Who are we supporting to win the flag now we are out?

[Brodders17]

Unless it's Wayne Carey, I'm taking Richo above all others, but I love him so it's not a fair fight.

I dislike Campbell immensely but 4 JD medals and three runner-ups, a couple of All-Australians and won a swag of competition wide awards over 300 odd games. Pickett will want to get moving to get anywhere near that.



I'll try and explain what I mean using the Vlastuin example from the Grand Final.

Vlastuin goes down and we don't change anything structurally, we just manipulate personnel into the existing roles. So Broad moves into the role Vlastuin was playing, McIntosh takes over the role Broad was in, Castagna and Rioli take McIntosh's role on the wing.
Nothing needs to change in terms of the way the team plays, everyone understands the roles in the team and can run them. Then at halftime they adjust personnel again, still keeping the same roles, but Astbury becomes the anchor, Balta spends some time as the second ruck etc...

Hours and hours of preparation means the players understand the method and the team is able to function at the same high standard with minimal disruption, despite losing a star.

Now a hypothetical if Tom Stewart is taken out in the same illegal, immoral way in the upcoming Grand Final. My guess is if that happened Geelong won't try and replace him like for like, but they will roll Guthrie back instead. Blicavs will drop his role as the grunt wing/second ruck and roll back off the wing at each bounce. Rather than attempting to create intercept marks for Stewart, they will use Blicavs to give them ground ball opportunities in defence to give Bews, Guthrie. Tuohy and the midfielders.
Without the stop play from defence they will have Cameron roll up to be the outlet kick target and with Hawkins having to pinch hit as the second ruck, they will tweak offence by increasing Dangerfield's minutes up forward and by setting up for a turn around play with Smith holding a more offensive wide position on the wing, with less hit up leading.

Again, the players are well drilled and understand the different scenarios, and can execute it all in moments.

Two different approaches, largely built by what the best option is with the personnel they have at their disposal. One is very heavy on in match adjustment, one is very heavy on maintaining a consistent system. Both great coaches.

All a good explanation of possible responses to 1 situation, so how is C Scott a better 'match day' coach than Hardwick?
My examples included Luke Hodge intercepting heaps early in our 2019 final. We adjusted the way we moved the ball, less long handball forward, and his effectiveness was reduced.
Likewise Stewart in 2020, but we didn't reduce handball, we changed the way we set up, so his opponent got into dangerous positions so Stewart couldn't just stand where he wanted.

 

[The Big Richo]

All a good explanation of possible responses to 1 situation, so how is C Scott a better 'match day' coach than Hardwick?

In Hardwick's case, I don't think he has an opportunity to do much in the box because his method doesn't allow it. The stuff you are saying there is the runner going out and saying lower your eyes and find the hit up inside of going long to the spare. Important stuff but not a change of system.

Another good example is Lachie Neale playing the entire second half on Thursday. Didn't come off the ground once. You wouldn't see Hardwick do that, he would rather ask Bachar Houli to guts it out with a blown calf and keep the rotations so the system is not disrupted.

Again, I want to stress before people who don't comprehend start chiming in with snarky comments, it is not a criticism of Hardwick. He is a great coach with a proven method but it is system based and therefore his match day work is limited. Thee was a bloke called Clarkson who was the same and he did pretty well also.

 

[The Big Richo]

Think this season has really illustrated the point I was trying to make about premierships not being a true measure of the quality of a coach.

Simon Goodwin won a premiership last year, beating Scott's team along the way but he isn't good enough to carry Scott's clipboard into the ground as a coach.

Melbourne has essentially just rolled out the same game again this year and waited for everyone else to catch up to them. No innovation, no improvement, no development.

 

[Carter]

Goodwin seems like a muppet to me.

On Hardwick - he deploys such a heavy system that it is difficult to pull game-saving moves on match day.

I think his 1-wood, even beyond player relationships (which is strong) is actually teaching.

He never looks happier than with a launch bag strapped to his back, and that’s an incredible trait for the head coach of an elite sporting club to have.

 

[Tenacious]

Goodwin seems like a muppet to me.

On Hardwick - he deploys such a heavy system that it is difficult to pull game-saving moves on match day.

I think his 1-wood, even beyond player relationships (which is strong) is actually teaching.

He never looks happier than with a launch bag strapped to his back, and that’s an incredible trait for the head coach of an elite sporting club to have.

There’s a bit in the Cameron/Balme book about how in 2016 Dimma used to have 4 white boards full of instructions pre-game.

Balmely reckoned Dimma needed to simplify things - so from 2017 there was only the one.

And in addition to that - Balmey’s view was that by not overcomplicating things Dimma would bring the players on board because they were smart enough to understand what he wanted.
There’s also this quote of Balme’s advice to Dimma: “Coach them Monday to Friday, but on Saturday you watch them play”

 

[TigerMasochist]

He never looks happier than with a launch bag strapped to his back, and that’s an incredible trait for the head coach of an elite sporting club to have.

That's probably why Dimma's on the hooch these days. Old fart letting all the youngsters leap all over his back day after day.

 

[Brodders17]

Think this season has really illustrated the point I was trying to make about premierships not being a true measure of the quality of a coach.

Simon Goodwin won a premiership last year, beating Scott's team along the way but he isn't good enough to carry Scott's clipboard into the ground as a coach.

Melbourne has essentially just rolled out the same game again this year and waited for everyone else to catch up to them. No innovation, no improvement, no development.

Melbourne clearly dont have a culture of continual improvement.

 

[Redford]

ABG.

 

[mrposhman]

ABG.

Without a doubt.

I was thinking last night, what if the worst thing happened next weekend and both Geelong and Collingwood get through to the GF, what then.

I had to go for Collingwood to win personally. I just can't get around the unlikeable bunch from down the highway. With arrogant self righteous dickheads like Danger etc in their team I'm firmly in the anyone but them camp.

 

[nswtiger]

our women's team

 

[Tenacious]

Melbourne clearly dont have a culture of continual improvement.

Culture to them is being able to distinguish a salad fork from a fish fork in the Long Room

 

[bugsy]

Brisbane preferably, or Sydney. Chris Fagan has always been under-rated and deserves his share of recognition for working hard.

That way the Melbourne media mafia get put back in their box until 2023 when Richmond resumes their premiership reign.

 

[Brodders17]

Without a doubt.

I was thinking last night, what if the worst thing happened next weekend and both Geelong and Collingwood get through to the GF, what then.

I had to go for Collingwood to win personally. I just can't get around the unlikeable bunch from down the highway. With arrogant self righteous dickheads like Danger etc in their team I'm firmly in the anyone but them camp.

Yep,
1. Swans
2. Lions
3. Pies
4. Cats

I reserve the right to swap the Lions and Pies around if they were to play in the GF.

 

[Baloo]

In order
1. Swans
2. Lions
----------
3. Pies (Glad I am out of the country)
----------
4. Salties (Will probably avoid all media coverage until trade period)

 

[tigersnake]

I'll try and explain what I mean using the Vlastuin example from the Grand Final.

Vlastuin goes down and we don't change anything structurally, we just manipulate personnel into the existing roles.

Now a hypothetical if Tom Stewart is taken out in the same illegal, immoral way in the upcoming Grand Final. My guess is

Guesses about hypotheticals to support your argument? Are you fair dinkum?

On the non-hypothetical part, the real part, where Dimma actually successfully dealing with a huge structural challenge early in a GF, there is a lot to actually doing what you talk down as 'just manipulating personnel into existing roles'.

 

[tigerman]

This is what I'd like to see happen, Buddy gets suspended in the preliminary final, the Swans win the grand final.

 

[IanG]

There's no spin, you are just not following the conversation closely enough. I'll have one last go at explaining them assume you are deliberately just being argumentative.

Oh the irony.

 

[tigertim]

I’m running out of ABG alternatives!

1: ABG

2: see 1

 

[Tigerfan]

Sydney

 

[Ridley]

ABG but in order Swans, Lions, Pies.