But if you and I cashed in our chips and put 'em in a big pile on the bar where Livs and Rupert were having a quiet glass of house white, they would have no choice but to call the dirty little self confessed greeny 'a helluva good economic manager'.

again, nice work on the surplus and enjoy the holiday.

 

[Liverpool]

This poll shows LNP leading 56/44 but in the qualitative analysis, respondents believe they WILL BE WORSE OFF under the LNP in relation to unemployment, interest rates, cost of living, health services, job creation, worker's rights, the environment, public services and the environment and here's the kicker THEIR OWN FINANCIAL SITUATION yet the group think and media perception of a govt in crisis bandied about means voters are likely to kick out the govt even though they believe they will be WORSE OFF.

lamby....I have said before on here...people want Gillard/ALP out more than getting Abbott in.

Why people ask?

Simply because people just do not trust her or her Government.

Newspaper headlines about the Government taking over people's inactive bank accounts....a carbon tax forced onto people when it was not needed and the same people told there would not be one...internal bickering, especially regarding the leadership...unionisation getting more of a stranglehold on things (teachers, nurses, cops, etc) plus the union buddies like Shorten helping her run the show when the unions are pretty disliked around the place these days.....changing the visas and offshore processing regarding boat people and immigrants.....and then the constant moaning about Abbott being a sexist and misogynist.

People simply do not like her or her cabinet.

In 2007, the country was not in a bad financial position but Howard still got kicked out of office....why??
The people saw Rudd as new and fresh and had a bit of "hollywood" about him....twitter accounts, Kevin07 mottos and t-shirts, etc.

A Government is not solely looked upon by the people as whether they are financially stable.....sure, its an important aspect....but there are many other factors as well.