The SC/DRAFT 2008 - discussion thread.

[KiwiTig]

My only suggestions would be:

• Have a NAB like pre-season knockout cup for the first 4 rounds (1 round overlap) - I can adminstrate if it helps
• Highest scoring team over 22 weeks wins rather than highest placed team
• We run our own H&A comp including finals that runs 22 weeks. - We can rotate adminstration if it helps
• We run our own H&A comp including finals that runs the first 19 weeks. (Rather than last 19, could also feature a challange cup in the last 4 weeks, so that people still have something to aim for) - We can rotate adminstration if it helps/li]

Like the preseason cup idea for the first four rounds - going to suggest that at work too (with a few $ attached )

For the winner - like all tipping/fantasy sports there is a degree of skill and a lot of luck. When finals come around most teams have used most/all of their trades and limp into them. It's the way it works and it is still fun. Perhaps once a team is knocked out their players go into the pool and you can draft 2 of the them (SC max per week) if you have drafts left. Would make it interesting.

As it is the first time lets try it the SC way and then have a post season review.

 

[Tigers of Old]

For what it is worth I support the no changing of captains. And I drafted my team to reflect this rule. A rule change now has an unfair effect on my team as I would have drafted differently.

Not a big fan of changing the rules half way through the game.

You picked your team on that basis?
As it was in the rules to start then fair enough but it's the only rule I don't like because if a players captain goes down then they virtually lost not one but two players and are pretty much eliminated from the game because of that and as said previously they will lose interest because they won't be competitive.
Fair enough if this is a case of last team standing but now that the draft is finished, it's just about a game of set and forget given the relatively small player pool remaining. At least by having the ability to change captains it gives you some control over your destiny.
I think you have a valid point but as I said I don't like that rule as I think it leaves the game with just about no ability to change your destiny over the course of a season.
If it were a real footy team and the captain was injured/dropped for poor form then the (c) baton would pass to another player. I'd like to see that flexibility in this comp too.

 

[Maxwell]

Too,

That's why we have V Captains, if the Captain is injured the vice becomes the captain. 

My first two selections where the highest scoring players available, as I knew that these would be my captain and vice.  I then picked based on position.  If this had not been the case then I would have picked by position from the start, thus not selecting midfielders with my first 10 picks as there would be plenty of bargin players left.

From your team it can be seen that you picked a team that you thought would grow in value so that you could upgrade later.  Everyone had a strategy, mine was based on this part of the rules. 

I do believe that I have one of the best captain / vice captain mixes with K Cornes and Ablett, both incredibly constant scorers - I believe that Cornes has averaged 105+ for 3 years running - the only player to do so. This was a part of my strategy.

Not sure why we couldn't have changed the rules before the draft if you didn't like them.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Fair enough Maxwell Smart.
I'm new to the whole supercoach thing and am happy to go with whatever in this instance.
I certainly did pick by position as I thought there would be plenty of players left in the draft pool to chose from later in the game but it's become apparent that's clearly now not the case.
The reality is I should have just picked the highest priced players available until they ran out and filled up with crap later on.
Oh well, it's all good fun.
Happy to not change the captains.

 

[Phar Ace]

From your team it can be seen that you picked a team that you thought would grow in value so that you could upgrade later. Everyone had a strategy, mine was based on this part of the rules.

I do believe that I have one of the best captain / vice captain mixes with K Cornes and Ablett, both incredibly constant scorers - I believe that Cornes has averaged 105+ for 3 years running - the only player to do so. This was a part of my strategy.

Not sure why we couldn't have changed the rules before the draft if you didn't like them.

CAPTAIN ISSUE
Interesting Max....

I too picked my first two players like you did, in fact both Bartel (1) and Chapman (10)exceed Cornes @ (11), but am not worried in the slightest about others being able to change Captains - why would I while these guys are fit and playing well. BUT, if Cornes gets a quad and Ablett does a hammy and these co-incide even for three weeks, that will probably put you out of the running - whereas, to at least go for your third best player should keep you within striking distance.

I unashamedly want to keep every coach within striking distance for as long as possible!

Initially, in earlier discussions with U2, I was in favour of one Captain over the journey. Mostly for admin ease though. Then after working through some processes in my pea-sized mind I realised it shouldn't affect admin at all ;D. Then a couple of coaches asked why they couldn't change Captains - and really there are no reasons to refuse it that I can see. Even your "strategy" argument doesn't sit with me - cannot see how we will ever be disadvantaged, you and I, for having the same strategy. In fact, given the scenario I painted, it may even be an "advantage", though small as it is.

All I'm saying is there is NO admin reason not to be able to change Captains weekly, as we will be doing for Subs and emergencies.

What about if you trade your Captain Max? Cornes is down for 12? Are you OK travelling with only the VC as Captain now?

Sorry, think all the strategy points are moot when you consider it will make for a more even comp, and it's better decided now before the season starts than later when we find some teams just are not competitive. Believe me, having "lame duck teams" is more unfair than anything you have put up as unfair on this. I've seen it in comps - beaten by a team in Round 1 only to see that team not even compete (low 1000 in points) cos the coach lost interest by Round 12.

 

[Phar Ace]

Fair enough Maxwell Smart.
I'm new to the whole supercoach thing and am happy to go with whatever in this instance.
I certainly did pick by position as I thought there would be plenty of players left in the draft pool to chose from later in the game but it's become apparent that's clearly now not the case.
The reality is I should have just picked the highest priced players available until they ran out and filled up with crap later on.
Oh well, it's all good fun.
Happy to not change the captains.

You'll find that is not how Supercoach traditionally works. There is more judgement to it than just going highest price available.

It will be harder in this comp to utilise this judgement because of the limitations to trade. Some players get a "flyer" like Selwood did last year, like Lappin did last year, and your $10M list becomes worth $11M even $12M by trading astutely and at the right time (Ben Johnson of Coll nearly always has a good first half of the season then falls away for example).

Players playing with injuries can have huge value drops of $200K. There is always about 20 kids that grow in value (Davey, Sellwood, Westhoff, Gray just to name a couple from last year).

Your team could easily be the second best team in the comp mate! ;D

 

[Phar Ace]

Not sure why we couldn't have changed the rules before the draft if you didn't like them.

Becuase it's the first time doing it this way and not everything could be thought of - the draft concept was done before, but not in conjuntion with SC, and it was much better the second time because of some changes to process.........

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I think pharace has summed it up well.

I am in favour of the ability to change captain as the pros of this for the competition as a whole outweigh the cons IMO.

Just my 2c

In actual fact I would prefer if captain changes could only occur as a result of injury or dropping of a player....but that would be an administrative nightmare.

 

[Phar Ace]

I agree that the concept of the draft is fantastic :clap please don't take it any other way.

I was just pointing out that the first three weeks do not count for anything and that I believe that the winner will be decided by who has a team left standing rather than the skill of picking the best team. Maybe not though? This is the first time any of us have done this.

My only suggestions would be:

• Have a NAB like pre-season knockout cup for the first 4 rounds (1 round overlap) - I can adminstrate if it helps
• Highest scoring team over 22 weeks wins rather than highest placed team
• We run our own H&A comp including finals that runs 22 weeks. - We can rotate adminstration if it helps
• We run our own H&A comp including finals that runs the first 19 weeks. (Rather than last 19, could also feature a challange cup in the last 4 weeks, so that people still have something to aim for) - We can rotate adminstration if it helps/li]

I am sure others would have ideas. Just trying to be a bit creative. I look forward to everyone's feedback

Supercoach is basically three games in one:

Overall score
Premiership
$1000 weekly prize (sadly I've never won one - did come 16th one week)

U2 and I thought we would try to at least set up a Premiership type comp based on the draft idea (the draft idea had already been tried on its own). We knew the overall score and $1,000 wouldn't be a feature because these teams won't score anything like regular teams in the comp will - pure and simple.

Devising something that can be administered seperately is OK, but I know U2 and I didn't want additional admin - KISS principle!

While not speaking for U2 here, if someone (Max) wants to do a whole lot of admin to do something additional - I don;t see a problem with that. But like the current real NAB, my eye will be on the Premiership season and trading with an eye to that period rather than worrying too much about the NAB Cup period. The first three rounds are interesting - a bit like a boxer feeling out his opponent for the first couple of rounds - a bit of dancing, a bit of getting your own process or strategy in place, and getting all your skills on target.

By Round 4, you should have tweaked your team (does Knighter like Slattery as much as Sheeds did? Will Bailey play Jamar/Johnson more and allow White more bench time - will Carroll even get a game?) There are so many new approaches by coaches each year, in-favour players can fall out, and out-of-favour can be left right out or right back in! It takes these 3 weeks to see these eventuate. Will Bowdo get more HF work and not as much free ball? Raines into the guts has reduced his possession count for example. A "ball player" becomes a tagger and visa versa.

All I'm saying is don't underestimate the value of the first three rounds. Just getting your team tweaked to be able to have 22 playing most weeks will be the biggest challenge of this particular game. It might take all three weeks to get close to that!

Like all good structures, only the right foundations will determine their enduring strength.

 

[Six Pack]

i dont care either way

 

[Maxwell]

I am happy to change captains, just sharing my view.

 

[U2Tigers]

I am happy to change captains, just sharing my view.

Cheers Max.

I have decided in the benifit of keeping the competition as even and as competitive as possible - Captains can be changed at any time. ( I initially thought the other idea would add something unique - however keeping it close is a very good point not thought of by me)

Also Max - I like the idea of yuour pre-season Idea - So looks like you have the honour of running it. :hihi

just about there everyone - all teams are now on SC. And we are less than a week away from the start.

Trade rules will be posted, we are just considering some minor details which may be of concern.

Please post any ideas in regard to trading. Timings are our concerns. Trade period won't be open slather - there will most likely be a set period.

 

[Maxwell]

Also Max - I like the idea of yuour pre-season Idea - So looks like you have the honour of running it. :hihi

Please see the PRE-season Cup thread for details of the competition.

Any additional ideas would be appreciated.

 

[cagedtiger]

I am no fussed on the captain rule. If whatever we decide ends up working against me I will howl to have the rule changed - otherwise happy to go with the flow ;D.

 

[U2Tigers]

I am no fussed on the captain rule. If whatever we decide ends up working against me I will howl to have the rule changed - otherwise happy to go with the flow ;D.

very good.

 

[Phar Ace]

I am no fussed on the captain rule. If whatever we decide ends up working against me I will howl to have the rule changed - otherwise happy to go with the flow ;D.

This is actually called the "U2 Prerogative". You see, once someone else doesn;t like a rule, and suggests change, and provided it means U2 can win, he says [b]"U2!" [/b] and makes the change - the U2 Prerogative is particularly useful applied retrospectively - when certainty is absolutey necessary ;D Nah....I was only being serious :hihi! EDIT - In case anyone thought I really was being serious on this - I wasn't..........guess you couldn't see me smiling mischieviously ;D
TRADING.

1. It has been determined that a reasonable trading period should be available as we have competitors in UK, BK and FIIK. Therefore the Weekly Trading Period (WTP) shall open at the siren of the last game of a each round - including the any split round. Check your AFL Record for more details. The WTP will close 30 minutes before the scheduled game start time of the first game for the subsequent round.

Commentary: This should allow ample time to stuff your team up in an adequate manner.

2. As per Supercoach, only two trades per round per coach, with a maximum of 20 trades per coach per season.

3. All proposed trades must be first lodged on the WTP Round ? thread on PRE. This will ensure any double up of players are avoided as a first measure. Time will be of the essence - meaning first coach to nominate a player to be traded FOR will have first right of refusal on that player for 24 hours, unless advised by U2 or Pharace that such a player is unavailable. The player intended to be delisted must also be nominated at the same time otherwise no rights to a player will be available.

4. However, all rights cease in the last two (2) hours of the WTP. During this period an appointed moderator will immediately approve any trade requests on a first come - first serve basis. Please note - everyone will have to nominate one week when they will make themselves available to be the nominated moderator. Please advise the date to Pharace ASAP.

5. It is up to each coach to ensure that there are adequate funds available after delisting a player to enlist the new player. If an error or judgement has occurred (Capt Johno ;D), then the original player must be returned to the playing list and a new request to trade made. Supercoach won't allow you to spend over your allowed amount anyway.

Commentary: It is recommended that each team coach scrutinise the opposing team list each round for any anomolies (from Round 4 onward you will be able to see the opposition team list by simply clicking on their team name in Supercoach.

6. Any coach found to be using a player already in use will receive a penalty to be determined on the basis of the impact - ie whether a result has been changed irreversably. A panel of the four coaches with the highest ladder position (excluding the errant coach and any aggrieved coach) will be used to determine such penalty at the time. PLEASE, LET'S NOT GET TO THIS ONE

7. An open rule for unforeseeable applications, excludes "U2 Prerogative" ;D

Easpecially those who have played previously, if you can foresee any problems, please discuss them now.

Happy Trading

 

[H tiger]

Question if you have a player in your side who is dual position ie fwd/bck or mid/back can we switch them around from what we have posted as our team as long as it fits with SC?

I'm asking the question because I have a non starter in the rustlin bustlin cerfew breakin Hi Ho Sylvia.

He is listed as a forward. Could I move him to the bench say and move one of my back emergencies into the backs and one of my back/forward starters forward (or back)?

Maybe I'm confusing you (but it works on paper). Most likely will not have all start anyway but just asking the question.

H

 

[KiwiTig]

I reckon it will be fine - key concept is each player is in only one team. How you set up team is up to you.

 

[Phar Ace]

Question if you have a player in your side who is dual position ie fwd/bck or mid/back can we switch them around from what we have posted as our team as long as it fits with SC?

I'm asking the question because I have a non starter in the rustlin bustlin cerfew breakin Hi Ho Sylvia.

He is listed as a forward. Could I move him to the bench say and move one of my back emergencies into the backs and one of my back/forward starters forward (or back)?

Maybe I'm confusing you (but it works on paper). Most likely will not have all start anyway but just asking the question.

H

You will find with Supercoach that once you have selected (Chad Cornes for example) a player as a Defender, the only way you can"switch" him to a Midfielder (if named by Supercoach in two positions) is to use one of your trades as far as I am aware - whcih i would think would be a complete waste of a valuable trade (you only get 20 for the whole season) - but feel free to do it if you want to. You will still need to nominate via PRE however.

Your specific question though i think was..... can you change your existing list around in position without doing any actual trading? Provided you have two players with identical Mid / Def options - I don't have a problem - but you can't be trading for a new player in any way. Provided your 30 doesn't change for Round 1 - go for it. I guess it's a Clayton's Trade. The trade you can make when you aren't allowed a trade.

Just remember, you won't be able to trade back after Round 1 starts without using an actual SC trade. So you would be stuck with what you change to.

 

[Maxwell]

Question if you have a player in your side who is dual position ie fwd/bck or mid/back can we switch them around from what we have posted as our team as long as it fits with SC?

I'm asking the question because I have a non starter in the rustlin bustlin cerfew breakin Hi Ho Sylvia.

He is listed as a forward. Could I move him to the bench say and move one of my back emergencies into the backs and one of my back/forward starters forward (or back)?

Maybe I'm confusing you (but it works on paper). Most likely will not have all start anyway but just asking the question.

H

I don't see this being an issue before the season starts.

Once the season starts however this would be rather complicated. You can not switch a player from one position to another in SC without Trading, therefore you would have to use up your trades to do so. It is also not possible to do it in less than 3 trades, so it will take you over a week and will need you to use another player for that round.

Example - Wirrpanda, David (B) for Polak, Graham (F)
Trade 1 - Wirrpanda, David for X (SC won't let you pick up the same player twice so you can not pick Polak).
Trade 2 - Polak for Wirrpanda
Trade 3 - X for Polak

I would therefore recommend that this is not allowed to happen during the season.