Steve Hocking

[gold1]

Come on guys now talking about ground advantages/disadvantages is really drawing a long bow.Reckon all teams have a home ground advantage in some way . Those that dwell at Marvel know it will be dry at the same time it could be pouring at the G.Potential for massive percentage swings.Geelong at Kardinia Park know the quirks around their ground,and that will change again once the city stand is finished as the wind will be less of a factor.Give credit to Geelong for the win.Will they end up higher than the Tiges with their list next year,not likely IMO.Would they have beaten us like they did the Lions and Swanss? I think not.

 

[BillyJean17]

Going back and looking at some games from 2020, I don’t see us manning the mark much differently to other teams, everyone was shifting around on the mark and cutting off angles into the corridor. Maybe it was more important to our way of defending, but I don’t see much difference in the way we did it compared to other teams, so the rule change is really a disadvantage to everyone.

I think the 6-6-6 rule was much more of a disadvantage to us and the way we played, we would regularly start with 7 in the back line with Kane lambert starting there and pushing up once the ball bounced, limiting any quick centre breaks for the opposition, and given we were never a high contested possession team this was important. We were still able to overcome it though and win another 2 flags.

Agreed and I always refer to ‘20 GF when Pickett had a free on wing from great tackle , then his handball was smothered as man on mark moved laterally,,,there you have it EXHIBIT A

 

[BillyJean17]

Come on guys now talking about ground advantages/disadvantages is really drawing a long bow.Reckon all teams have a home ground advantage in some way . Those that dwell at Marvel know it will be dry at the same time it could be pouring at the G.Potential for massive percentage swings.Geelong at Kardinia Park know the quirks around their ground,and that will change again once the city stand is finished as the wind will be less of a factor.Give credit to Geelong for the win.Will they end up higher than the Tiges with their list next year,not likely IMO.Would they have beaten us like they did the Lions and Swanss? I think not.

Let’s face it playing lions and swans to win flag was kind of dream run really

 

[TigerFurious]

Reckon the Geelong ground size is massively overdone on here.

It's 1.5m longer each end and 4m narrower on each side than Adelaide Oval.

It’s not the size but the shape. Massive advantage, easily two wins extra a year. It’s the difference between top 8 and top 4 or finals and no finals.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSAbw7GXnAfkprvPpNunQ7_rPrgdrGy_HZ5jg&usqp=CAU

 

[Harry]

Surely the AFL will introduce a new rule or 2 to peg back Geelongs dominance.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Hocking the man the that changed the rules to stop a side dominating
The media have just turned a blind eye to it.
"Football in 2022 was unbelievable" "Football hasn't been this good"
Why? Who rates the seasons? the premiership team or the wooden spooner??
3 yrs of rule changes gifts a flag to a team that was always finishing short.
Pity 99% of the football media a Geelong knuckle heads.
Did they do it for Ablett or Selwood yesterday??

 

[TigerForce]

Let’s face it playing lions and swans to win flag was kind of dream run really

Nearly lost to Scumwood if it wasn't for Sherlock in the last minutes.

 

[The Big Richo]

It’s not the size but the shape. Massive advantage, easily two wins extra a year. It’s the difference between top 8 and top 4 or finals and no finals.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSAbw7GXnAfkprvPpNunQ7_rPrgdrGy_HZ5jg&usqp=CAU

These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.

 

[seven]

Hocking the man the that changed the rules to stop a side dominating
The media have just turned a blind eye to it.
"Football in 2022 was unbelievable" "Football hasn't been this good"
Why? Who rates the seasons? the premiership team or the wooden spooner??
3 yrs of rule changes gifts a flag to a team that was always finishing short.
Pity 99% of the football media a Geelong knuckle heads.
Did they do it for Ablett or Selwood yesterday??

Yep, but crowds and tv ratings were down.
But still, best season ever.

 

[Mycotchinrules]

These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.

What about the pathetic capacity of the ground?

Even after the extension that tax payers are funding.

When a club with 100,000+ members can't get what, 5000 supporters in? That's a massive advantage. Plus they train there.

I bet they play gold coast, north, west coast, Adelaide down there next season. 16 premiership points gifted without breaking a sweat.

If they are such a massive, successful club, then play your home games at the MCG.

 

[gold1]

Grounds have little to do with premierships.It is the team on the day that bears fruit.
The Swans as South Melbourne got 3 flags from playing at Dorcas
North 1 at Arden
Saints 1 at moorabin
Hawks 2 at Glenferrie
Dogs 1 at Whitten

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Yep, but crowds and tv ratings were down.
But still, best season ever.

The media hide things.
They have feasted that 23 more people went to the GF the highest number since 1986. Big Deal. 15,000 Richmond people couldn't get a ticket for the 17 GF.
It was a sell out too so was the 2019 GF.
If you think a bloke standing on the mark, unable to move is good football, you have no idea
It's a *smile* laughable rule.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Grounds have little to do with premierships.It is the team on the day that bears fruit.
The Swans as South Melbourne got 3 flags from playing at Dorcas
North 1 at Arden
Saints 1 at moorabin
Hawks 2 at Glenferrie
Dogs 1 at Whitten

Totally different comp to now. A home game was a home game. Majority of teams didn’t share grounds. Geelong are the only team in the competition that get to regularly train on the same ground they play games on.

 

[Mac]

These guys do some really great analysis of the game and had a look at it earlier in the season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06...medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

As you can see, there's stuff all difference in Geelong's play at home or far away. Only real change at Kardinia Park is you get more throw-ins instead of ball-ups.

Even to the MCG you are talking +5 long and -13 wide each way, it's just not enough to make much difference.

Or to put it a different way, 10m longer, 26m narrower. Sounds a bit more significant when put like that!
It‘s also shaped like a D.

While that report does show that Geelong play statistically similarly home and away, it also says:

It's been a good 15 years for Geelong fans, with the Cats experiencing a level of success that the club hasn't seen for at least half a century. Key to that success has been their ability to win at home and build a fortress out of Kardinia Park. Long and narrow, Kardinia Park is the most unique ground right now.

I’m one of those that’s make noises about the ground. Sounds like a fair old home ground advantage to me TBR.

Anyway, they were the best team this year. I can’t deny that.

 

[tigersnake]

I don't begrudge Geelong KP. Its their home ground, their traditions, good luck to them. I think its a bit wrong headed myself, I think for them its a double edged sword.

 

[The Big Richo]

It's been a good 15 years for Geelong fans, with the Cats experiencing a level of success that the club hasn't seen for at least half a century. Key to that success has been their ability to win at home and build a fortress out of Kardinia Park. Long and narrow, Kardinia Park is the most unique ground right now.

In that 15 years they've won 4 flags and finished outside the top four about four times. They haven't been losing many anywhere.

 

[gold1]

Totally different comp to now. A home game was a home game. Majority of teams didn’t share grounds. Geelong are the only team in the competition that get to regularly train on the same ground they play games on.

Serious? Last time I looked Grand Finals have been played at the G.Covid changed that in recent times.To repeat my previous claim it is not the ground but the team on the day that matters.The recent Tiges flags are a case in point.

 

[Mr Brightside]

IMHO all grounds should be as close as possible to a set size and shape, AFL has enough money to make this happen , just about every other sport uses the same size playing field at each venue , certainly all the footballing codes do

Especially considering we do not have an even draw

 

[snags]

The media hide things.
They have feasted that 23 more people went to the GF the highest number since 1986. Big Deal. 15,000 Richmond people couldn't get a ticket for the 17 GF.
It was a sell out too so was the 2019 GF.
If you think a bloke standing on the mark, unable to move is good football, you have no idea
It's a *smile* laughable rule.

It was only 3 more than 2017 but I've heard guys in the MCC call *smile* apparently it wasn't packed as previous years.

In 2017 I gave my ticket to a bloke inside who managed to get at least half dozen others in. He was passing the ticket out of the AFL member's grate and the turnstile would let whoever had the ticket straight through. So unofficially I reckon 2017 was the larger crowd!

 

[RoarEmotion]

In that 15 years they've won 4 flags and finished outside the top four about four times. They haven't been losing many anywhere.

To your point you need to look at the delta between H performance and A performance compared to other teams discrepancy in H and A performance - which then eliminates the strength of the team and just leaves behind H vs A.

So using the all time data at AFL tables

AFL Tables - Team Win-Loss Records

I sorted every team for every game played by delta between win percentage at home and win percentage away. This is all time data so would incorporate suburban ground stuff for all the VIC teams. Geelong is clearly the Victorian team with the biggest discrepancy so I don't think the contrarian view in this case holds any water at all.

No surprise that all the non-VIC teams show high on this discrepancy too as they have to play interstate and clearly receive umpiring bias for at least the noise of affirmation if not the local umpires who grew up on hating Vics at their often packed-out home venues (vs 20k at Mel v Freo at the G)

Moorabin also seems to have done well for St Kilda. If we got more recent data - say since WCE entered competition I'd imagine we would see all the Vic teams that use Waverly/MCG/Telstra be in that 10-15% bracket and and interstate and Geelong in the 20%+ discrepancy. Massive leg up vs other teams with similar away win percentages.

Also no team with a negative bias...

Delta	Home	Away
	Team	P	W	D	L	Win%	Team	P	W	D	L	Win%
4.76​	University	63	15	1	47	24.6	University	63	12	1	50	19.84
11.15​	Melbourne	1197	608	8	581	51.13	Melbourne	1198	473	12	713	39.98
11.27​	North Melbourne	983	481	13	489	49.59	North Melbourne	989	377	4	608	38.32
12.96​	Hawthorn	983	538	5	440	54.98	Hawthorn	990	412	8	570	42.02
13.23​	Essendon	1206	751	17	438	62.98	Essendon	1203	590	17	596	49.75
13.6​	Collingwood	1219	834	8	377	68.74	Collingwood	1216	663	15	538	55.14
13.79​	Carlton	1215	778	17	420	64.73	Carlton	1220	614	15	591	50.94
14.03​	Richmond	1126	650	15	461	58.39	Richmond	1126	495	9	622	44.36
15.51​	Fitzroy	934	489	14	431	53.1	Fitzroy	935	346	11	578	37.59
15.56​	Greater Western Sydney	118	60	1	57	51.27	Greater Western Sydney	119	41	3	75	35.71
15.92​	Sydney	1211	679	10	522	56.48	Sydney	1213	485	14	714	40.56
17.24​	Western Bulldogs	986	534	14	438	54.87	Western Bulldogs	986	367	8	611	37.63
17.91​	Gold Coast	131	46	2	83	35.88	Gold Coast	128	23		105	17.97
18.33​	Port Adelaide	284	177	2	105	62.68	Port Adelaide	283	124	3	156	44.35
18.34​	St Kilda	1201	579	13	609	48.75	St Kilda	1202	359	13	830	30.41
20.64​	Brisbane Lions	284	165	3	116	58.63	Brisbane Lions	283	106	3	174	37.99
22.41​	Geelong	1200	800	11	389	67.13	Geelong	1193	528	11	654	44.72
23.28​	Adelaide	348	221		127	63.51	Adelaide	348	139	2	207	40.23
24.92​	West Coast	394	270	1	123	68.65	West Coast	391	169	4	218	43.73
25.69​	Brisbane Bears	109	49	1	59	45.41	Brisbane Bears	109	21	1	87	19.72
25.74​	Fremantle	307	178		129	57.98	Fremantle	304	97	2	205	32.24