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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Water threads [Merged]
- Thread starter pahoffm
- Start date
Re: Weekly water update
my understanding is you are only forced to pay if the water authorities can show your dam is capturing water that would have been secured otherwise in a collection they have. Have heard of a few cases where farmers as a result have either gotten narky or refused to build dams because of this.
More importantly the sooner they get over this issue and allow the rebate to apply on tanks for rural homes the better. The double standard is pretty poor now, and some farming groups have been making noises (quite rightly) about why city dwellers get a subsidy to capture rainwater, but they are being financially discouraged from doing so.
my understanding is you are only forced to pay if the water authorities can show your dam is capturing water that would have been secured otherwise in a collection they have. Have heard of a few cases where farmers as a result have either gotten narky or refused to build dams because of this.
More importantly the sooner they get over this issue and allow the rebate to apply on tanks for rural homes the better. The double standard is pretty poor now, and some farming groups have been making noises (quite rightly) about why city dwellers get a subsidy to capture rainwater, but they are being financially discouraged from doing so.
Re: Weekly water update
Believe me 74 I definitely am not a fan of rice farming and the like, in areas where natural rainfall doesn't support them.
Like Gunns in Tassie massacring the wilderness (is there an ethical investment thread?) under the watchful, well paid politicians (of all sides) eyes, there is something wrong with the system when there is a rice farm or the like, actively supported and given concessions by the water board, via the govt.
I think my 'fair use' policy would actively discourage rice farming and the like in one of the driest places on earth.
I am all for equal distribution according to needs. What I can't buy into is that a government owns rain.
Yes I understand that if people intercept it and dam it they are interferring with its POTENTIAL flow into catchment areas and groundwater. But what if you the live in one of the parts of Aus that makes up 98% of the non-catchment areas? Or does that mean we go back to being charged for not allowing it to become groundwater?
What I am saying is that they should be allowed to dam as required under a 'fair use' type policy. If more rain falls than the dams can hold then so be it.
IMO a bigger problem is all the rich suburbanites tapping into the groundwater reserves just so they can have a perfect garden and keep up with the Jones. As more people tap into it...you know the rest.
Yes water needs more and better management, has had for years. And irrigators and those that draw from lakes,rivers,creeks. etc should pay under a fair policy that is in line with a user pays structure.
But practicality is a word that shouldnt be forgotten. It couldn't be a blanket policy, because obviously a hobby farmer, or small land holder's needs will be different to that of a bigger business. Thats what the term 'fair use' would incorporate. It is able to be done, but as you pointed out we have mismanaged water for years.
How many litres get lost through natural seepage in man made unpiped irrigation channels each year?
Tiger74 said:
Believe me 74 I definitely am not a fan of rice farming and the like, in areas where natural rainfall doesn't support them.
Like Gunns in Tassie massacring the wilderness (is there an ethical investment thread?) under the watchful, well paid politicians (of all sides) eyes, there is something wrong with the system when there is a rice farm or the like, actively supported and given concessions by the water board, via the govt.
I think my 'fair use' policy would actively discourage rice farming and the like in one of the driest places on earth.
I am all for equal distribution according to needs. What I can't buy into is that a government owns rain.
Yes I understand that if people intercept it and dam it they are interferring with its POTENTIAL flow into catchment areas and groundwater. But what if you the live in one of the parts of Aus that makes up 98% of the non-catchment areas? Or does that mean we go back to being charged for not allowing it to become groundwater?
What I am saying is that they should be allowed to dam as required under a 'fair use' type policy. If more rain falls than the dams can hold then so be it.
IMO a bigger problem is all the rich suburbanites tapping into the groundwater reserves just so they can have a perfect garden and keep up with the Jones. As more people tap into it...you know the rest.
Yes water needs more and better management, has had for years. And irrigators and those that draw from lakes,rivers,creeks. etc should pay under a fair policy that is in line with a user pays structure.
But practicality is a word that shouldnt be forgotten. It couldn't be a blanket policy, because obviously a hobby farmer, or small land holder's needs will be different to that of a bigger business. Thats what the term 'fair use' would incorporate. It is able to be done, but as you pointed out we have mismanaged water for years.
How many litres get lost through natural seepage in man made unpiped irrigation channels each year?
Re: Weekly water update
We just built quite a big dam on a watercourse that runs into the creek that runs into the Goulburn. If they decide to charge us for the water I wonder if we'll get a refund on the overflow that still runs into the creek. Come to think of it the creek has been pretty dry in recent years, maybe we should also get a refund on the money we've paid for water that wasn't there. Size needs to be monitored but dams should be encouraged in country areas. It was certainly a worry over fire season when all the dams were dry and there was nowhere for Elvis and the fire trucks to fill up. Also a time when farmers were carting water from valuable town supplies to keep stock alive.
Tiger74 said:
We just built quite a big dam on a watercourse that runs into the creek that runs into the Goulburn. If they decide to charge us for the water I wonder if we'll get a refund on the overflow that still runs into the creek. Come to think of it the creek has been pretty dry in recent years, maybe we should also get a refund on the money we've paid for water that wasn't there. Size needs to be monitored but dams should be encouraged in country areas. It was certainly a worry over fire season when all the dams were dry and there was nowhere for Elvis and the fire trucks to fill up. Also a time when farmers were carting water from valuable town supplies to keep stock alive.
Re: Weekly water update
I dare say if you heard nothing yet, you are in the clear
From what I heard in the media they act pretty quickly, you know what semi-govt authorities are like when it comes to saying "give me cash now"
rosy23 said:Tiger74 said:
We just built quite a big dam on a watercourse that runs into the creek that runs into the Goulburn. If they decide to charge us for the water I wonder if we'll get a refund on the overflow that still runs into the creek. Come to think of it the creek has been pretty dry in recent years, maybe we should also get a refund on the money we've paid for water that wasn't there. Size needs to be monitored but dams should be encouraged in country areas. It was certainly a worry over fire season when all the dams were dry and there was nowhere for Elvis and the fire trucks to fill up. Also a time when farmers were carting water from valuable town supplies to keep stock alive.
I dare say if you heard nothing yet, you are in the clear
From what I heard in the media they act pretty quickly, you know what semi-govt authorities are like when it comes to saying "give me cash now"
Re: Weekly water update
Ironically I used to work for the company who buys from Gunns and sold them their plantations in that area
On the water, your fair use the way you describe it above is not far from where I am at. To have proper distribution you need a system of vetting, and the best way this is done is through Govt intervention. If its done through land ownership, those upstream will screw those downstream. By the govt owning it, and the new Fed plan once its sorted and agreed to, that kind of distribution will happen.
I also think that given precedent and the need to encourage water saving, the likelihood of charging household savings is highly unlikely. No issue with them reserving the right though. We have no idea where our water management issues will be in 100-150 years, and keeping all cards on the table is fine by me.
Tigerdog said:
Ironically I used to work for the company who buys from Gunns and sold them their plantations in that area
On the water, your fair use the way you describe it above is not far from where I am at. To have proper distribution you need a system of vetting, and the best way this is done is through Govt intervention. If its done through land ownership, those upstream will screw those downstream. By the govt owning it, and the new Fed plan once its sorted and agreed to, that kind of distribution will happen.
I also think that given precedent and the need to encourage water saving, the likelihood of charging household savings is highly unlikely. No issue with them reserving the right though. We have no idea where our water management issues will be in 100-150 years, and keeping all cards on the table is fine by me.
Re: Weekly water update
Melbourne's water storages are currently 31% full
Water storage data as at 1/7/2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/water_storages/water_storages.asp
A great start, but along way to go.
Shame all the water flooding in East Gippsland will be lost to our catchments.
Better to look at a glass part full than on how empty it is.
Melbourne's water storages are currently 31% full
Water storage data as at 1/7/2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/water_storages/water_storages.asp
A great start, but along way to go.
Shame all the water flooding in East Gippsland will be lost to our catchments.
Better to look at a glass part full than on how empty it is.
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
We are now up to 34%.
Melbourne Water Reserves currently are a bit like the RFC.
It's improving slowly & it will take some time.
We only have to get to 40% before we reach the previous worst level for this time of year - 2003.
Yes, it does sound like the RFC.
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
We are now up to 34%.
Melbourne Water Reserves currently are a bit like the RFC.
It's improving slowly & it will take some time.
We only have to get to 40% before we reach the previous worst level for this time of year - 2003.
Yes, it does sound like the RFC.
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
Re: Weekly water update
A fair bit of rain was in the Thomson catchment, so not all lost. Upper Yarra has had a bit too.
The water storages are on the way up earlier than they have been in recent years.
Phantom said:
A fair bit of rain was in the Thomson catchment, so not all lost.
Upper Yarra has had a bit too.The water storages are on the way up earlier than they have been in recent years.
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
I'm not usually jb. But I saw that segment advertised and wanted to check it out.
It was either 4 corners or the 730 report did a brilliant doco on Gunns a few years back.
Amazing that all sides of politics allow this stuff to happen.
Now that is a doco every Aussie should see.
I'm not usually jb. But I saw that segment advertised and wanted to check it out.
It was either 4 corners or the 730 report did a brilliant doco on Gunns a few years back.
Amazing that all sides of politics allow this stuff to happen.
Now that is a doco every Aussie should see.
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
STORAGES REACH 36%
2 August 2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
Melbourne’s water storages hit 36% (637,695 million litres) of capacity today after climbing 0.8% (13,556 million litres) through the week from 35.2% (624,139 million litres) full last Thursday.
Storages were last at this level on February 6 this year when they were tracking down to their lowest level of 28.4% in June. The turn around in storage levels comes after a month of very good rainfall across Melbourne’s water supply catchments during which the Thomson Reservoir already exceeded its 30 year winter average rainfall.
The remaining three major catchments - O’Shannassy, Maroondah and Upper Yarra – are also nearing their winter averages as we move into the final month of the season.
Rainfall totals across the four major catchments for the week ranged between 15.4mm (Thomson) and 35.6mm (O’Shannassy).
However, while the long overdue rainfall has been welcome, storages are still more than 200 billion litres below their level at the same time last year. This is the equivalent of the volume of Melbourne’s third largest reservoir, the Upper Yarra, and emphasises how much rainfall we still need to see through the remainder of winter and spring to really bolster our supplies ahead of summer.
What this means is that now, in August, we are at 36%. The level for late August in 2003, our previous worst, was about 47%. We still need to increase the reserve up to this latter level by the end of the month to have got ourselves out of trouble.
The goal will be to get up around the 55-60% mark by early November.
It's a bit like watching Richmond improve, sometimes you see some light at the end of the tunnel but you realise that there's still plenty of way to go.
STORAGES REACH 36%
2 August 2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
Melbourne’s water storages hit 36% (637,695 million litres) of capacity today after climbing 0.8% (13,556 million litres) through the week from 35.2% (624,139 million litres) full last Thursday.
Storages were last at this level on February 6 this year when they were tracking down to their lowest level of 28.4% in June. The turn around in storage levels comes after a month of very good rainfall across Melbourne’s water supply catchments during which the Thomson Reservoir already exceeded its 30 year winter average rainfall.
The remaining three major catchments - O’Shannassy, Maroondah and Upper Yarra – are also nearing their winter averages as we move into the final month of the season.
Rainfall totals across the four major catchments for the week ranged between 15.4mm (Thomson) and 35.6mm (O’Shannassy).
However, while the long overdue rainfall has been welcome, storages are still more than 200 billion litres below their level at the same time last year. This is the equivalent of the volume of Melbourne’s third largest reservoir, the Upper Yarra, and emphasises how much rainfall we still need to see through the remainder of winter and spring to really bolster our supplies ahead of summer.
What this means is that now, in August, we are at 36%. The level for late August in 2003, our previous worst, was about 47%. We still need to increase the reserve up to this latter level by the end of the month to have got ourselves out of trouble.
The goal will be to get up around the 55-60% mark by early November.
It's a bit like watching Richmond improve, sometimes you see some light at the end of the tunnel but you realise that there's still plenty of way to go.
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
A ONE PER CENT BOOST FOR STORAGES BUT PLENTY MORE NEEDED
16 August 2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
More good rain through the week, particularly over the weekend, has seen Melbourne’s water storages rise around a further 1% (18,020 million litres) this week.
This increase takes storages to 37.8% (669,460 million litres) of capacity, however this is still around 9.3%, or about 167 billion litres, below the same time last year when storages were 47.1% full (835,794 million litres).
While rainfall totals for the week were between 14.6mm (Thomson) and 47.2mm (O’Shannassy) across the four major catchments, for the month to date around just half of long term average rainfall has been recorded across the catchments.
Similarly inflows into our reservoirs are well down on the 30 year average, with between just 38.7% (O’Shannassy) and 49.4% (Thomson) recorded at our four major reservoirs.
Basically, we are still a long way from being where we need to be to avert disaster.
A ONE PER CENT BOOST FOR STORAGES BUT PLENTY MORE NEEDED
16 August 2007
http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/weekly_water_update/weekly_water_update.asp?bhcp=1
More good rain through the week, particularly over the weekend, has seen Melbourne’s water storages rise around a further 1% (18,020 million litres) this week.
This increase takes storages to 37.8% (669,460 million litres) of capacity, however this is still around 9.3%, or about 167 billion litres, below the same time last year when storages were 47.1% full (835,794 million litres).
While rainfall totals for the week were between 14.6mm (Thomson) and 47.2mm (O’Shannassy) across the four major catchments, for the month to date around just half of long term average rainfall has been recorded across the catchments.
Similarly inflows into our reservoirs are well down on the 30 year average, with between just 38.7% (O’Shannassy) and 49.4% (Thomson) recorded at our four major reservoirs.
Basically, we are still a long way from being where we need to be to avert disaster.
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
Looking pretty grim , cool water in the bight and nw aus means little rain for us..
If this continues we could end up below 20% in melb water supplies by autumn next year not
to mention the farmers being stuffed as well..
Looking pretty grim , cool water in the bight and nw aus means little rain for us..
If this continues we could end up below 20% in melb water supplies by autumn next year not
to mention the farmers being stuffed as well..
Re: Weekly water update [Merged]
July was not a good month (August little better), but one good thing is it seems people are still saving water which is great.
Much better than in QLD. Heard on Radio National even with the floods of this week, they are likely to hit stage 6 soon. Beattie was in denile about this issue for ages, and pulled the restrictions issue way to late in my opinion.
July was not a good month (August little better), but one good thing is it seems people are still saving water which is great.
Much better than in QLD. Heard on Radio National even with the floods of this week, they are likely to hit stage 6 soon. Beattie was in denile about this issue for ages, and pulled the restrictions issue way to late in my opinion.
