10,000,000 Cousins threads [Merged]

[Bennnny]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

Instead of getting Cousins invest in a post season review and root out the malaise that causes players to not kick properly.
Whilst we have not been the best club over the journey at drafting the players can play football at a high level.
The difference is the confidence factor.

Geelong proved that by making people talk thaqt things could change.

Richmond appears to have a lot of introverted players. Are they introverted off the field? Or is it just on the field.

Cousins thinks he is God and his behaviour is unlikely to change.

His behaviour has destroyed West Coast.

Carlton won't take him as Judd will completely crack it.

Whose next after them?

 

[Tygrys]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

This is where I think you're wrong. If Cousins arrived in the off season, played some good footy in the first part of the year but then fell off the wagon, I don't think this would reflect badly on the club. Cousins having a dodgy past doesn't mean the Richmond Football Club has a dodgy past and him returning to his old ways would reflect badly on him, rather than on us - it would confirm him as a truly lost soul who is almost beyond help.

I think Richmond would be seen as a club that were willing to give him a second chance at playing football but that he was unable to make a go of it. His 'relapse' would not all of a sudden become our fault and as long as we have the relevant support structures within the playing group for our kids, then there is no reason to think they would follow in his footsteps. As I said earlier, I think we do - March, Wright, Miller and Wallace off-field, along with senior players Richo, Brown, Simmonds, Johnson, JBo etc on-field.

Firstly Richmond would not be giving him a 'second chance', bearing in mind his history it would be at least a third chance (remember the Weagles terminated him for multiple infringements of his renegotiated contract and agreement, the drugs in the car charge and the refusal to take a blood test were the straw that broke the camels back).

As for Richmond being seen in a benevolent light if he came to the club and he returned (assuming that he would ever have left) to his old ways - and again got caught or overdosed or run foul of the law. I'm sorry it just wouldn't work that way. The headlines would scream, the public opinion wouldn't be good on Richmond for having given him a second chance, it would be those perenial losers Richmond who in desperation drafted a druggie and got well and truly screwed.

That would be a best case scenario. If he overdosed or died, many people would wonder maybe this wouldn't have happened if he had concentrated on getting well, instead of throwing himself back into football, with all the pressures, media spotlight, and the temptations that stardom and a massive paycheck brings etc. The contrast then would be made between the Weagles that let him go to concentrate on getting well and straightening his life out (even though he was clearly still in their best 22), and Richmond that picked him up when clearly neither had happened. We would be labelled as selfish, gullible and irresponsible - and the brand name would be badly damaged.

That said I do agree I don't think the other players would follow his example in using illicit drugs or be unduly influenced by him in that respect (they would well and truly be warned of the consequences beforehand. But as for the rest...again just picture the potential headlines if Cousins jumped off the wagon. If he was a 20 year old, maybe just maybe it would be worth it...but not for a guy his age. Just crazy pure and simple.

 

[borninbridgeroad]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

What a delicious dilemma this is ???
I think his football is better than Judds, but he is an addict that is still in denial....a fact that only his lawers are benefiting from!
Saying that I voted yes...because I am desperate and I barrack for Richmond.

 

[ssstone]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

best onballer in the comp so i vote YES.have long been of the opinion that he is better than judd.yes i agree age and his recent history is an issue ,however i think that the risk is worth the punt.as for ben damageing the "BRAND" what a crock of *smile*.did angwin damage carltons "BRAND"? did kraks fisti cuffs damage our "BRAND"? did justin charles damage our "BRAND"? tygrys can you actually convey to me what our "BRAND "? is? :

 

[LachlanGrant]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

Yes

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

Voted no after a lot of thought.

Potential downside is too great. We're on wobbly legs at the moment, and if he goes down in a screaming heap... But if we see fit to draft him after doing our homework I'd support the move.

 

[Al Bundy]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

The AFL shafted us with the draw & treats us with disrespect so in return I hope the club states it wants to draft Cousins & that the AFL should not stop us in drafting such a talented player to the club.

Even state they could seek legal advise in conjuction with Cousins to challenge the AFL in court if they don't allow it.

Lets start creating waves like a gradual tsnaumi

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

The AFL shafted us with the draw & treats us with disrespect so in return I hope the club states it wants to draft Cousins & that the AFL should not stop us in drafting such a talented player to the club.

Even state they could seek legal advise in conjuction with Cousins to challenge the AFL in court if they don't allow it. 

They'd probably trot out their "player's welfare is paramount" line and put all sorts of stones in our path regarding the club's commitment to his treatment and recovery.

 

[ranger]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

That would be a best case scenario. If he overdosed or died, many people would wonder maybe this wouldn't have happened if he had concentrated on getting well, instead of throwing himself back into football, with all the pressures, media spotlight, and the temptations that stardom and a massive paycheck brings etc. The contrast then would be made between the Weagles that let him go to concentrate on getting well and straightening his life out (even though he was clearly still in their best 22), and Richmond that picked him up when clearly neither had happened. We would be labelled as selfish, gullible and irresponsible - and the brand name would be badly damaged.

Without football, he's more likely to go off the rails. Whether he's playing next season or not, he will still have fame and money. But if he doesn't play he will also have a huge void in his life that will need to be filled. Staying in the game and receiving a fresh start with a supportive club is the best thing for Ben Cousins.

And how much worse can our brand get? We are a laughing stock. The spitters, the chicken sh!t dumpers, the losers, the eternal rebuilders, the perennial 9th placers.

If we don't take him, someone else will and he'll be one of their best players and everyone will point and laugh at us again because we can't even grab a gun player when he falls in our lap for free.

That said I do agree I don't think the other players would follow his example in using illicit drugs or be unduly influenced by him in that respect (they would well and truly be warned of the consequences beforehand. But as for the rest...again just picture the potential headlines if Cousins jumped off the wagon. If he was a 20 year old, maybe just maybe it would be worth it...but not for a guy his age. Just crazy pure and simple.

If RFC handles the situation properly, it won't reflect poorly on us at all. West Coast were in denial for years about the problems with their culture. Richmond should be on top of it from the get go. Give Cousins all the support he needs to make a fresh start, but make it clear that if he does something stupid we'll be forced to let him go. He would have to know that would be the end of his career and I think he'll pull his head in and be a great influence on our team and push our rebuilding forward by a few years.

Of course, I've never spoken to Cousins and he may really be a lost cause. But if we interview him and he's keen to play on and his head's in the right place, then we'd be mad not to draft him. It's either him or Kepler Bradley.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

Firstly Richmond would not be giving him a 'second chance', bearing in mind his history it would be at least a third chance (remember the Weagles terminated him for multiple infringements of his renegotiated contract and agreement, the drugs in the car charge and the refusal to take a blood test were the straw that broke the camels back).

As for Richmond being seen in a benevolent light if he came to the club and he returned (assuming that he would ever have left) to his old ways - and again got caught or overdosed or run foul of the law. I'm sorry it just wouldn't work that way. The headlines would scream, the public opinion wouldn't be good on Richmond for having given him a second chance, it would be those perenial losers Richmond who in desperation drafted a druggie and got well and truly screwed.

That would be a best case scenario. If he overdosed or died, many people would wonder maybe this wouldn't have happened if he had concentrated on getting well, instead of throwing himself back into football, with all the pressures, media spotlight, and the temptations that stardom and a massive paycheck brings etc. The contrast then would be made between the Weagles that let him go to concentrate on getting well and straightening his life out (even though he was clearly still in their best 22), and Richmond that picked him up when clearly neither had happened. We would be labelled as selfish, gullible and irresponsible - and the brand name would be badly damaged.

That said I do agree I don't think the other players would follow his example in using illicit drugs or be unduly influenced by him in that respect (they would well and truly be warned of the consequences beforehand. But as for the rest...again just picture the potential headlines if Cousins jumped off the wagon. If he was a 20 year old, maybe just maybe it would be worth it...but not for a guy his age. Just crazy pure and simple.

Again great post. Agree 100% with everything you wrote.

Without football, he's more likely to go off the rails. Whether he's playing next season or not, he will still have fame and money. But if he doesn't play he will also have a huge void in his life that will need to be filled. Staying in the game and receiving a fresh start with a supportive club is the best thing for Ben Cousins.

I couldn't give a sh!t about Ben Cousins. He has made his own bed.
I care about the Richmond Football Club.
Ben Cousins does not.
He only cares about himself and he will *smile* up again.

If we don't take him, someone else will and he'll be one of their best players and everyone will point and laugh at us again because we can't even grab a gun player when he falls in our lap for free.

What happens if he goes to another club and ODs or worse?
They will feel the same fallout or worse.

If RFC handles the situation properly, it won't reflect poorly on us at all. West Coast were in denial for years about the problems with their culture. Richmond should be on top of it from the get go.

If we draft him we will not be on the get go at all.
We will be sending an impression to all our youngsters that as long as you are a good player, if you do drugs it's OK we'll give you a second chance.
You are not sending a good message to impressionable kids.

You will be endorsing a drug culture.

 

[SkunkDen]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

Deleted

Don't avoid the swear filter

 

[bowden4president]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

I just realised...I voted 'no' but then I pictured us playing Hawthorn and REALLY wanted him on our team

:headscratch i could also reconsider on such grounds :fing32

 

[Hello Newman]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

The one thing that stands out for me with this whole Cousins fiasco is that he's barely spoken publicly about his situation and we are all basing our opinions and beliefs on the tabloid journos who follow his every move and would stoop as low as necessary to get a story. And lets face it, the WA press, in cahoots with the Major Crime Squad were obviously determined to bury him once and for all. In the process Cousins has been portrayed as a smug, arrogant drug spoilt brat whilst none of us have heard his side of the story since his brief statement prior to his first stint in LA. When the dust settled on his recent arrest it appears that he had really done nothing worse than have an all nighter, be in possession of his prescription medication and pick up a couple of Ho's. Not unusual behaviour for someone grieving the loss of a close friend.

How different is Cousins situation now compared to when he played his last game for West Coast. In reality, not much, except that his reputation and standing in the community has taken a further battering. He was hung out to dry by the media, the Eagles and the AFL. Initially I thought yep, that's it he's gone for good now but when you think through the whole situation I think the guy needs another chance and the opportunity for a fresh start in Melbourne, and hopefully its in Yellow and Black.

If the Tigers were to pick him up, it would obviously have to be on strict terms. I also believe that they could turn it into a positive and give Cousins the opportunity to rebuild his shattered reputation and standing in the football world. I think the best course of action would be for him to confront his past head on and throw himself into as much community work and as many media appearances as possible. Imagine this, the reformed drug addict and football idol giving anti-drug presentations at schools and junior sporting organisations. With his profile and recent history the kids would have to take some notice. In my opinion this is his best hope of turning his life and football career around and returning to the AFL.

 

[ranger]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

I couldn't give a sh!t about Ben Cousins. He has made his own bed.
I care about the Richmond Football Club.
Ben Cousins does not.
He only cares about himself and he will *smile* up again.

I was responding to the other poster who said that Cousins needed to concentrate on getting well. Personally, I don't think he's an addict, just a guy who has a minor problem with recreational drugs. Just like the dozens of players that have been involved in drunken incidents are not alcoholics. Without football, he's more likely to fall into a dangerous lifestyle. His best chance of "getting well" is to keep playing.

What happens if he goes to another club and ODs or worse?
They will feel the same fallout or worse.

Again, i don't think his problem is that bad. If it was as serious as people make out then he'd have recorded positive tests and he wouldn't have been able to walk back into the WC team and be as good as he was. And at least Cousins history of drug use is out in the open and can be monitored. If you think he's the only guy in the league that uses recreational drugs, you're mistaken. The unknown players are more at risk than someone who will be closely watched like Cousins.

If we draft him we will not be on the get go at all.
We will be sending an impression to all our youngsters that as long as you are a good player, if you do drugs it's OK we'll give you a second chance.
You are not sending a good message to impressionable kids.

You will be endorsing a drug culture.

Not if it's done intelligently. We can endorse rehabilitation and giving people the chance to turn their lives around.

If you want to talk about sending bad messages to kids, then I think pretending someone is a drug addict while they can still dominate a game of football and are in perfect physical condition...that's a bad message. It's like, "Don't worry about getting addicted to drugs. You can still look great and whenever you decide to stop you can go right out and collect 38 possessions."

He's not a drug addict. He's a guy who parties hard and may not always make great decisions.

 

[Freezer]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

The one thing that stands out for me.....

.....With his profile and recent history the kids would have to take some notice. In my opinion this is his best hope of turning his life and football career around and returning to the AFL.

I couldn't have written a more accurate post in a thousand tries. Perfectly articulated.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

He's not a drug addict. He's a guy who parties hard and may not always make great decisions.

You have to be kidding me. :headscratch :headscratch

Haven't you been paying attention?

Explain if he doesn't have a serious problem with drugs why he was missing training sessions that lead to his 12 week suspension by his football club and a stint in rehab?

That doesn't sound to me like someone who's just popped the odd pill at a party. :blah

It may well have started out that way way back in good ol' 2002 when his name was first linked to drugs and the underworld but it is pretty obvious that his habit is now encroaching on his personal & professional life.
If he isn't already he is well on the way to addiction. Why else would he be returning to America for a second stint in rehab?

This guy has not been linked with pot or eccys, Cousins name has been linked with methampetimine (ICE).
Even just recently the passenger in Chick's car was said to be in possession of all sorts of drug paraphernalia.

That is hardcore drug use in anyone's language. To think otherwise is naive to the extreme.

 

[Bill James]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

He and others like him have almost destroyed the fabric of the eagles as a club and yet some want to bring him to ours, For what reason, so Lids can invent a personal reason to leave like Judd? So team-mates can start fighting one another? So assistant coaches can threaten to leave over the issue? So when we win the premiership and cousins jumps on the podium and acts like an idiot, our captain can stand there holding the cup looking like he wants to be anywhere else.

This has almost broken a strong club like the eagles, RFC could not withstand it.

 

[Tigion]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

no we dont need him whatever you opionon is of him simply because of list mangemnet we have 1 pick in PSD and it must be used on a tall

 

[momentai]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?

The AFL have put themselves in a very difficult position.

Andrew Demetriou is a very angry type who tends to shoot from the hip and in Ben's case it seems likely that he advised WC that Ben had breached his AFL endorsed contract, by again being involved in a drug related incident.

He would further have told WC that they were in breach of their own undertakings given to the Commission earlier this year and also faced sanction, not to mention a public backlash and that in these circumstances it would be best if they cut their ties to Ben as soon as possible.

A new young and inexperienced President fell for it and the rest is history.

There seems to me to be a pretty good chance that Ben's lawyer is correct and that there is a very good chance that come Jan the failing to give a sample charge will also be thrown out. I don't know what he has in mind and I am not familiar with the legislation but this was apparently the first charge to be brought under new legislation and typically there are often start up problems, which result in early acquitals. They stuffed up the valium charge which is very straight forward compared to a failure to give a sample matter, so anything is possible.

So Ben's lawyer has suggested legal action against WC and the AFL is under consideration. And Andrew and WC have now gone down that path also.

However the dates line up very nicely in Ben's favour as the registration for the PSD and indeed the draft, will take place before Ben's hearing, (and before that point in time where there is any chance that an adverse finding &/or a conviction will be entered against Ben.)

So while WC will be pissed Andrew has little room to move.

Ben's announcement that he wishes to resume his career at another club leaves the way open for his manager to begin talking with the AFL and the Tigers.

Ricky ..thanks for taking my call Andrew. Ben has asked me to speak to you and request that you don't block his registration. He wants to recover his health but believes the advice he has received that footy in the right enviroment is going to be a very important part of that. He has instructed his lawyers to pull back from legal action...

.. thanks for calling Ricky. We at the AFL have also put Bens interests first. We are concerned about recovery. Would he go in the PSD, the Tigers eh..good club likely to move up over the next two.., good culture, but the public reaction Ricky?

Let him register Andy, may I call you Andy?

Of course Rick.

The Tigers know what they are doing. They have links to the micks if you get my meaning ...

Of course Rick. Let me call Steve and see what they say but Ben may have to accept a cut. But yes I think we can probably get the registration problem out of the way especially if the Tigers have something in mind concerning rehab...and if there is to be no legal action maybe WC..

Of course Andy. Thank you so much...

 

[Dyer'ere]

Re: Cousins: The poll. Do you want the Tigers to draft Ben Cousins?


Demetriou sees himself as fair minded. The first card you'd play during your very short negotiations with the AFL would be the discrimination card. Drag em through the mud. Embroil the AFL in the whole thing. Paint them as the villains.

With the refusing a drug test charge unresolved and a lawsuit against the WA police likely the AFL would be hard pressed to win the hand.

So Demetriou folds. But when?

The logical thing to do would be to let the matter slide until after the PSD. Sure Cousins claims that the unresolved charge impedes his ability to negotiate a contract before the PSD. And there's exposure for the AFL but less clear cut. Muddy. Hard to find the villainy. And the matter might be remedied with a much smaller sum on the QT.

Unresloved matters seldom make headlines. Maybe Andy will let it slide.

But Demetrou is certain to fold IMO. It's only a matter of when.