Who should be tigers next coach

[Rosy]

Rosy - I don't think that Danny should be there forever, but I do believe that the RFC must break the syndrome (and it IS a syndrome now) of automatically turning on the coach when on-field performances are poor. It is a symptom of the syndrome that some of you may not be able to cope with that. For some of you it is childishly simple: we're losing therefore sack the coach.

A bit offline there Deano. Have you seen one post on here where I've advocated sacking the coach?

It amuses me that certain people can bag players but come down on others for questiong the coaching or admin.

Sure some people are over the top and they are annoying. I find it just as annoying when people pretend things are wonderful around the club too.

To my way of thinking people have just as much right to discuss the coach as they do to discuss the players.

I've always said every aspect of the club should be reviewed post season imo, and I'll stick to that.

I can't believe the people who say the coach has nothing to do with our situation. He has to have some responsibility, he's in charge of the players.

I am dead against keeping someone on just to save face no matter what position that person holds at the club.

If the powers to be did think Danny wasn't up to it would you prefer to suffer another season like the last 2 because of some "syndrome?"

I am not saying it's the case, far from it. But I do think it's a fair topic to discuss on the boards and I would hope the club takes whatever action is needed to ensure our future success.

Go Tiges.

 

[MackTiger]

Does it matter who coaches us ?

We always seem to end up in the same hole that both players and staff constantly dig.

Few rumours this morning are.....

Sheedy to Richmond
Frawley to St Kilda
Thomas to Warranambool
Harvey to Essendon
Matthews to Hawthorn

 

[Rosy]

Hi Mack, Welcome to PRE....Sadly seems you are pretty spot on...

Different players, different coaches, different admin...same results. :'(

Bring on a year with no injuries, no media stuffups, no downward spirals, no conflicts, no dramas.

Just a smooth uneventful path to a premiership.

Geez us supporters deserve it.

 

[shawry]

I'm sticking with Frawley and still have got faith in him. I am not writing him off yet.

 

[Dean3]

Rosy - I did say "some of you", not just "you" which you chose to highlight. I wasn't necessarily including the Royal YOU in my comments ;D. Re-reading the thread you may notice quite a few people directing comments at me, so I was addressing others. Apologies if you took it that way.

I also don't advocate keeping on a rotten coach for skimpy reasons. But I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Danny is as bad a coach as the results show. Is Sheedy now a bad coach because the Bombers aren't winning?

What I'm saying is it has become "the Richmond way" to sack the coach when times are tough. Maybe it is time to swim against the tide and see where that takes us, instead of going with the flow that has seen us drift for 20 years.

 

[tigerman]

Dean3

I agree that we have some good structures in place now. However, Sampson, King, Sziller, Houlihan, Hudson, have done very little for this club. Those decisions have put us back 2 o 3 years. Spud being the Head Honcho of the coaching department has to take the blame for them.

I think making the finals once in four years is not good enough, especially when you look at what the magpies have been able to achieve in the same time.

I agree with you that sacking coaches just for the sake of it is not on but, but unfortunatley I don't think spud is quite upto it.

CARN THE TIGES!!!!

 

[Rosy]

Forgetting Royalty Dean, seeing you addressed that paragraph to me and spoke of "some of you" mere mortals could be forgiven for thinking you were including me in the sack Danny brigade and I've never once mentioned sacking anyone.

 

[UntamedTiger]

Dean3,

Change should not be restricted just to the playing list. The "football department" has essentially been together now for 4 years. In that time they have obviously failed to build a list that can consistently perform and make the eight, let alone compete and win a flag. What I have advocated is that they, players and fat player contracts, should not be immune from the impending BIG broom come season end. The appropriate decisions should be left to those with a more intimate knowledge of the club and that obviously have a say at the club.

Like you, many a tige supporter, am extremely disappointed at we have been watching, hearing and being told. Frankly, I am more annoyed at name calling, just today I read club administrators calling some supporters names (eg. loudmouths). As a paid up member, and have been for longer than I care to remember, I reserve the right to have an opinion and express it. This forum is better than any of general abuse and crap you hear on matchday. Where we part happily with our money at the start of every season, in hope of success, we have players, coaches and administrators, etc that receive good money regardless of their performance. It hurts us when we lose, obviously does not hurt them enough.

By the way Dean, thinking about the coaches we have had since 1980, which were hard done by or did not deserve to be dumpred?

 

[Dean3]

Hi Untamed Tiger, actually TigerFurious asked a very similar question earlier in the thread.

My answer is: how would I know? I'm only a supporter and member. I've got absolutely no idea who deserved to be sacked. Only those on the inside know the real story about any given coach. But I'll tell you this: if others deserved to be sacked, that does not mean that Frawley deserves it too. If you are inferring that I'm giving Danny unconditional support, well, that's just not true. I do know, however, that a coach that doesn't have the full support of those around him will always fail. Why make it a fait accompli?

I maintain that Danny should be fully supported to see out his contract. If there aren't signs of genuine improvement then, well we're quite entitled to not renew it. And if he were to resign before the contract expires, then there's nothing the club can do about that. I'd be fine with that too.

Perhaps I could turn the question around and ask: how has sacking the coach helped in the past?

 

[Koalalill]

Perhaps I could turn the question around and ask: how has sacking the coach helped in the past?

Good point Dean. The sackings in the past have only enhanced our reputation of being a Club that "implodes" in crisis rather than a Club that is strong and united. Why are we the media focus today? Because they want us to implode, so they can say "typical" Richmond. People speak of culture, our culture seems to dictate that the first thing we do in a crisis is sack the coach because he is the easiest target. Everytime we have done that others who should be accountable get off scott free. It hasn't solved the problem in the past - I doubt it will solve the problems this time

Don't think for a minute that I happy with our season - I am not. I am disappointed as everyone else but I don't see how "baying" for the coaches blood time and time again is going to help solve the inherent problems of this Club. Bondy on 3AW summed it up perfectly yesterday when he said that clearly Richmond after 2001 believed they were a helluva lot better than they were. The Board, to the Footy Dept, to we supporters believed we were so close to a premiership when we have now been shown we are a long long way off.

Our list isn't up to it. Even Leon Cameron said it Saturday night after the game. Can everyone seriously blame Danny for the fact that Tivva slipped over twice on the wing in the final quarter at crucial times when we were on control of the ball, or that 2 players (and yes one was Bidders) could not drag Chapman down in the goal square or that Richo was the only player who flew for that mark in the last 20 seconds?

Oh sorry I forgot - of course we can

 

[Rampaging_Richo]

Dean 3 said:
But I haven't seen much that represents a coherent argument about the direction of a football club.

Dean, I will have a little go at it. I may be a bit of track here but it is only my opinion...

In the 4 years that Danny has been senior coach he has had only one taste of some sort of success in 2001, and from that, he like many others grossly overrated our list, went the short term outlook on recruiting, left our list vulnerable with both a lack of depth and lack of truly skilled players and here we are in 2003 staring at our 8th straight loss after losing 9 in a row last year.

Now while injuries have hurt us as much as any other team in that time period, our constant lack of depth has been exposed time and time again with little done about it from a list management POV.

As part of this, recruiting has been talked about previously and has been pretty ordinary, with limited success with funding young kids with talent, and the ones who have some talent, there has been an inability by the coaching staff to harness this talent and turn them into regular senior players who contribute.

Where the club is headed. The best thing that Greg Miller has bought to the club is some outside perspective on the true state of our list, where it needs improving, who should be put up for trade etc….From this, I am confident that major improvements will be made to the list which will allow us to begin improving with the hope of being able to challenge for a flag in season to come. Duds will be delisted, constant underperforming high paid players will be traded or have fat contracts trimmed and the recruiting of some decent kids will occur. As well as some more trades in bringing quality players into the club ala Kane Johnson.

The coaching staff is the major concern, which I feel is being to easily brushed aside with the excuse of contracts being honoured. The fact is Richmond has probably the most predictable game plan going around, and most clubs/coaches have figured Richmond out and as such we are very beatable, as has been proven with our consecutitive loss record in 2002 and 2003. Additionally, our defensive (negative) game plan doesn’t allow us to score enough goals against good sides leaving us the precarious situation of trying not to lose a game rather than win it, which has proven to be unsuccessful.

Now if the tigers are to truly move forward and aim to rebuild for the next flag at Punt Rd, we need to get a new senior coach who has the brains to implement a game plan that will do the following that will allow us to improve and better utilise the talents we have at the club. More so, we need to reinvent the club as Danny appears to have lost all confidence in himself and his flawed game plan.

 

[PuntRoadRoar]

Sack Frawley, he has had 4 years thats long enough, we havent improved at all in that time.

Give me Wallace or Sheedy and see what they can do.

 

[MC24]

Bondy on 3AW summed it up perfectly yesterday when he said that clearly Richmond after 2001 believed they were a helluva lot better than they were. The Board, to the Footy Dept, to we supporters believed we were so close to a premiership when we have now been shown we are a long long way off.

I have to disagree with you on this one KL. I never felt we were close to a premiership in 2001. I may have dreamed about it but, deep down, I knew I was only dreaming. :'(

 

[Harry]

Danny potatohead won't need to be sacked - once we lose to the bullgogs he'll go on a walkathon.

 

[UntamedTiger]

Dean, sacking coaches has not helped us in the past, hopefully past failures do not inhibit the club from trying to find someone that will succeed. The Weagles boast the vast majority of the same list as 2001, they sacked Judge(another who was super defensive), new coach, new attitude, new ideas, a new much more attacking game plan, etc. Their performances since, speak for themselves. Admittedly our list is not as good, but it is not that bad either. The differences appear to be quite simple to me, where we play to limit the damage and win ugly, they play with attitude and flair - "whatever you score against us, we will score more".

I have not singled out Frawley, I distinctly mentioned the football department as a whole, this includes players, all coaches, recruitment officers, support staff, etc. Surely though the group that has now been together for 4 years should be held accountable.
Do you think we have improved these last 4 years? How will another failure this year and no action in return, affect our club and future membership? What players would want to come to a club that seems to enjoy wallowing in mediocrity? Doing nothing is definitely not the way to go.

I will repeat my major concern, that is the labelling supporters with names that are eminating from the club. This will only make some angry and may alienate them. And for any potential member, what person would want to join a club, that calls its members names, when some express an opinion the club does not like? Personally, I would rather they kept quite.

 

[tigerman]

Well said Untamed Tiger.

 

[Dean3]

UT, I agree, if we get to the end of this year and do nothing, then something is seriosuly wrong down there. But rest assured, things will happen, big things.

And I agree, trash talking members and supporters is silly. But they do need to counteract the vocal minority.

 

[the claw]

UT YOU SAY OUR LIST ISNT THAT BAD. I BELIEVE IT IS ONE OF THE WORST IN THE COMPETITION AND ITS ABOUT TIME EVERY BODY WOKE UP TO IT. IF THE LAST 2 YEARS DOESNT TELL EVERYONE WHERE WE ARE AT NOTHING WILL. THERS ONLY ONE LOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN AND THATS FRAWLEY AND THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT

 

[gustiger12]

Lets look at it this way. Internally we have proven incapable of righting the wrongs that have existed at the club in the past, and have bought in an expert from the outside to give a critical appraisal of where we're at. Greg MILLER has been asked and accepted that responsibility. Not an easy task I am sure we all agree.

Obviously MILLER has identified that the list is of greater concern than the coaching panel. Not only in terms of quality, but in terms of depth as well. In fact most on this list also expressed concerns about the lack of backup talls in the event of injuries this year just by way of example.

Now I am not foolish enough to think that MILLER is going to turn this around overnight and don't expect to be contenders next year, but I do expect to see some significant improvement. Even if that is in the form of going backwards by trading aggressively and getting some young quality players on the list. I am at least prepared to give him the chance to make change.

He has nothing to gain and a lot to lose by pushing the standard old club line and has basically staked his reputation on turning this club around.

There have been some who doubt MILLERS ability, but at the end of the day he has the runs on the board, and if he can't turn things around then I really think we are in serious trouble.

I am not saying I have been happy with the Coaching panel this year, in fact far from it, but I am prepared to give MILLER a chance to provide the direction to turn things around. He basically said from day one that it was realistically about a three year project to right the wrong and turn things around, so all I say is lets give him the chance to show us what he has got.

I realistically expect to see stage one of that plan implemented at years end when a few players are nominating for the Feb draft after a healthy trade period and some long overdue delistings.

I hope I am right and will be bitterly disappointed if I am wrong, but hell that has been known to happen in the past.

There is no one simple cure, we have to get the changes right, right across the board, at the right time.

 

[gustiger12]

Hey DIGGLER don't give up hope your still in the running in 3rd place ahead of Harv's..... 8) ;D ;D