Umpires

[zippadeee]

This is becoming an absolute joke.
Name one other occupation where the person doing the job can't be criticised?
Media are covering all angles of the game, why not the umpires?
In the Premier league, they unleash on the referee's same in the NRL.
What's our go??
And i don't want to hear you wont get juniors doing it etc.
Some umpires are pulling in over 100k. I will do it and the media can bag me, i wouldn't give a flk.
We would win the flag by 20 goals.
Newman would call it out.
Mal Brown, the blokes on the old footy shows would do it.
Why can't they do it now?
Ww thought the Essendon game was bad, but last night it was so obvious, Hocking told them to pull back at qtr time, so in the last qtr Geelong were give some freebies. By that stage the game was cooked.

 

[zippadeee]

Just a wild theory, but maybe they are not talking about it because the umpires are doing a much better job than they ever get credit for here?

Umpires make mistakes, same as players, but overall the job they do is pretty good.

When you look at the threads on games here, most of the time errors and free kicks are only highlighted one way. What posters are actually saying is 'I hate Collingwood/Geelong/etc' and channeling it through every decision for and against them.

Nothing wrong with that but its hardly a fair and balanced assessment of the umpiring.

Quick question?
Is throwing allowed in our game??

 

[yandb]

This is becoming an absolute joke.
Name one other occupation where the person doing the job can't be criticised?
Media are covering all angles of the game, why not the umpires?
In the Premier league, they unleash on the referee's same in the NRL.
What's our go??
And i don't want to hear you wont get juniors doing it etc.
Some umpires are pulling in over 100k. I will do it and the media can bag me, i wouldn't give a flk.
We would win the flag by 20 goals.
Newman would call it out.
Mal Brown, the blokes on the old footy shows would do it.
Why can't they do it now?
Ww thought the Essendon game was bad, but last night it was so obvious, Hocking told them to pull back at qtr time, so in the last qtr Geelong were give some freebies. By that stage the game was cooked.

Actually Zips the base pay for all AFL umpires is at least 120K per year plus finals plus their full time job.

I know one of the current umpires is also a bank manager which means he would be pulling in about 350K per season.

I also agree with you, the umpires are a protected species and pay some horrendous decisions, so there is no accountability.

The AFL hide behind the veneer of if you criticize umpires the young umpires will not take it up.

I don't know where they came up with this false fact as the abuse towards umpires was far worse 40 years ago and this didn't stop umpires taking up the profession.

 

[DavidSSS]

Yeah, but we all hate both Geelong and Collingwood, so, in a neutral game there was criticism of the umpires mainly going one way.

Just how do Collingwood do so well in the free kick count year after year after year? I know the free kick count is not definitive but it really is a bit much.

The throwing of the ball these days is beyond a joke, they need to crack down on this. I know players do this when the umpire is unsighted and always have, but it is at plague proportions and should be clamped down on and surely with 3 umpires on the field they can position themselves to see both sides of the pack.

DS

 

[TT33]

Just a wild theory, but maybe they are not talking about it because the umpires are doing a much better job than they ever get credit for here?

Umpires make mistakes, same as players, but overall the job they do is pretty good.

When you look at the threads on games here, most of the time errors and free kicks are only highlighted one way. What posters are actually saying is 'I hate Collingwood/Geelong/etc' and channeling it through every decision for and against them.

Nothing wrong with that but its hardly a fair and balanced assessment of the umpiring.

What you're saying is ok, but it doesn't explain why one particular team seems to get a far better deal from the umpires. They consistently receive more "free kicks for" than other teams.

That just doesn't seem kosher to me.

 

[pete and tys]

I think throwing the ball should be allowed now. Cant see a reason to prohibit it. Might make the game a little better and faster.
Just a thought .
Why should it be prohibited?

 

[DavidSSS]

I think throwing the ball should be allowed now. Cant see a reason to prohibit it. Might make the game a little better and faster.
Just a thought .
Why should it be prohibited?

Because this is football, not rugby.

Allowing throwing would fundamentally change the game, which is why there needs to be better enforcement of the no throwing rule. It didn't lead to higher scores in the VFA for all the years they allowed it.

DS

 

[pete and tys]

Being a devils advocate...
But....I have always thought it really does not matter how the ball is moved on.
I don't mind if it resembles rugby.
Passing in rugby is often fast and opens the game up. Our game at times now does resemble rugby with no easy way to move the ball.
Handball is just an Aussie Rules quirk.

 

[Tenacious]

What you're saying is ok, but it doesn't explain why one particular team seems to get a far better deal from the umpires. They consistently receive more "free kicks for" than other teams.

That just doesn't seem kosher to me.

Not sure why should the free kick count should be be equal - any more so than goals scored or marks taken by teams in games, wins and losses at the end of the season, premierships etc
Maybe what should be more generally equal would be the distribution of free kick mistakes.

 

[DavidSSS]

Big Richo, what you say has validity, but there are limits.

Yes, some players are better at playing in such a way as to give away less free kicks and some coaches will put more emphasis on not giving away free kicks.

It is also true that free kick counts will not necessarily even out even over longer periods.

However, every team turns over players and coaches and there should be some variation over time which will lead to some level of evening out. We're not asking for an even free kick count over a year, a decade or even 20 years. But when you notice a trend which goes far longer than that you really do wonder (West Coast in Perth is the most obvious example of this, their free kick percentages at home are far higher than away, coincidence? I think not). If you look at the long term, AFL Tables goes back to 1965 on free kicks, why are some teams at 103% or even 105% and higher? That's generations of players, coaches, umpires. The numbers over long periods should get closer to 100% but there are a few outliers, Hawthorn at 92% over 55 years is, frankly, stunning.

We also know that this is a professional sport and all teams can and do try and push the rules as far as they can. There is also the tactic of conceding a free kick to slow the game down so your side can set up better (which led to the replacement of the 15m penalty with the 50m penalty).

Some teams do just seem to get away with more, Collingwood throwing is more obvious and they get away with it, Footscray aren't bad at this either.

But the biggest and most glaring issue is the inconsistency. I know this is a fast game with some grey areas in the rules, but is this the best we can expect?

DS

 

[TOT70]

I don’t think umpires pay every free kick that they see. I think they do a bit of “on the run” editing. They let a couple go, hoping that a player takes possession and clears the area. They only pay a free when they have to or when it is very obviously a free. I think that they are instructed to keep the ball moving and to avoid deciding every contest with a free kick or a ball up.

I don’t mind that, by the way. The game would be even more frustrating if there were 100+ frees every game.

However, the most frustrating thing for me is when a number of quite obvious throws or pushes in the backs are ignored in the interests of keeping the play moving. Then a slight infringement is plucked out, say a minor chop of the arm In a marking contest or a ruck infringement where both ruckmen are wrestling. The ruck frees are often given to avoid repeat ball ups and are often given to the “big name” or perceived better ruckman. Both players have wrapped each other up. How do you decide who gets the free? Is your name Grundy? Or Gawn? Or is it Hayden McLean?

Frees plucked out in front of goals that lead to an easy score are also particularly frustrating. In any game, plenty of “tiggy touch wood” frees could be plucked out at either end. Marking players are blocked and buffetted around and this often begins when the ball is eighty metres away. Forwards are held briefly to impede their lead. Spoils are rarely clean, there is nearly always minor contact with other arms. How many times does one team get 4 or 5 in front of goals and the other gets none? I would suggest plenty.

On another note, my pet hate is when a player takes a mark and the umpire over-rules his mark and pays him a free kick instead. Why? He took the mark, why does the umpire need to call it a free? Is he just trying to even up the stats?

Back to point, my point is that if umpires are going to pay every free kick they see, regardless of how minor, like they do in Basketball, then factors of game style, coaching, team philosophy etc all play a role, no doubt.

However, if the umpiring philosophy is to ”let the play go” and just pay just enough frees to keep the game moving, then they are making judgement calls on a whole other level.

They would be much less obtrusive and would exert much less influence on the result if they kept the numbers of frees given more or less equal, in these circumstances.

Just my uneducated opinion.

 

[MD Jazz]

Nope, but if you think that throwing the ball is restricted to certain players or teams then you aren't watching very closely.

Players from all teams throw the ball lots of times in every game, especially when they know it is difficult for an umpire to see.

It's almost just accepted nowadays. A bit like the forward pass in rugby league (now called the flat pass). Commentators barely notice a throw in aussie rules and the same applies to forward passes. I assume somewhere along the line administrators wanted to encourage more attacking brands and have instructed those running, commentating on and officiating the games accordingly.

 

[MD Jazz]

I think the other thing that has crept in (this year especially) that really slows the game down and umps are so poor at picking up is players going over the mark. They are getting more and more audacious at running over by a couple of meters and then waiting for the ump to tell them to go back 2m. Often they are warned multiple times to come back. And in those moments an attacking opportunity is lost. If the umps were strict on this and paying 50's every time they 'accidently" encroached it would do wonders for attacking football. It is infuriating seeing this happen multiple times in every game. Players know what they are doing, they'll pretty quickly stop once a couple of 50's are paid.

 

[artball]

free kicks. sometimes my beef is when and where they are given and how that is either an advantage or disadvantage to whatever team. Collingwood benefit from this type of decision making all the time. last night in the 3 minutes i watched they received 4 free kicks as the Cats were making a surge. it kills any type of momentum.

 

[tigerlove]

Yeah, but we all hate both Geelong and Collingwood, so, in a neutral game there was criticism of the umpires mainly going one way.

Just how do Collingwood do so well in the free kick count year after year after year? I know the free kick count is not definitive but it really is a bit much.

A Pies supporter told me today Pies get so many frees year after year because they don't play for frees and they go hard for the ball and tackle hard and always move the ball forward at any cost. It got me thinking, isn't that the Tigers game that won us the premiership in 2017 when we came stone motherless last for frees? I'm yet to find a Pies supporter to admit they get a good run with the umpires.

 

[Tenacious]

A Pies supporter told me today Pies get so many frees year after year because they don't play for frees and they go hard for the ball and tackle hard and always move the ball forward at any cost. It got me thinking, isn't that the Tigers game that won us the premiership in 2017 when we came stone motherless last for frees? I'm yet to find a Pies supporter to admit they get a good run with the umpires.

There’s your problem - you listened to a C’wood supporter and assumed you’d get common sense

 

[TOT70]

.......... and didn't Ted Whitten get his players to throw it when the umpire was out of position?

Not quite. Ted Whitten started the flick pass. This was a handball but it was executed with an open hand, not a fist. During that period, players did not handball anywhere as often, they basically kicked it forward unless they were tackled. When tackled, they had a limited time to get rid of it, so they would hold the ball in one hand and punch it anywhere With the other. Ted Whitten tried to use handball strategically but that was difficult because skills were poor. Sheedy hadn’t invented the rocket handball yet and nobody practiced handball at training. It was just a tool to get out of trouble before you gave away a free for holding the ball. Use of the open hand meant it was easier to direct it to a teammate but the lawmakers of the day outlawed that practice pretty quickly because it was too hard to distinguish from a throw.

It was a simpler game then.
By the way, Rioli’s handball to Dusty on the boundary that led to a goal in the Qualifying Final against Brisbane was a classic flick pass. Teddy would have loved it.

 

[TOT70]

Btw, if an old school umpire from the 60s was umpiring today, there would be hundreds of frees given for “throwing the ball.” Back in the day, it was only a hand pass if the hand that supported the ball was underneath the ball and did not move when the other fist punched the ball clear. The definition of a hand pass was very strict.

There would be none of the modern falling forward handballs, or the two handed passes that are propelled forward to get extra distance. One hand supports the ball and doesn’t move, the other punches it. That’s it.

 

[TOT70]

Sorry, this was a double post made during a technology-challenged moment. Go easy, Boomer lives matter too.

 

[yandb]

I have a theory as to why Collingwood are not pinged so hard by the umpires and why they receive more free kicks.

One or more (presumably) recently retired umpires who are Collingwood supporters go to the coaching staff and offer their services to advise the club on how to bend the rules and not get caught and how to play for frees and be rewarded.

Example; They then advise the coaching staff on how to throw the ball legally, just as long as one fist is clenched then the umpire will presume it is a handball.

Because the umpires maybe instructed to look for the clenched fist in determining whether it is a throw.

There are tells umpires will have been instructed to look for and if the players have been coached to display these tells then they are more likely to receive free kicks.

Conversely when bending the rules make sure you display the tells which fool the umpires into thinking you have have been legal.

I have umpired country footy for decades so I have seen a lot of tricks by lots of cunning players trying to gain an advantage.

This is just a theory but in Europe soccer clubs give their players lessons on how to fake for free kicks.