Talking Politics

[Liverpool]

nitro,
Thats o.k mate...no hard feelings, and no offence taken!  :thumbsup
And agree with the rest of your post as well... :clap
Trust me, you aren't alone in your thoughts....if we were, Johnny wouldn't be going for 10 years (and counting!  )

Gypsy-Jazz,
Firstly, from a personal view, I have not done anything to any Aboriginal, and certainly do not want anyone saying 'Sorry' on my behalf, for something that myself, or any of my family have done to begin with!  :-X
Secondly, its not as easy as Johnny saying 'sorry' and thats it (if it was, he would have done it by now!).....but by saying "sorry" opens up a massive can of worms (a-la Canada and its Indians, and Austria and the Jews)...and by that, I mean massive financial payouts.
This is why the Aborigines are so hell-bent on trying to get Johnny (or Kimmy if he somehow pulls a miracle from his backside!  ) to say sorry, as they'll be rubbing their little hands in glee, as the dollars roll in from court case after court case.

tigersnake,
"But here is the clincher, they have actually had very little to do with the economic boom times of the last 12 years or so"
You must be joking mate... !
So, if someone started running a company after a predecessor retired, and 12 years later, it was in tip-top shape financially, then that has nothing to do with the current manager of that company???  :-\
I'd hate to have you as my director mate!  :hihi
C'mon...credit where credits due, even if you are a devout ALP voter!  :

Tigerforce,
While on the subject of walks...its a pity Michael Long, didn't keep on walking all the way to Palm Island or Redfern, instead of going to Canberra!  :-\
Aborigines need to start getting the chip off the shoulder and the "poor me" persecution complex, and start taking responsibility for their actions.
They have the largest rate of truancy amongst their school-age children, and you can't blame the Government for that now, surely!  :
Parents, whether they are unemployed/drunks/homeless or not, still should have the responsibility and sense to learn from their mistakes, and make sure their kids go to school, so the next generation of Aboriginals coming through can be valuable members of society.

 

[tigersnake]

?

 

[tigersnake]

As usual Liverpudlian you have absolutely no bloody idea what you are talking about.

 

[Curtiger]

Rudd? Gillard? who cares... :...the only way the Libs could lose it would be to do something stupid, or get too cocky (a la Kennett) and get a backlash from the public.

This quote is my favourite, Tigersnake. His rhetorical and cognitive skills summed up perfectly.

 

[RemoteTiger]

WOW!

Where do I start -

Nitro - during the last century when Australia was in its greatest turmoil it was Labour Gvernments who lead us out of the mire (after the bloody conservatives put us in it) Check who was in power during the 2 World Wars and the depression) Check who put us in Vietnam - check who got us out!

Liverpool - it is common knowledge that economic reforms take anywhere from 3 to 10 years before they bear fruit - the reason why Australia is running well now is due to the Hawke/Keating economic reforms of the late 80's and early 90's and the stable world economy - Johnny inherited an excellent economic situation - fact it was the Labour Government reforms that helped us through the Asian economic crisis of last decade.

To all and sundry

Once the Media reform laws are enacted and the ownership of both TV Newspapers and internet multi media is relaxed in this country we might start seeing some true reporting on all the misgivings of this Government - until then the media will paint the Howard Government with rose coloured glasses.  The media needs Howard in to get their industry reform laws through - for it is certain the Labor will not hand such enourmus power to one group in our society.

In conclusion -

Labour has in therory the best democratic process for providing candidates for election yet our press paints it as in-fighting. The Libs have the old school tie selection process whilst the Nationals go on who has the biggest sheep farm. Democracy is about contesting via a voting process not who you played with at school or uni.

Under this Government the Westminster System has been degraded to such an extent that all cabinet ministers now have suits of teflon - nothing sticks to them - but wait until the media laws change and all of the mud will start to stick

 

[chislop]

It is not Labour, it is Labor.

 

[Anduril]

WOW!


To all and sundry

Once the Media reform laws are enacted and the ownership of both TV Newspapers and internet multi media is relaxed in this country we might start seeing some true reporting on all the misgivings of this Government - until then the media will paint the Howard Government with rose coloured glasses. The media needs Howard in to get their industry reform laws through - for it is certain the Labor will not hand such enourmus power to one group in our society.

Do you really think so? I would've thought once PBL, Fox/Muudoch get a paper, TV/station we'll get no balanced coverage, not that we do now!

 

[RemoteTiger]

WOW!


To all and sundry

Once the Media reform laws are enacted and the ownership of both TV Newspapers and internet multi media is relaxed in this country we might start seeing some true reporting on all the misgivings of this Government - until then the media will paint the Howard Government with rose coloured glasses.  The media needs Howard in to get their industry reform laws through - for it is certain the Labor will not hand such enourmus power to one group in our society.

Do you really think so? I would've thought once PBL, Fox/Muudoch get a paper, TV/station we'll get no balanced coverage, not that we do now!

I agree there will be a serious imbalance - but it will be in favour of the political party that provides policies that are the best value to the media companies bottom line - there have been times in the past when that has been Labor.

We will never get a balanced view from the Australian Media - Privately owned is concerned only with its profits and not the truth and the ABC is full of lefties who are only concerned with the environment

 

[poppa x]

There is no balanced media in Australia. They either support the left or the right. The vast majority of us are in the middle yet no media outlet represents our views and aspirations.

 

[Chelsea]

RemoteTiger.... Hawke/Keating.. of course you are talking about the 'recession we had to have'........That's why they got voted out, everyone had enough of their economic stuff-ups. It's a well know fact that LabOr don't manage the money all too well. See how we end up after Bracks has finished his 'big spender' go here in Victoria. Hate to think of the mess he'll leave.
I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the media only report on the government, through their 'rose coloured glasses' as it very obvious that the ABC definitely lean to the left.... and they are supposed to be the 'government' channel. Maybe you, along with the other 'lefties' here should look at LabOr after removing your 'rose-coloured glasses' too.

 

[nitrotiger]

WOW!

Where do I start -

Nitro - during the last century when Australia was in its greatest turmoil it was Labour Gvernments who lead us out of the mire (after the bloody conservatives put us in it) Check who was in power during the 2 World Wars and the depression) Check who put us in Vietnam - check who got us out!

Liverpool - it is common knowledge that economic reforms take anywhere from 3 to 10 years before they bear fruit - the reason why Australia is running well now is due to the Hawke/Keating economic reforms of the late 80's and early 90's and the stable world economy - Johnny inherited an excellent economic situation - fact it was the Labour Government reforms that helped us through the Asian economic crisis of last decade.

To all and sundry

Once the Media reform laws are enacted and the ownership of both TV Newspapers and internet multi media is relaxed in this country we might start seeing some true reporting on all the misgivings of this Government - until then the media will paint the Howard Government with rose coloured glasses.  The media needs Howard in to get their industry reform laws through - for it is certain the Labor will not hand such enourmus power to one group in our society.

In conclusion -

Labour has in therory the best democratic process for providing candidates for election yet our press paints it as in-fighting. The Libs have the old school tie selection process whilst the Nationals go on who has the biggest sheep farm. Democracy is about contesting via a voting process not who you played with at school or uni.

Under this Government the Westminster System has been degraded to such an extent that all cabinet ministers now have suits of teflon - nothing sticks to them - but wait until the media laws change and all of the mud will start to stick

MMMMM....Let me see.....1975........Bloody roos done us in the prelim...cost us a crack at TRIPLE premiership glory......nowhere near as bad as the state then was........Strikes on a weekly basis.....double-digit inflation.....even worse interest rates...unions outta control,then the treasurer at the time tried to get i big loan of khemlani,a dubious little nappy wearing middle east joker.......
Gough probanly had a good plan then SOMEBODY SOMEHOW MANAGED TO STUFF UP.......
Geez........those those were the days......

Wont get into a debate on the politics of war mate....had relatives and friends long gone who gave me the INSIDE MAIL especially on World war 1 and 2........
Granted about Vietnam......the government of the time had a lot to answer for.........denyin agent orange and a lot of stuff....THAT government at the time were like most of my aunties and uncles......
RIGHT WING,CONSERVATIVE,HYPOCRYTICAL,SELF-RIGHTCEOUS BOZOS WHO BELIEVED IN teenagers being seen and not heard(htank Jesus,Mry and St Joseph for Deep Purple,Led Zeppelin,etc.......
My point being...Im neither left of right....and furthermore....threres a lot more I would LUV to know about how the world works sometimes........cheers! :hihi

 

[TigerForce]

WOW!

Where do I start -

Nitro - during the last century when Australia was in its greatest turmoil it was Labour Gvernments who lead us out of the mire (after the bloody conservatives put us in it) Check who was in power during the 2 World Wars and the depression) Check who put us in Vietnam - check who got us out!

Liverpool - it is common knowledge that economic reforms take anywhere from 3 to 10 years before they bear fruit - the reason why Australia is running well now is due to the Hawke/Keating economic reforms of the late 80's and early 90's and the stable world economy - Johnny inherited an excellent economic situation - fact it was the Labour Government reforms that helped us through the Asian economic crisis of last decade.

To all and sundry

Once the Media reform laws are enacted and the ownership of both TV Newspapers and internet multi media is relaxed in this country we might start seeing some true reporting on all the misgivings of this Government - until then the media will paint the Howard Government with rose coloured glasses.  The media needs Howard in to get their industry reform laws through - for it is certain the Labor will not hand such enourmus power to one group in our society.

In conclusion -

Labour has in therory the best democratic process for providing candidates for election yet our press paints it as in-fighting. The Libs have the old school tie selection process whilst the Nationals go on who has the biggest sheep farm. Democracy is about contesting via a voting process not who you played with at school or uni.

Under this Government the Westminster System has been degraded to such an extent that all cabinet ministers now have suits of teflon - nothing sticks to them - but wait until the media laws change and all of the mud will start to stick

MMMMM....Let me see.....1975........Bloody roos done us in the prelim...cost us a crack at TRIPLE premiership glory......nowhere near as bad as the state then was........Strikes on a weekly basis.....double-digit inflation.....even worse interest rates...unions outta control,then the treasurer at the time tried to get i big loan of khemlani,a dubious little nappy wearing middle east joker.......
Gough probanly had a good plan then SOMEBODY SOMEHOW MANAGED TO STUFF UP.......
Geez........those those were the days......

Wont get into a debate on the politics of war mate....had relatives and friends long gone who gave me the INSIDE MAIL especially on World war 1 and 2........
Granted about Vietnam......the government of the time had a lot to answer for.........denyin agent orange and a lot of stuff....THAT  government at the time were like most of my aunties and uncles......
RIGHT WING,CONSERVATIVE,HYPOCRYTICAL,SELF-RIGHTCEOUS BOZOS WHO BELIEVED IN teenagers being seen and not heard(htank Jesus,Mry and St Joseph for Deep Purple,Led Zeppelin,etc.......
My point being...Im neither left of right....and furthermore....threres a lot more I would LUV to know about how the world works sometimes........cheers! :hihi

1975..........Malcolm Fraser sounded more poshy............Sherbet and Skyhooks hit the charts.........Colour TV showed a difference between North & Collingwood jumpers :hihi ..................and I used to catch the old blue train to school.

 

[Liverpool]

Liverpool - it is common knowledge that economic reforms take anywhere from 3 to 10 years before they bear fruit - the reason why Australia is running well now is due to the Hawke/Keating economic reforms of the late 80's and early 90's and the stable world economy - Johnny inherited an excellent economic situation - fact it was the Labour Government reforms that helped us through the Asian economic crisis of last decade.

RemoteTiger,
As say mate...even if he did inherit the so-called "economic reforms" that the ALP started, Johnny and the Coalition have still had to deal with the Asian financial slump and a recession in the USA (stable world economy over the lest 10 years you say? ???) and high oil/fuel prices, yet still been able to reduce the unemployment levels from 8% (when Keating got the boot) down to 5%....and inflation/interest-rates have taken a nose-dive under the Coalition as well.
Now, pleeeease don't tell me that what Johnny has done in 10 years is ALL because of what the ALP started 10-15 years ago? : ....that would be ridiculous!
Like I posted earlier....you might not like the Libs, but credit where credits due, thanks!

 

[Ready]

I would laugh at your unemployment down from 8% to 5% comment if it weren't so serious.

The reduction in unemployment is directly related to the vast increase in the number of Australians who are underemployed -- those who would like to work more but can't. Under casualisation they can either like it or lump it. If you make barely more than you would on the dole, you're still better off, aren't you? Welcome to Howard's Australia.

Then there's the slight matter of Australia's continued economic growth being basically driven by debt. Let's look at the housing market as an example. Someone who bought a house in 1991 would have been lumbered with a 17% interest rate. BUT, because the house was most likely bought for less than its true value, the payments were manageable and that person now has an asset worth a lot more than both its purchase value and true value. People who bought a property in the last few years are dealing with low interest rates but have most likely paid well over the odds for their purchase. The monthly payments are crippling to many as it is... wait until the next economic downturn and watch the disaster unfold. And what did Howard do to keep the fires of the property market raging? -- that's right, the first homeowner's grant. Howard's wonderful economic management at work.

 

[Jools]

People who bought a property in the last few years are dealing with low interest rates but have most likely paid well over the odds for their purchase. The monthly payments are crippling to many as it is... wait until the next economic downturn and watch the disaster unfold. And what did Howard do to keep the fires of the property market raging? -- that's right, the first homeowner's grant. Howard's wonderful economic management at work.

The State Government put in place a first home owners grant before the Federal Government did.

As for buying homes - when we were looking in the early 90's when interest rates were high, we looked at the Labor State Governments scheme to help low income earners buy a home. I'm so glad we didn't, because that ended up a disaster for a lot of people. We bought when interest rates were on the way down after the highs of 17%. Housing prices took so long to recover, that we couldn't sell for a viable price 5 years later.

 

[Anduril]

Employment figures include anyone who has worked for 1 hour in a week.

 

[Ready]

Employment figures include anyone who has worked for 1 hour   in a week.

Exactly, although the more common case of underemployment is the person who wants to work 38 hours a week but can only find 25 hours worth.

The State Government put in place a first home owners grant before the Federal Government did.

In Victoria yes, but not in every state. The Federal grant was also available on top of any state grants and gave the whole thing a real kick along.

As for buying homes - when we were looking in the early 90's when interest rates were high, we looked at the Labor State Governments scheme to help low income earners buy a home. I'm so glad we didn't, because that ended up a disaster for a lot of people. We bought when interest rates were on the way down after the highs of 17%. Housing prices took so long to recover, that we couldn't sell for a viable price 5 years later.

My statements above apply to the average income earner.

Mortgage payments are tough at any time. But take a 30-year mortgage 15 years ago and today on the same house. If you bought the property in 1991 (at 17%) the property was undervalued, and 15 years on it is now overvalued, so the person has a healthy return on their investment if they still have the house.

Nowadays, the house itself is severely overvalued. So despite the much lower interest rates, the monthly repayments are more than what you would have been making 15 years ago, even allowing for inflation, and allowing for wage increases that improve the person's ability to make the payments. The person 15 years ago knew the house was undervalued and that if they held on to it long enough its value would return to its true value, and eventually above. The person today has a house with an artificially inflated value: perhaps its value will continue to increase, but eventually it won't.

Schemes for low-income earners to buy a house at 17%?! Terrible idea, namely because low-income earners are obviously severely restricted in choice of property. Unless such a person bought a run-down inner-city house before gentrification got into full swing then improvement to the value of the property is hit and miss at best. It would only be worth it if you can see the value of your investment improving. No wonder you didn't take it up, Jools.

And yes, overall it did take house prices some time to recover -- but look at them now!

 

[tigersnake]

RemoteTiger.... Hawke/Keating.. of course you are talking about the 'recession we had to have'........That's why they got voted out, everyone had enough of their economic stuff-ups. It's a well know fact that LabOr don't manage the money all too well. See how we end up after Bracks has finished his 'big spender' go here in Victoria. Hate to think of the mess he'll leave.
I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the media only report on the government, through their 'rose coloured glasses' as it very obvious that the ABC definitely lean to the left.... and they are supposed to be the 'government' channel. Maybe you, along with the other 'lefties' here should look at LabOr after removing your 'rose-coloured glasses' too.

Geez we've got some razor sharp political analysts on here. Appreciate your work ready and andy, but I think its in one ear and out the um whatchacalem with some

 

[Anduril]

:inlove

 

[RemoteTiger]

What a great leader we have - any time the *smile* hits the fan he claims he was never told - yet today we have proof that he and his colleagues were advised by the Office of National Assessment of the Wheat for oil transport bribes to Saddam way back in 1998. Specifically against United Nations directions and providing the enemy with funds to support terrorism or to buy or manufacture weapons of mass destruction (which were never found)!

Now either he is telling fibs - which our honest johnny would never do

Or

He does not have a clue what is going on because he is never told and is therefore running our country blind of the facts - doesn't the Westminster System insist that Ministers create processes within their portfolios/departments that will highlight anything untoward. Now surely National Security comes under the Prime Ministers portfolio and therefore he should know all the good and the bad that is going on - to make the necessary decisions to protect us all!

How true the adage "a government is only as strong as its opposition allows it to be!"

To quote a well known king - "My kindom, my kingdom for a decent opposition"...........or was that horse?

Can someone somewhere bring some honesty back into our leaders (on both sides of the house) - please can we have real leaders that do away with the political rat packs we have now!
 
Come on Australians stand up to Howard and Beasley and say pissoff - we want a leader whom we can trust and respect.....