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10,000,000 Cousins threads [Merged]

Will Ben Cousins Be Playing In The AFL Next Year?

  • Yes, At The Eagles

    Votes: 9 3.4%
  • Yes, At Another Club

    Votes: 92 35.0%
  • No

    Votes: 136 51.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 26 9.9%

  • Total voters
    263
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

As I understood it the police were after the dealer..... who has been charged and is serving a sentence... they weren't going to/couldn't charge those he was talking to.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

evo said:
rosy23 said:
Makes you wonder why the police didn't deal with it earlier.
Makes me wonder more why Woosha and the West Coast didn't deal with it.

Woosha said on the footy show he'd heard these tapes.They clearly imply that Kerr and Cousins were dabbling in Kentamine(whoosha is a pharmacologist,he would've known the implications of young people expirementing with horse tranquilisers).and all this as far back as 4 years ago.Kentamine is about as dangerous a drug as it gets.Kerr would've been 20 at the time of this tape.

Kerr and cousins subsequently got into a number of other 'indescrections' since- leading any normal person into coming to the conclusion that it was an ongoing problem.Running from cops,dealings with underworld figures,jumping on taxis,flatlining in Vegas,forging prescriptions etc.These are all documented by police and the media.

Appalling actions from a bloke responsibe for a group of well paid young and impressionable adults.
Like i said before Evo.The prime focus for Worsfold etc was a flag.No Cousins and kerr[and god knows who else] would have put a huge dent into those plans.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
Like i said before Evo.The prime focus for Worsfold etc was a flag.No Cousins and kerr[and god knows who else] would have put a huge dent into those plans.
Yes and as i said thats a given-but that hardly absolves him of responsibilty.If anything it makes it even more callous.

Rememeber he's had fairly reasonable 'evidence' that there were problems 2 years ago on this tape alone and that they had already stretched back 2 years prior.He then got further 'evidence' with all the other indescretions.

As Dyer're alluded to earlier,Woosha has obviously got word the last few days that the 'shyte was going to hit the fan'(media wise.)He reluctantly comes on the footy show to do a bit of explaining but more to try and absolve himself of blame(IMO)with some rubbish of 'well I asked xyz and he told me there was no problem,what else could i do?'-and people lap it up.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

evo said:
CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
Like i said before Evo.The prime focus for Worsfold etc was a flag.No Cousins and kerr[and god knows who else] would have put a huge dent into those plans.
Yes and as i said thats a given-but that hardly absolves him of responsibilty.If anything it makes it even more callous.

Rememeber he's had fairly reasonable 'evidence' that there were problems 2 years ago on this tape alone and that they had already stretched back 2 years prior.He then got further 'evidence' with all the other indescretions.

As Dyer're alluded to earlier,Woosha has obviously got word the last few days that the 'shyte was going to hit the fan'(media wise.)He reluctantly comes on the footy show to do a bit of explaining but more to try and absolve himself of blame(IMO)with some rubbish of 'well I asked xyz and he told me there was no problem,what else could i do?'-and people lap it up.
Dont get me wrong Evo.Im not defending Worsfold.His action [lack of more to the point] proves to me what people do to obtain success.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

evo said:
Appalling actions from a bloke responsibe for a group of well paid young and impressionable adults.

Spot on again evo.
I'd even go so far as suggesting the Eagles board should have the guts to sack him over this.
IMO Woosha has to take a large portion of the blame as to why two of his star players are effectively drug addicts and half his team appears to have dabbled in the stuff.

However as we don't know the true course of events he may very well have mentioned his concernes to the pres etc. far earlier and they've all decided to sweep it under the carpet.
Even if that were the case he should have looked after his players welfare far more.
Worsfold has zero credibility IMO and I wouldn't want my son playing for a club that was so cold regarding player's health in the name of success.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

evo said:
Which instances were you refering to?

I didn't mention specific instances and wasn't referring to any.  ::) Surely there were at least suspicions about certain people which could have led to a closer watch on their activities if the police thought they were warranted.  Before you question me on that comment too I'm not saying that is the situation, I wouldn't have a clue, but am just wondering.

Anduril mentions she had the opinion the police weren't going to charge those the dealer was talking to.  It seems that way to me too but I wonder if it might have been better if further action could/should have been taken on a legal basis.

Cracker said the police did take action.  It will be interesting to read what they did.

evo said:
Seeing someone suffering the effects of drugs is not enough to charge someone.

You don't say.   ;D

On the other hand you think Woosher should have done something but as the Weagles said in the paper today they aren't qualified to recognise the symptoms.  They had a player playing and training at an elite level and telling them he was travelling well.  Appearances can be deceiving when it seems the obvious effects of substance abuse didn't seem to manifest for a long time.

I really don't understand anyone wanting to lay blame.  It's a very serious problem that needs dealing with desperately, and a solution found to benefit everyone.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
Dont get me wrong Evo.Im not defending Worsfold.His action [lack of more to the point] proves to me what people do to obtain success.
Yes,I gathered that mate,wasn't having a go at you.Was just using your post to launch into more dyertribe. >:D

;D
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

evo said:
CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
Like i said before Evo.The prime focus for Worsfold etc was a flag.No Cousins and kerr[and god knows who else] would have put a huge dent into those plans.
Yes and as i said thats a given-but that hardly absolves him of responsibilty.If anything it makes it even more callous.

Rememeber he's had fairly reasonable 'evidence' that there were problems 2 years ago on this tape alone and that they had already stretched back 2 years prior.He then got further 'evidence' with all the other indescretions.

As Dyer're alluded to earlier,Woosha has obviously got word the last few days that the 'shyte was going to hit the fan'(media wise.)He reluctantly comes on the footy show to do a bit of explaining but more to try and absolve himself of blame(IMO)with some rubbish of 'well I asked xyz and he told me there was no problem,what else could i do?'-and people lap it up.

Agree.....add to this that Worsfold's qualifications are in pharmacy. When you combine the evidence, his position as coach and quals.......well......difficult to believe that he didn't know!
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

rosy23 said:
evo said:
Which instances were you refering to?

I didn't mention specific instances and wasn't referring to any. ::) Surely there were at least suspicions about certain people which could have led to a closer watch on their activities if the police thought they were warranted. Before you question me on that comment too I'm not saying that is the situation, I wouldn't have a clue, but am just wondering.

Anduril mentions she had the opinion the police weren't going to charge those the dealer was talking to. It seems that way to me too but I wonder if it might have been better if further action could/should have been taken on a legal basis.

Cracker said the police did take action. It will be interesting to read what they did.

evo said:
Seeing someone suffering the effects of drugs is not enough to charge someone.

You don't say. ;D

On the other hand you think Woosher should have done something but as the Weagles said in the paper today they aren't qualified to recognise the symptoms. They had a player playing and training at an elite level and telling them he was travelling well. Appearances can be deceiving when it seems the obvious effects of substance abuse didn't seem to manifest for a long time.

I really don't understand anyone wanting to lay blame. It's a very serious problem that needs dealing with desperately, and a solution found to benefit everyone.
Fair enough.

I don't buy Wooshas explaination though.It'll be interesting to see if the media remain so forgiving.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Maybe they should just make it open slather and do away with testing altogether. They've *smile* ed around with every other aspect of the game.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Richmond United said:
Agree.....add to this that Worsfold's qualifications are in pharmacy.  When you combine the evidence, his position as coach and quals.......well......difficult to believe that he didn't know!

Can't see the relevance of a Pharmacy degree if Worsfold didn't actually see players under the influence of certain drugs.  Both Kerr and Cousins are top level players and their form didn't indicate substance abuse.  I didn't notice anyone posting those players were on drugs when they were tearing the opposition apart racking up possessions at will.

Too many assumptions and accusations for my liking.  With the benefit of hindsight the Weagles (I don't like to single out the coach)  might have done things differently too.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

jb03 said:
Maybe they should just make it open slather and do away with testing altogether. They've *smile* ed around with every other aspect of the game.
Great idea JB.

Hall-72kg,s 2007
105kg,s-08
Meyer
68 [07]
95[08]

Jon
62[07
100[08]
:hihi :hihi :hihi :hihi
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

rosy23 said:
Can't see the relevance of a Pharmacy degree if Worsfold didn't actually see players under the influence of certain drugs. Both Kerr and Cousins are top level players and their form didn't indicate substance abuse. I didn't notice anyone posting those players were on drugs when they were tearing the opposition apart racking up possessions at will.

Not sure if you've ever witnessed someone under the effects of what these guys have effectively been using rosy, but it's very easy to tell the symptoms unless you turn a blind eye to it.
This has been going on for years and speculation has been rife in the West
... as if they wouldn't notice.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

rosy23 said:
Can't see the relevance of a Pharmacy degree if Worsfold didn't actually see players under the influence of certain drugs. Both Kerr and Cousins are top level players and their form didn't indicate substance abuse. I didn't notice anyone posting those players were on drugs when they were tearing the opposition apart racking up possessions at will.

Too many assumptions and accusations for my liking. With the benefit of hindsight the Weagles (I don't like to single out the coach) might have done things differently too.
Sorry Rosella but Worfold,s degree would be enough for him to detect drug abuse let alone the information he had through those tapes.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

In 1997 Justin Charles was found guilty of using the anabolic steroid, boldenone.

Anabolic steroids are banned from use in competitive sport. They are considered to be performance enhancing.

Boldenone, we were told, is a horse drug and not performance enhancing in humans. But humans use it illegally, in sports such as baseball. Is it recreational? Nup. Then why do they use it?

Charles was portrayed as a dupe who did not profit from any performance enhancement therefore he got a relatively light sanction.

If the player had been shown to be using steroids over a longer period, say a successful year prior to an injury-riddled year, the sanction would definitely have been harsher IMO.

Personally, I still harbour doubts about the thoroughness of the Justin Charles inquiry.

****



Leaving aside the intention of the user, cocaine and meth-amphetamine are performance-enhancing drugs, particularly the latter.

How could we measure the enhancement value? Well, you could only do it in a controlled study and then it'd have to be published. And the users are not keen to publish. Luckily the AFL will get to the bottom of all this.

It’s not necessary to demonstrate the improved performance to convict the player of using performance-enhancing drugs. There is simply not enough information available to do this. It is fundamentally an act of deception so there is a paucity of reliable information.

Further, it’s not like we vouchsafe players who use drugs but whose performance is not enhanced. Is it? If it doesn’t work, it’s their problem. Hey, it is any way you look at it.

Have you ever consulted with your doctor over the dosage of a prescription drug you're taking? Why would she ask the patient? Because humans are excellent self-medicators. You can nearly manage the drugs yourself after a short period.

People are often very good at deciding the appropriate dosage of drugs they are using. At least until the addiction kicks in. Then it's a disaster. We shouldn’t just assume that illicit drug users start their habits without control.

If a player were to use drugs like coke and ice, he would, at times, experience increased confidence and in the case of ice in particular, reduced effects of fatigue. This would be a clear advantage in play based on use of an illegal drug. Performance enhancement.

Not to say that there is no downside to performance enhancing drugs. Would they be banned if there were none? FWIW caffeine is no longer a banned drug.

You gotta come down from any drug- how's it feel with alcohol? There's a cost. As a rule, the stronger the drug the bigger the comedown.

In the case of stimulants, there could be sleep disruption. (Let's face it, there will be.) And with powerful stimulants, there can be depression, exhaustion and the horrors (anxiety, fear etc).

Can these symptoms be ameliorated with other drugs? Say, valium to sleep through the come down? A hair of the dog? Another stimulant with a depressant? There are treatments available from your local dealer. And sometimes even from your doctor.

All drugs are potentially addictive in some way. Even in the case of drugs that are defined as non-addictive (and ice, I believe, is one of them) there is often a clear pattern of increased usage and dependence. Psychological addiction is a huge factor.

So, users can lose control of the usage and the drug becomes ineffective. It can get out of hand and cease to be an advantage. Yeah, it's not a smart long-term strategy. That's another good reason to ban them.

Although use of illicit drugs is fraught with health risks and will probably detract from the performance of a player over time (may even do so from the start) that doesn't change their classification as performance enhancing. It's the very reason that they're banned.

The AFL must investigate the use of these drugs. They may have been used recreationally but they have recognised performance enhancement potential. Who’s to say which was the effect.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Yes,you have an interesting angle on this Jack.

I wont hold my breath on the AFL investigating properly said angle.But you never know.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Tigers of Old said:
Not sure if you've ever witnessed someone under the effects of what these guys have effectively been using rosy, but it's very easy to tell the symptoms unless you turn a blind eye to it.

I haven't seen the symptoms of those drugs ToO but I have of various other ones such as marijuana, heroin, LSD and speed.  I have also seen those same people a day or so later with no obvious signs they'd used any substances at all.

When do you think Woosher would have seen the boys under the influence?  I'm sure he wouldn't follow them out to nightclubs or gone around to their houses to see that they're snuggled up safely in bed each night.  I was under the impression, and could be well off the mark, that the giveaway behaviour that put things beyond all doubt was in more recent times and thus action has now been taken.

We had one player that I know of giving the night life a pretty hard time if you get my drift but as long as he trained and played ok the club would be quite onblivious to that fact.

CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
....let alone the information he had through those tapes.

How long has Woosher had access to the information on the secret police tapes?
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Forgetting Whoosher for a moment, I'm staggered that Rick Lewis made Demitriou aware of the liasons between the drug dealer and the WCE players implicated on the tape and rejected an investigation :eek:

Why?
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

rosy23 said:
CptJonno2Madcow2005 said:
....let alone the information he had through those tapes.

How long has Woosher had access to the information on the secret police tapes?
Cant remember exactly how long Rosella but he was aware of the problem well before they won last years flag.
 
Re: Ben Cousins in trouble again

Thanks Johnno. I thought they'd only been released this week.