The real problem with Richmond at the moment

[uhuh uhuh]

Is we have 14 new players with none or limited afl experience..

Thats the bottom line.

Freo and Melbourne were in our position last year. SO many of the posters on this site expect us to get rid of players like Richo, Bowden, Johnson, Brown and still make the finals. I excepted that we may not win more than one or two games (maybe 0) at the start of the season.

Its going to take two years of blooding young players before we are able to compete with the mid range teams. Its going to take 4 years to be up with the best.

Hardwick is the first coach we have had who understands what is required, there are no short term solutions, we have to have this pain. I am fed up with some of the idiots on this site who want to sack players that haven't got to 50 games yet. Give them some time!

 

[BillyJean17]

there's no question about that, we need only look back at melbournes journey when it all began and it was a rocky road, and there are plenty of examples of sides before that...we're seeing signs and there are plenty more players that will get their chance...Im comfortable where we're at and for anyone that knows me and my Y&B blood coursing through my veins, that's saying something :clap

 

[pahoffm]

Yep. Agree entirely.

It'll come in time, as both Melbourne & Freo have shown.

We just need to continue to support the boys as they mature.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Yep. Agree entirely.

It'll come in time, as both Melbourne & Freo have shown.

We just need to continue to support the boys as they mature.

agree also, and signs when we put it together like the 1st qtr shows where this team can be in 2 years time but i dont want players getting games if they're not dominating/playing well in the 2's...

 

[Tigerbob]

Agree also.

Was very happy with last nights progress. Things are looking very positive. It will just click sooner rather than later.

 

[Bill James]

uhuh uhuh

 

[brigadiertiger]

agree also, and signs when we put it together like the 1st qtr shows where this team can be in 2 years time but i dont want players getting games if they're not dominating/playing well in the 2's...

Hopefully in two years time we will have the depth that will mean players will have to earn their positions in the 2's.

 

[velo]

Who expected us to make finals? I don't think I've seen "SO" many of them.

 

[Bill James]

Looking at last nights game, where are we at.

Endeavour good: Tackles 68-62, Contested Posessions 122-120, we haven't often won both of those counts in the last 5 years.

Posession average: Disposals 348-349, Clearances 29-37 not bad given Sandilands domination; Inside 50 41-47.

Team process poor: Marks inside 50 9-22, DE% 66 -70, Scores per 50 entry 46%-75%. Kick out stats would also look bad.

In summary, the kids effort looked to be pretty good, they are getting a bit of the ball but they don't put it together well as a team yet. I went through the footy record at the start of the game and while we can't get to all the Perth games I counted 10 players that I had never seen play before. I much prefer 50 point losses with 20yo's than 30 point losses with recycled 30yo's.

 

[TigerFurious]

First decent thread in a few days.

Richmond have the lowest average games played and lowest average age of any team in the competition by some margin and because of this we are going to be the competition whipping boys for a while yet. Accept it and move on!

All things considered I think Hardwick and co. are doing a very good job.

 

[hopper]

It's about room for improvement.

In watching the first half today of Geelong, they are beginning to show signs of not being able to improve any further. Their good players are as good as they will be and they are stopping some gaps with the likes of Podsiadly. It will help them prevent the speed of their slide, but not the inevitability of it. If Ablett leaves them, they could drop away quite quickly as it seems they just don't have the footspeed they need to match emerging teams. (eg, Warnock almost running down Wojcinski in the 2nd qu).

I'd say Geelong, Western Bulldogs and St.Kilda are unlikley to improve a great deal further. I'd also suggest that a group close to them would include Sydney and Brisbane - perhaps Collingwood.

Of the sides who have tried to improve but are being found wanting now, you'd have say Essendon and Adelaide are in that boat. Imho, they are in trouble as those they have invested in are being shown not to be up to the task and their veterans are dwindling.

Hawthorn are just now being proven to be struggling for depth when injuries test them. And their recent recruiting strategy of "top up" through Gibson and Burgoyne is risky in my opinion. I think Brisbane are in the same boat. While the Fev/Brown combo is clearly dangerous, it will never be more dangerous than now and their depth is very poor (check out the form of their deplorable 2nds in the QAFL comp - competitive last year, on the bottom this year).

That's a few teams for us to get past in the next 4-5 years - just with natural improvment and experience. It can happen.

My guess is that our main rivals as we emerge will be Carlton, Freo and Melbourne (perhaps WCE or an expansion team that combines some drafting skill with some old fashioned luck). Just my 5c. Time to hang tough and take our medicine for a little while.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

In watching the first half today of Geelong, they are beginning to show signs of not being able to improve any further.

Hope you're right, we're not in the same universe as their 66 wins from 74 as it is!

 

[Phar Ace]

Great post Hippity.

My only caveat is that we could be no different to Essendon. Not saying that is the case, because it is way too early, but because we recruit kids with no real quality vets to to guide them, it is no guarantee to success IMO.

 

[Jack]

Who expected us to make finals? I don't think I've seen "SO" many of them.

There was a topic over the summer about people predictions for the season. How many we will win, ladder finish etc etc. It was called something like prediction for 2010. Lots of posters ( maybe close to half ) were predicting finals, or close to it. I had a few discussions with people in this topic about their expectation either being too high or misguided. ( Just found it currently on page 9 called 2110 crystal balls. Not really half predicting finals, but still a few and others predicting 9th or 10th and a season of improvment, basically not underdstanding where the club is at )



I fully agree with this thread, but having said that, it is hardly new news. If anyone has only just realised where the team is at currently, they have either been away, don't pay attention or are stupid.

 

[TigerMasochist]

It's about room for improvement.

In watching the first half today of Geelong, they are beginning to show signs of not being able to improve any further. Their good players are as good as they will be and they are stopping some gaps with the likes of Podsiadly. It will help them prevent the speed of their slide, but not the inevitability of it. If Ablett leaves them, they could drop away quite quickly as it seems they just don't have the footspeed they need to match emerging teams. (eg, Warnock almost running down Wojcinski in the 2nd qu).

I'd say Geelong, Western Bulldogs and St.Kilda are unlikley to improve a great deal further. I'd also suggest that a group close to them would include Sydney and Brisbane - perhaps Collingwood.

Of the sides who have tried to improve but are being found wanting now, you'd have say Essendon and Adelaide are in that boat. Imho, they are in trouble as those they have invested in are being shown not to be up to the task and their veterans are dwindling.

Hawthorn are just now being proven to be struggling for depth when injuries test them. And their recent recruiting strategy of "top up" through Gibson and Burgoyne is risky in my opinion. I think Brisbane are in the same boat. While the Fev/Brown combo is clearly dangerous, it will never be more dangerous than now and their depth is very poor (check out the form of their deplorable 2nds in the QAFL comp - competitive last year, on the bottom this year).

That's a few teams for us to get past in the next 4-5 years - just with natural improvment and experience. It can happen.

My guess is that our main rivals as we emerge will be Carlton, Freo and Melbourne (perhaps WCE or an expansion team that combines some drafting skill with some old fashioned luck). Just my 5c. Time to hang tough and take our medicine for a little while.

Must have a mighty big telescope to see all of that from so far away hippety hopper. You're absolutely right though, it's just a pity some people simply can't see the nose on their own faces no matter how hard they search. Might have to buy them a mirror.

 

[Gunsmoke]

It's about room for improvement.

In watching the first half today of Geelong, they are beginning to show signs of not being able to improve any further. Their good players are as good as they will be and they are stopping some gaps with the likes of Podsiadly. It will help them prevent the speed of their slide, but not the inevitability of it. If Ablett leaves them, they could drop away quite quickly as it seems they just don't have the footspeed they need to match emerging teams. (eg, Warnock almost running down Wojcinski in the 2nd qu).

I'd say Geelong, Western Bulldogs and St.Kilda are unlikley to improve a great deal further. I'd also suggest that a group close to them would include Sydney and Brisbane - perhaps Collingwood.

Of the sides who have tried to improve but are being found wanting now, you'd have say Essendon and Adelaide are in that boat. Imho, they are in trouble as those they have invested in are being shown not to be up to the task and their veterans are dwindling.

Hawthorn are just now being proven to be struggling for depth when injuries test them. And their recent recruiting strategy of "top up" through Gibson and Burgoyne is risky in my opinion. I think Brisbane are in the same boat. While the Fev/Brown combo is clearly dangerous, it will never be more dangerous than now and their depth is very poor (check out the form of their deplorable 2nds in the QAFL comp - competitive last year, on the bottom this year).

That's a few teams for us to get past in the next 4-5 years - just with natural improvment and experience. It can happen.

My guess is that our main rivals as we emerge will be Carlton, Freo and Melbourne (perhaps WCE or an expansion team that combines some drafting skill with some old fashioned luck). Just my 5c. Time to hang tough and take our medicine for a little while.

Good post, sort of matches my thinking. If we make the right moves we should emerge in 2012/13 and improve into contention. What happens from there depends on luck, timing and the number of yet to emerge elites that are on/added to the list.

I think the bombers are suffering a bit from a psuedo rebuild. Knights has really tried to rebuild and top up at the same time, it didn't go well for us and I don't think it will end prettily for them. Brisbane will also rue their recruiting this year, but I can understand going for it when you have the best CHF in the business.

The Hawks can still recover, but would want to do some damage in the next two years before the older end of their midfield rotation go past their primes.

Dogs, saints and cats will contend this year and probably next, but are already in their decline phases, it just hasn't effected their results yet.

 

[TigerForce]

Has Hopper done a nostradamus?

 

[hopper]

Has Hopper done a nostradamus?

Come look into my crystal ball, TF!

It's Pantene re-building of a footy club - it won't happen overnight, but it will happen!

While I don't expect us to get near Geelong next week, I'll be interested to see if there are periods where we are able to stretch them by picking a fast team. This match is tailor made for Martin, Nason, Edwards, Foley, Deledio to show a clean pair of heels the way Carlton did today through Judd, Simpson, Gibbs, Murphy and Carazzo. Different quality for now I know.

And Phar Ace - you are spot on. The re-emergence is not guaranteed and that old chestnut of quality drafting and player development is going to need to be spot on. Will be the difference between us emerging as a quality side or as an Essendon.

 

[ROLLS ROYCE]

Great post Hippity.

My only caveat is that we could be no different to Essendon. Not saying that is the case, because it is way too early, but because we recruit kids with no real quality vets to to guide them, it is no guarantee to success IMO.

This is my biggest fear.

The Bombers seem to have stalled in their redevelopment very much aka Richmond under Wallace. They appear undermanned and not a lot of bright prospects on the horizon.

Would hope Benny and Dimma and crew stick to the long term plan and show the patience that we who support the yellow and black have shown over the past 30 years.

We need to make some smart culling and drafting over the next two seasons, especially ith the coast and ws taking the priority picks.

 

[TigerForce]

Come look into my crystal ball, TF!

It's Pantene re-building of a footy club - it won't happen overnight, but it will happen!

While I don't expect us to get near Geelong next week, I'll be interested to see if there are periods where we are able to stretch them by picking a fast team. This match is tailor made for Martin, Nason, Edwards, Foley, Deledio to show a clean pair of heels the way Carlton did today through Judd, Simpson, Gibbs, Murphy and Carazzo. Different quality for now I know.

And Phar Ace - you are spot on. The re-emergence is not guaranteed and that old chestnut of quality drafting and player development is going to need to be spot on. Will be the difference between us emerging as a quality side or as an Essendon.

Yeah it will happen for us, but it's a bit funny predicting that the teams you mentioned can't improve any further?

Maybe the only obvious failure at the moment is Essendon.