Talking Politics

[sabretooth]

Am I still very vague on the true meaning of the Man of Steal's new workplace laws or is it just me ?

If a person gets a new job in a small company signing the 'usual type' contract of employment, how do these new rules take affect?


Anybody got true clarification ?

TF, you should have watched Lateline tonight.

One thing - (the minister even agreed that this was correct) in a small business (less than 100 employees) the boss can sack you if he doesn't like you and there is no redress.  I'm not talking about if he doesn't like the way you work, or he doesn't like  the speed at which you work, or he doesn't like your attitude to work - he can certainly sack you for all those things - no, he can sack you if he just plainly doesn't like you.

That's progress, eh?

 

[sabretooth]

JB you only have to google the name and you will find plenty to read about them.

However here is an extract from the Sourcewatch website:

The HR Nicholls Society is a small but well-connected organisation dedicated to reducing the power of unions and promoting industrial relations changes that benefit employers.

According to its website, it aims:

To promote discussion about the operation of industrial relations in Australia including the system of determining wages and other conditions of employment.
To promote the rule of law with respect to employers and employee organisations alike.
To promote reform of the current wage-fixing system.
To support the necessity for labour relations to be conducted in such a way as to promote economic development in Australia.

History

The HR Nicholls Society was founded in 1985 by John Stone, former Secretary of the Commonwealth Treasury; Peter Costello, a Melbourne barrister and Liberal Party member who later became the national Treasurer , Barrie Purvis, the Director of the Australian Wool Selling Brokers' Employers' Federation; and Ray Evans, Executive Officer at Western Mining Corporation Limited. Ray Evans was also involved in founding the Lavoisier Group.

John Halfpenny, then Secretary of the Victorian Trades Hall Council, in his Arthur Calwell Memorial Lecture of 1986, described the H R Nicholls Society as "the Industrial Relations Branch of the Klu Klux Klan"

 

[TigerForce]

Am I still very vague on the true meaning of the Man of Steal's new workplace laws or is it just me ?

If a person gets a new job in a small company signing the 'usual type' contract of employment, how do these new rules take affect?


Anybody got true clarification ?

TF, you should have watched Lateline tonight.

One thing - (the minister even agreed that this was correct) in a small business (less than 100 employees) the boss can sack you if he doesn't like you and there is no redress.  I'm not talking about if he doesn't like the way you work, or he doesn't like  the speed at which you work, or he doesn't like your attitude to work - he can certainly sack you for all those things - no, he can sack you if he just plainly doesn't like you.

That's progress, eh?

Thanks Sabretooth, but if a contract is signed already, don't these new regulations have to be shown ?

How does the negotiating part come in ? Does this affect people already employed under a particular salary ?

This is totally confusing to me.

 

[sabretooth]

Oh, TF, one thing I forgot about the Lateline article on the new laws was Little Johnny Bonsai declaring all of this was necessary so we can compete with countries like China.

Why do I get the feeling that what he really wanted to say was that we will only truly compete with China when our workforce is earning the same wages as they do in China, and India and...

As to your other questions well not even some of the Liberal Party know all the answers.

 

[TigerForce]

Oh, TF, one thing I forgot about the Lateline article on the new laws was Little Johnny Bonsai declaring all of this was necessary so we can compete with countries like China.

Why do I get the feeling that what he really wanted to say was that we will only truly compete with China when our workforce is earning the same wages as they do in China, and India and...

As to your other questions well not even some of the Liberal Party know all the answers.

Last week on Today Tonight (or A Current affair), this *smile*'s comment to a bloke in Innisfail who had the guts to ask him if his town would be funded due to the cyclone was ...."I'm listening"

It's so obvious that ever since 9/11, he has turned Bush into his 'favourite player' and now virtually copies everything Bush does when you look at how 'social' he has become by always turning up at wherever the popular areas are (Games, Innisfail, GrandPrix, World cup qualifier etc.....)

 

[tigersnake]

Oh, TF, one thing I forgot about the Lateline article on the new laws was Little Johnny Bonsai declaring all of this was necessary so we can compete with countries like China.

Why do I get the feeling that what he really wanted to say was that we will only truly compete with China when our workforce is earning the same wages as they do in China, and India and...

there lies the heart of the matter. A global race to the bottom

 

[Legends of 2017]

Been watching the news and seeing headlines such as new laws will allow more job flexibility. I guess that's true, we will be able to be more flexible in that we will have more job opportunities because we can be sacked for no reason, thus allowing us the freedom to look for more work, in which we can be sacked from.
kevin andrews has got to be the most creepy looking politician ever. He reminds me of a mortician (no offence to morticians out there).

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=75347

"Workers could not be dismissed on grounds of discrimination such as their race or family responsibilities, Mr Andrews said." He keeps going on about this point as if it is somehow a highlight of his legislation. He is either stupid or thinks we are. That discrimination point may be true, but he keeps forgetting to point out that bosses DON'T have to give a reason to sack you!!!

 

[sabretooth]

...kevin andrews has got to be the most creepy looking politician ever. He reminds me of a mortician (no offence to morticians out there).

;D

This is the opening statement from the Hon Minister's website:

Welcome from the Hon. Kevin Andrews MP

As Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, my number one goal is to create more jobs and higher wages for more Australians.

How does that sit with Howard's demand that we compete on an equal footing with China? Higher wages will allow us to compete? doh!

 

[sabretooth]

Another thing about China - on ABC A.M. this morning something about China to be granted a licence to search for uranium in Oz?

Also mention that China might be permitted to mine for uranium in Oz.

Er, pardon me, it's not enough that we are turning Oz into a great big hole to satisfy the rest of the world's quest for minerals but we might let them in with their own bucket and spade?

As the Great Man might have said: "Pardon me Umpire!"

 

[Herewegotigers]

The new IR laws are just going to bigger and bigger , a friend of mine works for a lift company has just been offered their new contract - Flat Hourly rate for 24/7 , No penalties or OT.

The company will out source to workers from overseas if they do not get enough workers signing up on the new contract , this will take affect right accross the board.

Don't think this Can't happen to you!

 

[eight ace]

The new legislation covers employers who are 'constitutional corporations' - effectively trading companies. While the old legislation was partly based on the corporations power of the constitution, the new legislation is different in that it ropes in all constitutional corporations to the federal worplace relations system. It has been said such employers employ about 85% of the workforce.

The legislation makes an attempt to deinstitutionalise or deregulate the system, but it takes 1500 pages of legislation to do so. It creates the Australian Fair Pay Commission to set and adjust minimum wages and federal award conditions and administer the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard. There will no longer be a National Wage Case under the auspices of the AIRC.

Federal awards will continue to exist but the issues they cover will be further diminished. Also, the AIRC is undertaking an "Award rationalisation" which may involve combining a number of existing awards and abolishing others.

The main focus of the legisaltion will be on agreement making. Australian Workplace Agreements (individual agreements) and Collective Agreements will still exist but will be underpinned by the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard and by appropriate awards. The standard will apply to all workchoices agreements (those entered on or after 27 March 2006).

Those of you who are covered by state awards and instruments and who are employed by companies (not really relevant for Victorians) will continue to be covered by them for a transitional period of 3 years or until their employer implements a workchoices agreement. State awards will take the form of deemed or notional federal agreements. Eventually, the minimum rates and loadings across empoyment classifications will be standardised across all states.

If you are employed by a company and presently have AWAs or certified agreements in place, these will continue to apply during the transitional period, and the fair pay standard will not apply to them. If you are a non-award worker or do not have an existing state or federal agreement in place, the standard will provide for minimum wages and conditions. Any contract of employment that provides for conditions that are less generous than the standard will be over-ridden.

The Unfair dismissal regime (that is, harsh, unjust or unreasonable termination) will not apply to those employed for less than 6 months; those whose employment is terminated for genuine operational reasons; to those businesses with 100 or fewer employees and those engaged on a seasonal basis. Also does not apply to certain high-earning employees, but that has always been the case. Effectively, the right to make a statutory unfair dismissal application has been taken away from most Australian employees. Unlawful dismissal regimes remain in place.

There are a range of other changes which impact on union activity in particular.

To those of you who don't understand the changes, don't feel bad. They are lengthy and complex and I don't think anyone grasps fully how they will change the system yet. If anyone has any questions about the general changes feel free to address them to me and I will do my best to answer them within reason.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Thanks eight ace - that is excellent. It is a change for us Australian Citizens to get the bland facts - on which we can make our own decisions.

We normally get a slanted opinion from either the Government or the Opposition or the Union Movement or the Press.

I am sure that if we got the bland facts on all areas of Government Policy we as a people would make different decisions to those that we are making now. Yes I feel I am being led (by the nose) in a lot of circumstances.

Thanks again....RT

 

[pahoffm]

Well done 8ace.

 

[sabretooth]

Thanks for that clarification, Mr Eight, you're a real ace! ;D

Saw somebody last night on telly holding a copy of the new legislation - rather frightening the size of it and who knows what's hidden away inside it?

(I still want to know what you did with the old eight ace and all those adventures he had)

 

[TigerForce]

Thanks eightace. My eyes are still blurry.

 

[eight ace]

The old 8ace has been too busy reading the legislation. My head is still spinning. The regulations are a nightmare and my brain hurts trying to link it all together.

 

[TigerForce]

The old 8ace has been too busy reading the legislation. My head is still spinning. The regulations are a nightmare and my brain hurts trying to link it all together.

Looking at Howard's face is bad enough.

Let's call him Johnny Everywhere.

 

[Liverpool]

I'm a manager in a global company.

For years I have put-up with bludging/thieving workers, workers who worked hard when they were 'casual' and then when made 'full time' became the biggest pain in the arse cause they could get away with it, workers who knew that I had to give 3 verbal warnings and then 3 written warnings before getting the sack...and even then they had a chance at putting an unfair-dismissal claim through.....all the way causing unrest and morale problems with other staff. Just troublemakers! 

This 'scare' campaign about the new legislations are rubbish!

Managers do not want to lose their 'good' workers....its simple as that.

These new laws won't be an issue to the good workers out there.....it will only be an issue to the ones that have been riding on the backs of the good workers, and getting away with it.
Their time is up!  8)

Being a large company, I haven't sat down and really read whether these 'workchoices' are available to us, as a company,  and to what extent.
But if they are, not only can I then get rid of certain individuals, but the other workers who are excellent at what they do, will be more than happy with the new laws also.
So that to me can't be all bad...

PS: Just had a quick read...the official site says this:
"Under WorkChoices, employers who employ up to and including 100 employees* will be exempt from unfair dismissal laws"
Bummer!

 

[Gazza68]

I heard on the radio this morning about 2 apprentices that were given the flick by their boss. They were currently earning $25,000 p.a before tax, then they were told by their boss there lunchtime would be reduced as well as there smoko's & there wages would be cut back to $21,000 p.a before tax.They questioned the boss on how he could do this to them, then he apparently told them not to come back the next day. They were hoping to become builders when they finished, now they are not sure what will happen.
They say there is a shortage of skilled labour in our country, I can not see how this attitude towards employee's can help this situation. I thought this country was about giving everyone a fair go, not just the wealthy.

 

[RFC]

Run up the white flag. When Howard tells us he is the best friend the workers of this country ever had you know we're f....d.