Who should be tigers next coach

[Tassie27]

I agree with most of the comments that Dean has made. Unfortunately Richmond has a terrible history of sacking coaches when things look dim. This then begs the question, how on earth would any decent and available coach want to be appointed by Richmond, given that when things are looking bad he will be sacked. This "scapegoat" culture at Richmond really has to be turned around if we are to attract decent coaching personnel in future.

Yes I know Danny has been there for 4 years and not much improvement has been made in that time. But I don't think sacking the coach is in the best interest of the club in the LONG term.

 

[Danny]

Bob Hatfield from a Country Practice. That old fart is chear than the fabless four (previous RFC coaches) and has more heart or had more heart.... Then, wait for Sheedy in 2005.

 

[gustiger12]

Well if as promised, the club is very active during the draft and trade period, then I reckon we would be an attractive proposition to any coach come 2005.

We may even give it a fright in 2004 (the 8 that is)

 

[Rosy]

Just bringing this to the top in case Vadim is interested to read it.

 

[jackstar]

Mark Harvey, we need someone witha bit of Grunt !
I just hope the coach we get speaks like Dean Laidley did on the weekend " If you dont play my way you leave"

 

[hutstar]

I think Rampaging hit the nail on the head- couldn't agree more.
Just want to add- WE SACK THE MOST COACHES BECAUSE WE KEEP HIRING DUDS!
Please do not tell me that sacking coaches is symptomatic of the problem at Richmond. We have only one problem- we have sucked for 21 years, and if you suck for 21 years, you are going to go through a few coaches. Think Sheedy would still be at Essendon if they didn't keep performing?
In fact- can someone tell me the longest employed coach currently in the comp who has not one, or at least got his team to the GF? Look forward to the answer.

 

[hutstar]

bugger- 'won'
sorry :

 

[MC24]

Please do not tell me that sacking coaches is symptomatic of the problem at Richmond.

Hutstar, the problem is not necessarily that we continue to sack coaches, but because we make the Coach seem like the problem.

Therefore, people in other areas went without scrutiny and were not made accountable for the role they played.

That has been the biggest killer of our Club. Not the simple fact of removing coaches, but because we failed to look at the bigger picture and all the other areas that go to make a successful club.

 

[nwonash]

MC24, you hit the nail on the head. I totally agree with you.

There is a saying 'a tradesman is only as good as the tools they have to work with'.

The coach is not the problem, its the group of players that are on the field.

Brad Ottens recently said on Foxtel, that it was time players started to play to the coaches game plan and not play as individuals. Brad Ottens also said it was time that some players lifted and played for the team.

How true.

I guess people dont have the privilage of listening to the coach and the game plan and the instructions he has for each player. Yeah Danny does make some mistakes, but which coach doesnt make mistakes ?

I definately believe that its not the coach where the problem lies, its the player group that represent the Richmond Football Club.

Do you think Richmond you be stupid enough to sack another coach ? It would be extremely unlikely Richmond would be able to lure an exprienced coach with success to the club. And should we get an exprienced coach with success, what do you think they would do differently to win matches with the player group we have ? Further more, Richmond would have to pay out Danny Fawleys contract. Remember money does grow on trees and lets face it, its hard to make a profit in football these days. Richmond must remain financial if we are going to be successful.

 

[shawry]

MC24, you hit the nail on the head. I totally agree with you.

There is a saying 'a tradesman is only as good as the tools they have to work with'.

The coach is not the problem, its the group of players that are on the field.

Brad Ottens recently said on Foxtel, that it was time players started to play to the coaches game plan and not play as individuals. Brad Ottens also said it was time that some players lifted and played for the team.

How true.

I guess people dont have the privilage of listening to the coach and the game plan and the instructions he has for each player. Yeah Danny does make some mistakes, but which coach doesnt make mistakes ?

I definately believe that its not the coach where the problem lies, its the player group that represent the Richmond Football Club.

Do you think Richmond you be stupid enough to sack another coach ? It would be extremely unlikely Richmond would be able to lure an exprienced coach with success to the club. And should we get an exprienced coach with success, what do you think they would do differently to win matches with the player group we have ? Further more, Richmond would have to pay out Danny Fawleys contract. Remember money does grow on trees and lets face it, its hard to make a profit in football these days. Richmond must remain financial if we are going to be successful.

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

Glad someone else feels this way.

 

[tigerman]

Quote from: nwonash on Today at 12:30:48pm
Further more, Richmond would have to pay out Danny Fawleys contract. Remember money does grow on trees and lets face it, its hard to make a profit in football these days. Richmond must remain financial if we are going to be successful.

That's true.
But you might find that the clubs membership would increase by a couple of thousand if the right coach was appointed.
That extra revenue would help to pay out spuds contract.

 

[nwonash]

MC24, you hit the nail on the head. I totally agree with you.

There is a saying 'a tradesman is only as good as the tools they have to work with'.

The coach is not the problem, its the group of players that are on the field.

Brad Ottens recently said on Foxtel, that it was time players started to play to the coaches game plan and not play as individuals. Brad Ottens also said it was time that some players lifted and played for the team.

How true.

I guess people dont have the privilage of listening to the coach and the game plan and the instructions he has for each player. Yeah Danny does make some mistakes, but which coach doesnt make mistakes ?

I definately believe that its not the coach where the problem lies, its the player group that represent the Richmond Football Club.

Do you think Richmond you be stupid enough to sack another coach ? It would be extremely unlikely Richmond would be able to lure an exprienced coach with success to the club. And should we get an exprienced coach with success, what do you think they would do differently to win matches with the player group we have ? Further more, Richmond would have to pay out Danny Fawleys contract. Remember money doesnt grow on trees and lets face it, its hard to make a profit in football these days. Richmond must remain financial if we are going to be successful.

 

[UntamedTiger]

nwonash, your comments comments IMO are bit naive.

What comments would you expect to hear from players? They would all of course immediately toe the team/party line.

You highlight that we must be financial to survive, how is that to be done with a eye on our recent performances on field? I am sure the grinding, ugly, over possession, etc game plan/style they have played in the last couple of seasons, will not bring an increase in our membership and crowds thru the gates.

I made up my mind after leaving just before 3/4 time at the saints game, that something has to give. Unfortunately you cannot dump the all the duds in the list, but we can start by doing something. The style we play(we had more possessions than the saints and still lost by 80 points), is a clear indication that we are going nowhere fast. This game plan is what the coaching staff have implemented, hence they are accountable, and must ALL GO. In reply to your use of "'a tradesman is only as good as the tools they have to work with'. The core group of spuds, wheadon, crocks and hutch have been together now for 4 years and we all agree that they have put together a toolbox(list) and the style of play, is CRAP. Add to that, our consistent inability to identify the GOOD young players(the occasional exceptions like Cogs, Zantuck and Newman) and recruiting duds(Hudson, Houlihan, etc), the recruiting group should also be dumped.

NO untried coach should be taken on, we have done this with our last 2. I hate saying this, but IMO I do not think the pies are better off list wise, but they have ONE huge advantage over us and that is one Mick Malthouse. He takes no crap from anyone, it is his way and his way only. Their performances and position is very much a reflection of him.

The choice for the RFC is another year rotting near the bottom, playing this ugly brand of football and potentially face financial hardship via decreased memberships and gate takings. Or be proactive and pursue ruthlessly success. If we have to pay out Danny, then so be it. He should be embarrassed in taking the money.

Since the last game I have come to the conclusion that Wallace is our man. His record at a financially stricken club, his creativity and innovation(he was the only coach to beat Sheeds in 2000) with a limited list, is hard to ignore. Maybe with a long term view of improving the list, his immediate impact with our limited list, may provide us supporters with more hope and success, both in the short and long term.

 

[Koalalill]

MC24, you hit the nail on the head. I totally agree with you.

There is a saying 'a tradesman is only as good as the tools they have to work with'.

The coach is not the problem, its the group of players that are on the field.

Brad Ottens recently said on Foxtel, that it was time players started to play to the coaches game plan and not play as individuals. Brad Ottens also said it was time that some players lifted and played for the team.

How true.

I guess people dont have the privilage of listening to the coach and the game plan and the instructions he has for each player. Yeah Danny does make some mistakes, but which coach doesnt make mistakes ?

I definately believe that its not the coach where the problem lies, its the player group that represent the Richmond Football Club.

Do you think Richmond you be stupid enough to sack another coach ? It would be extremely unlikely Richmond would be able to lure an exprienced coach with success to the club. And should we get an exprienced coach with success, what do you think they would do differently to win matches with the player group we have ? Further more, Richmond would have to pay out Danny Fawleys contract. Remember money does grow on trees and lets face it, its hard to make a profit in football these days. Richmond must remain financial if we are going to be successful.

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

Glad someone else feels this way.

Don't forget Me

I sat down last night and looked at our list. We have 36 senior listed players and 3 rookies. When I went through the list I found only 26 of them I'd keep. The other 13 I would either de-list, have retire or trade in a perfect world. But this aint a perfect world - so in realistic terms we need to get rid of as many as we can - most probably 6-9.

I stand by what I have said before and am prepared to be howled down again for saying it. But the bottom line is that our current coach has never been in a position to re-build the list. Actually I don't think any coach has had that opportunity (except KB of course and that was because we were broke).

A Malthouse at Collingwood is allowed to do it but untried rookie at Richmond cannot. Our list isn't up to it. That is a fact. The players need to be made accountable. For far to long this Club has let the players rule the roost in that regard and now someone has come in and said you are all on notice - funny how some of them appear not to like it very much.

 

[Harry]

I stand by what I have said before and am prepared to be howled down again for saying it. But the bottom line is that our current coach has never been in a position to re-build the list. Actually I don't think any coach has had that opportunity (except KB of course and that was because we were broke).

A Malthouse at Collingwood is allowed to do it but untried rookie at Richmond cannot. Our list isn't up to it. That is a fact. The players need to be made accountable. For far to long this Club has let the players rule the roost in that regard and now someone has come in and said you are all on notice - funny how some of them appear not to like it very much.

I don't understand your comments KL.

Why hasn't Frawely been in a position to rebuild the list?

Your second paragraph doesn't make sense to me. You say that Malthouse is allowed to do it but a rookie coach at richmond isn't because our list isn't up to it. Don't understand.

Your comment about players ruling the roost - its the coaches responsibility to discipline the players - as Laidley said "you play my way or ..... see you later".

 

[UntamedTiger]

Harry, spot on about Laidley. His apprenticeship was done under one of the best - Malthouse. Frawley's apprenticeship was with who again?

 

[hutstar]

we would not have to pay Frawley out if he resigns, as he should. I doubt he would expect to be paid out given his go away clause was taken out only to relieve some of the pressure on him, which didn't help anyway. That being said, if he demands a payout, then we are stuck with him i'd say.

 

[Koalalill]

Why hasn't Frawely been in a position to rebuild the list?

Your second paragraph doesn't make sense to me. You say that Malthouse is allowed to do it but a rookie coach at richmond isn't because our list isn't up to it. Don't understand.

Your comment about players ruling the roost - its the coaches responsibility to discipline the players - as Laidley said "you play my way or ..... see you later".

Harry,

What I am saying is that when Malthouse went to Collingwood he was given free reign to do what he wanted. He wanted get rid of 20 odd players he was allowed to that and the members of that football club said "that's OK it is Malthouse". He is a premeirship coach.

If Danny Frawley walked in at Richmond and announced to the world "the list is crap and I am getting rid of 10 players" members of our Club would have said "you can't be serious - we have Campbell, Knights, Richardson, Ottens, *smile*, Daffy etc our list aint that bad". I do not believe Danny has every been in that position Harry. The administrations over the years at Tigerland have put players we have on pedestals that they do not deserve and paid them ridiculous amounts of money (eg Bourke, Daffy). They have overrated the list. I believe no Adminstration at the Club has had the guts to say it is OK if we try to re-build. It is always we need to make the finals - we need to get close we got give the members something.

Laidley has be given the freedom to re-build because the Kangaroos have an ageing list and there members have had 10 years of incredible success. So they are prepared to suffer a little bit and the people in charge at the Roos know it. We have had little success in the same period of time. So what have we done? We tried to fluke a flag in 2002 by thinking our list of players was better than what they were. Who's fault was that. Everyone's Harry - The Footy Dept (isn't it convenient that no-one ever mentions Trevor Poole our former Football Op. Manager - anyone ever think why he isn't there any more?), the Board everyone. And for the last 2 years we have paid for it big time.

I agree the Footy Department has made some shocking decisions in some of the players we have picked up. Houlihan, Hudson absoulete shockers. But nestled in their are the likes of Coughlan, Rodan, Krakouer, Newman and now Schulz and McGrath.

People question what's this support that Danny needs. How can you draft quality kids when there is only one person (Beck) going and watching them every week. To me that's embarrasing. If Beck by himself sees 20-30 kids say - well 3 means you'll get reports on at least 90. To have 3 or 4 people week going out looking at these kids that's the support they are talking about. Having some running the footy department who knows football and how to negotiate decent contracts without the Club being hamstrung - that's the support they keep talking about. It hasn't been there - now it is.

 

[UntamedTiger]

KL, I agree that the admin is also responsible, but clearly they would have relied on input from the football department.

If my memory is correct at the end 2000, the story was that Frawley personally take Ottens to Moorabin of where he would end up if he requested to leave the Tiges(after Saturday's game he may wished he did). Was it the same year or the next, that Holland had come to terms with the crows? The fact that both did not leave, would have been because Frawley would have highlighted to the admin they are required players. This to me suggests that he and his assistants obviously had a big say in the development of the player list. I partly agree with your argument that that he was not in the same position as Malthouse, purely on the fact that Malthouse was and IS a proven premiership coach, hence Frawley may have been a bit inhibited. But he has clearly had alot of input into the makeup of the list, there is no excuse in my view in his failure to build a list after 4 years, that can perform and play his game plan. The fact that his message is clearly not getting through, is a sign that his time is up.

 

[Roar34]

Hi Guys, I am new to this forum & have been very interested to read all the comments on this topic. I have suspected for a long time that there is some sort of destructive element in the makeup of RFC.
I saw my first Richmond game in 1939 and, believe me, the Tiges have always seemed to have an "eating their own" complex. I don't know how many coaches have come & gone in that time (but I am sure someone will tell me) and they, the coach, was always the first to go when things went wrong. If you think NOW is bad you should have been around in the period after 1947 (a semi final appearance) until middle 1960s...now, there was BAD!!! Even Ron Barassi advocated Richmond being dumped from the then VFL.
And then along came Hafey! But even 4 premierships couldn't save Tommy! And what have we had in the 27 years since? ONE flag & TWO finals appearances!
I have nothing against Spud as a person but he doesn't seem to be able to counter whatever ruse the opposing coaches get up to against us. He even publicly states what his game-plans are well before match time. At first I thought this was a ploy to throw the other team off the scent but, no, he went along with whatever he had stated...be it THE TWIN TOWERS (remember that one?) or the 3 small forwards against the Dockers, just because that had worked the week before.
I agree with Untamed & Koalalil, and I think that a lot of pruning has to be done before we sack the coach, but can we wait another year to see if the players accept Spud's game plan? I think not.
If we are to toss the coach out along with KL's hit list, let's get someone with a proven track record. I reckon Terry Wallace might like the challenge...we can't do any worse...and think of the bite he might give us after what he managed with the Doggie's depleted assets.
I vote for Terry's Tigers!