As I have heard many times we don’t necessarily value clearances as highly as post clearance possessions - which are turnovers when we don’t win first possession.7-5 against clearance record in finals since 2017.
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To Noldo, or not to Noldo, that is the question......
- Thread starter CarnTheTiges
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Except in the 2020 finals where we became a clearance first team.
didn't Dusty carry a niggling foot issue from early in the season ?
with news of him doing more midfield time , and being surrounded by Cotch ,
Edwards , Lambert , Prestia , Bolton ....
we can improve our centre clearances and our general defense thru the midfield without doing anything special
and that will take a load off our defense
and with the possibility of Balta going forward
we might have the comp chasing us again
with news of him doing more midfield time , and being surrounded by Cotch ,
Edwards , Lambert , Prestia , Bolton ....
we can improve our centre clearances and our general defense thru the midfield without doing anything special
and that will take a load off our defense
and with the possibility of Balta going forward
we might have the comp chasing us again
yes, not surprised. I think 3 of those 5 were the finals we won in 2020 when we turned clearances around enormously at seasons end, especially centre clearances which we dominated in the last 3 weeks of the finals7-5 against clearance record in finals since 2017.
We rarely won clearances in 2017-19
this isn't really the point though.
with nankervis and soldo in the side, we
1) degrade oppo clearances ALL quarter which gives us better turnover opportunities, particularly in red time
2) we get flexibility to push one of them down back to fill the hole, allowing vlastuin, grimes and balta to run off, enhancing rebound no end
3) one of them can play bail out on the wing if our wingers are pushed back too far into defence and we scramble it out. we missed this option last year. oppo got several repeat entries against us.
4) we win more clearances! soldo is becoming an excellent tap ruckman to the likes of Prestia and Edwards
I'd be very surprised if a fully fit Nank and Soldo combo isn't rolled out at every opportunity.
TBR you need to stop comparing back to 2017. The game has changed considerably since then.
That is correct. However teams have worked that strategy out and we don’t get the turnovers we used to. The Melbourne game was a classic. They deliberately hand balled around our stand off pressure and smashed us. 226 handballs to 158 in that game. And then you saw that being copied by others during the year. New rules didn’t help our regular strategy either.
So we got a choice. We either find a way to re tune that stand off/intercept/turnover call it what you will strategy, or we start winning more clearances.
Was pretty much our one wood until last year. Always forced the oppo into dirty clearances n scrambled big time on the rebound.
Well, as an extension of that, not only were we last for clearances but we were 17th for both contested possessions and contested marks as well. 13th for tackles.
Did we really have that appetite for the contest last year ? Not from what I saw nor from what the numbers tell you.
Definitely loss of appetite but also our midfield was literally non existent last year. I could count on one hand the amount of times Martin, Prestia, Edwards, Lambert, Cotchin, Nankervis etc played together in the same game. The engine room was running on one piston.
in 17 &18 we had Astbury, Rance, Grimes, Broad and Vlastuin down back and we were really hard to score against, with Houli and BEllis, the Houli and Short running.
we then went smaller in 2019. In 2020 we went back to taller line up with Balta replacing Rance. Last year we never had a our 1st choice defenders all available to see.
In 2020 we used Astbury in the ruck, because the other option was playing Chol. It was only the GF where we went shorter, moving Balta permanently up the ground in the 2nd half.
In both 2019 and 2020 we used Nank and Soldo together in the few games they were both fit. I didn't like the idea, but it worked- we barely lost when they both played, including through the '19 finals.
On Jack, i think sometimes he would prefer the 2nd tall defending him, rather than the "3rd".
There are a few "3rd tall" defenders around who are big and strong enough to match him, but a lot quicker, so they can catch him on the lead, then run off him. where as some "2nd talls" dont have the smarts to stay with him, or the speed to make up the ground.
He would rather Tarrant on him than Grimes (or Broad) for example i reckon.
i guess we will just have to wait and see.
Glad you brought this up mate. As an insider to this sort of thing, do you think we looked tired last year? Certainly how it looked. Does a prolonged series of finals campaigns take its toll, or is it more teams “working us out”, hence looking like we’re constantly chasing tail so to speak?
We don't have to displace anyone.
No-one is in the Top 4 ATM. Not Melbourne or anyone. Everyone is equal and starting from the same line.
If we play well enough and win enough games i.e. 16 we will finish top 4. Don't need to worry about anyone else.
No-one is in the Top 4 ATM. Not Melbourne or anyone. Everyone is equal and starting from the same line.
If we play well enough and win enough games i.e. 16 we will finish top 4. Don't need to worry about anyone else.
Traditionally, yes... rucks have traditionally helped with clearances. But that hasn't rung true in recent years.
Soldo and Nank are great. They'll both be an imposing physical presence all over the ground and in the air. But our clearance numbers have mostly been influenced by the health of Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin, Graham and Lambert.
E.g. In 2019 or 2020, we had these midfielders up and running just in time for the finals and our clearance numbers changed dramatically overnight.
Since 2017 (excluding only 2021 when we deviated from this idea in favour of more traditional ideas), we've exploited the emerging fact that rucks aren't the answer to winning matches via their influence on clearances. We've let other clubs waste resources on such traditional ideas that are no longer effective.
I've been keeping a mental note of it since watching Grigg in 2017. To my eye, I've rarely seen examples of the traditional ruck concept working as people imagine it.
What I mean is, try to count the number of times you see a ruckman tap the ball down into the arms of a waiting midfielder who then cleanly disposes the ball to someone else to setup a goal.
That's an intentional, undisturbed chain of possessions that leads to a goal resulting from a ruckman's purposeful hitout.
Sometimes you'll be waiting a few weeks for it to happen once.
Plus, most of the effective hitouts recorded are from random, scrappy actions in congestion that don't lead to anything. Commentary regularly praises a hitout while you're watching a player get dragged to the ground for another ball-up. That commentary/outcome mismatch has become a bit of comedy thing for me while I'm watching ruck contests.
The differentiating thing here is whether it's a controlled action by the ruckman or something that's been deemed effective in hindsight based on an outcome that was determined by the quality of the midfielder.
Happy to be proven wrong, and maybe the game is changing again this year, but in my mind the above has been true since 2017 and I haven't seen anything to contradict it.
Happened quite a lot in the 2021 Grand Final from memory when Melbourne was on fire...
