Russia Invades Ukraine

[The_General]

I wish them luck and hope they get in. Ukrainians are good people who are unfortunately suffering under poor leadership.

Wow. Just wow. If there's anything I wouldn't say about Ukraine, it's that they're poorly led.

I think Russia will eventually get the Eastern Ukraine. I think they will pay a horrendous cost to do it, but Putin is a
lunatic, and the ends will justify the means in his eyes.

 

[Harry]

They broke the Minsk agreement and kept shelling the Russian speakers in the east during the past 8 years killing approx 15,000 civilians. This war began in 2014 not 2022.
They refused to listen to russia's demands and took on a superpower thinking the west would come to their aid
They take orders from the US and the Nazi's even condoning the nazi atrocities in the east - Zelensky saying "they are what they are"
They will lose the eastern donbas region but more importantly the whole south coast. Thousands of more lives will be lost as they refuse to negotiate a peace settlement.
Putin is as much a lunatic as Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush etc and any other superpower leader - they should have known this, especially when he's on their border.
The US will lose interest and move onto another war elsewhere.
The country will be left in ruins and it'll take many years to rebuild.
If this isn't poor leadership I don't know what is.
Expecting Ant to jump in to tell everyone that I'm spewing russian propaganda and I'm a Putin puppet or whatever, coz that's what he does.

 

[mrposhman]

They broke the Minsk agreement and kept shelling the Russian speakers in the east during the past 8 years killing approx 15,000 civilians. This war began in 2014 not 2022.
They refused to listen to russia's demands and took on a superpower thinking the west would come to their aid
They take orders from the US and the Nazi's even condoning the nazi atrocities in the east - Zelensky saying "they are what they are"
They will lose the eastern donbas region but more importantly the whole south coast. Thousands of more lives will be lost as they refuse to negotiate a peace settlement.
Putin is as much a lunatic as Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush etc and any other superpower leader - they should have known this, especially when he's on their border.
The US will lose interest and move onto another war elsewhere.
The country will be left in ruins and it'll take many years to rebuild.
If this isn't poor leadership I don't know what is.
Expecting Ant to jump in to tell everyone that I'm spewing russian propaganda and I'm a Putin puppet or whatever, coz that's what he does.

So the Russians are the good guys then?
There is a lot of propaganda from both sides, but you only seem to believe the Russian side. Likewise you will assign that those that are more on Ukraines side only believe their propaganda, but many of us see both sides, and only see 1 aggressor here.

Why did the war in 2014 start again? Remind us of that.
Oh and on the shelling since 2014, I'm sure that shelling was only by Ukrainian troops right? Russian troops don't shell cities do they.

 

[Harry]

So the Russians are the good guys then?
There is a lot of propaganda from both sides, but you only seem to believe the Russian side. Likewise you will assign that those that are more on Ukraines side only believe their propaganda, but many of us see both sides, and only see 1 aggressor here.

Why did the war in 2014 start again? Remind us of that.
Oh and on the shelling since 2014, I'm sure that shelling was only by Ukrainian troops right? Russian troops don't shell cities do they.

The only thing that cannot be denied is the propaganda from both sides.
World superpowers are the bad guys who need their nuclear toys taken away from them. This is a proxy war between the US and Russia and unfortunately Ukraine is paying the price. There will never be world peace as long as we have nuclear weapons in the hands of mad men who want to dominate others.
The war started in 2014 when a coup led by the US and the Nazis from western Ukraine overthrew the government. Western media will deny this but there is ample evidence out there that this is the case.

 

[Harry]

but many of us see both sides, and only see 1 aggressor here.

There's been plenty of aggression by Ukrainian forces and nazis against russian speakers in the east since 2014. Ukrainian forces bombed and shelled it's own cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, nazi far right killied 48 people in the Odessa Trade Union building, mass killings and graves in eastern towns/villages of ukraine. Just some atrocities committed against it's own people. The Govt and military have been hijacked by nazis and given carte blanche to do as they please. The west is openly supporting nazis - the azov fighters with nazi symbols on their uniforms and bodies are made out to be heros. Plenty of western media coverage about the azov nazis until they changed their tune just recently. The first casualty of war is the truth.

 

[AngryAnt]

Expecting Ant to jump in to tell everyone that I'm spewing russian propaganda and I'm a Putin puppet or whatever, coz that's what he does.

Nah dude, everyone knows that already, no point pointing it out again.

I'll just remind you that Russia sent the little green men into Crimea in 2014, annexed it, then sponsored the "independent" states of Donbas and Luhansk which then operated as mini-Russian kleptocracies - one reason why many Russian speakers fled into and why the only reason Russia retains these territories is because they are run through fear and corruption.

This year they invaded the rest of Ukraine and would have taken Kyiv if not for the bravery of the Ukrainian people and the military and financial support of the US and the EU. So Ukraine has pushed them back to the regions previously occupied East where they are relentless shelling small towns and cities into submission. It's very much the US strategy in Vietnam - in order to save the village we have to destroy the village.

Now according to you, if say Russia retain the east which has been bombed to the shizenhausen the Ukrainians have the US to blamefor this. But as we know Putin wanted the whole of Ukraine and the plan was to install another puppet government. WTF dude.

PS you still don't know what the Russians mean by the term "Nazi". To the Russians this means a Russian speaker who resists the expansion of the Russian empire, not a German with SS insignia.

Plenty of Russian speakers in the east of Ukraine are "Nazis" because they prefer to live in a free, relatively non-corrupt state that is aligned to the West rather than be part of Putin's fascist kleptocratic state/puppet state.

 

[Harry]

PS you still don't know what the Russians mean by the term "Nazi". To the Russians this means a Russian speaker who resists the expansion of the Russian empire, not a German with SS insignia.

Plenty of Russian speakers in the east of Ukraine are "Nazis" because they prefer to live in a free, relatively non-corrupt state that is aligned to the West rather than be part of Putin's fascist kleptocratic state/puppet state.

Like these guys?


Let's send more weapons to them so they can fight for our democracy.

 

[mrposhman]

Like these guys?
View attachment 15617
View attachment 15618
Let's send more weapons to them so they can fight for our democracy.

Yes because that amazing and peace loving nation like Russia would never embed themselves with any neo-nazi groups would they.

Who Are The Neo-Nazis Fighting For Russia In Ukraine?

The Kremlin has claimed its war on Ukraine is aimed at “de-Nazifying” the country. What about the neo-Nazi groups actively fighting on the Russian side?

www.rferl.org

There are neo nazi groups IN EVERY COUNTRY IN EASTERN EUROPE. Its probably 1 of the most racist parts of the globe. Take a look at it from a sport perspective, most if not all of the football associations in that part of the world have been impacted with sanctions from either UEFA or FIFA for racist behaviour. Russia is 1 of the biggest culprits of this, but of course to you, they don't do any harm.

BTW - How many cities have these nasty Ukrainians levelled?

 

[Harry]

All nazis, fascists and nazi sympathizers should be wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm sure there are nazis in russia - never said there weren't.

I wouldn't be trusting too much of what that website says btw. They're controlled by a U.S. Agency for Global Media, a government agency overseeing all U.S. federal government international broadcasting services.

 

[jb03]

I don't typically agree with H on this thread but those images he posted are disturbing.

 

[mrposhman]

All nazis, fascists and nazi sympathizers should be wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm sure there are nazis in russia - never said there weren't.

I wouldn't be trusting too much of what that website says btw. They're controlled by a U.S. Agency for Global Media, a government agency overseeing all U.S. federal government international broadcasting services.

Mate that last comment is laughable. So you are inferring that Russia is the only country in Eastern Europe that doesn't include Neo Nazis in their population. Sure, believe that if you want.

 

[mrposhman]

I don't typically agree with H on this thread but those images he posted are disturbing.

Yes they are, but the inference that Neo Nazis are Ukraines issue and aren't part of Russia is laughable.

 

[mrposhman]

All nazis, fascists and nazi sympathizers should be wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm sure there are nazis in russia - never said there weren't.

I wouldn't be trusting too much of what that website says btw. They're controlled by a U.S. Agency for Global Media, a government agency overseeing all U.S. federal government international broadcasting services.

Is this website ok then

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.

theconversation.com

A similar report on the ABC

How Putin cultivated homegrown neo-Nazis for his own ends

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim that he is waging war to "de-Nazify" Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists, writes Robert Horvath.

www.abc.net.au

What about this one then?

CIDOB - “Russia for Russians!” Ultranationalism and xenophobia in Russia: from marginality to state promoted philosophy

The course of Russian development over the past decade has explicitly shown that both internal milieu and foreign policy domain have expressed staggering s...

www.cidob.org

Or this one

Latest breaking news and videos of European and World | Eupoliticalreport

Find all national and international information about Europe and Worlds. News about economy, politics, diplomacy and others. Stay with us.

www.eupoliticalreport.eu

Which websites are you allowing people to use then? Only the ones that showcase Russian propaganda and none the other way?

 

[Harry]

So you are inferring that Russia is the only country in Eastern Europe that doesn't include Neo Nazis in their population. Sure, believe that if you want.

Not sure where you're getting that from

 

[AngryAnt]

I don't typically agree with H on this thread but those images he posted are disturbing.

There's no doubt that there are far right actors in the Ukrainian resistance along with all the other elements you find in any society - just like we have here in Australia too.

This is a good relatively neutral article which looks at both the far right parts of the Ukranian resistance in the East and what is generally meant by "nazis" in the Russian political and propaganda contexts.

Russia says it’s fighting Nazis in Ukraine. It doesn’t mean what you think.

Why do Russians seem to believe the Kremlin that Ukraine needs to be “denazified”? It may turn on the post-Soviet understanding of what a “Nazi” is.

www.csmonitor.com

 

[Harry]

Is this website ok then

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.

theconversation.com

A similar report on the ABC

How Putin cultivated homegrown neo-Nazis for his own ends

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim that he is waging war to "de-Nazify" Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists, writes Robert Horvath.

www.abc.net.au

What about this one then?

CIDOB - “Russia for Russians!” Ultranationalism and xenophobia in Russia: from marginality to state promoted philosophy

The course of Russian development over the past decade has explicitly shown that both internal milieu and foreign policy domain have expressed staggering s...

www.cidob.org

Or this one

Latest breaking news and videos of European and World | Eupoliticalreport

Find all national and international information about Europe and Worlds. News about economy, politics, diplomacy and others. Stay with us.

www.eupoliticalreport.eu

Which websites are you allowing people to use then? Only the ones that showcase Russian propaganda and none the other way?

I would recommend people read, listen and analyse all sides of the story.

 

[AngryAnt]

I would recommend people read, listen and analyse all sides of the story.

Agree, and be aware of the intentions of the site that is providing the information.

 

[Harry]

Agree, and be aware of the intentions of the site that is providing the information.

About *smile* time we agreed on something.

 

[AngryAnt]

About *smile* time we agreed on something.

I get you brother. I used to be attracted to wacky conspiracy theories - I grew out of those in my 20s, but many don't. The 9/11 truther movement was the one that made me realise how *smile* dumb most of them are. In recent times we had the whole Qanon nonsense - when is the Storm going to happen by the way? Then the whole HCQ/Ivermectin/vaccines are bad nonsense which I see you buy into as well.

There is a personality type that goes for this stuff - interested but with no real research skills or critical thinking skills. You have some. I saw the conspiracy theory types described as those who feel there is something underneath, something hidden, something invisible that can only be exposed by bizarre codes, analysis of photos, dates, numerology and so on.

We should always listen to alternative voices. It's great to be sceptical, but also be critical and be a realist. There are conspiracies in plain sight - yes, companies and governments surveill us through our phones. Usually its high level data aggregation but yeah, if they are interested in you damn straight they can hack in and see where you are, who you talk to, etc. They don't need nanotechnology in vaccines or QR codes to do it. The Iraq war - a conspiracy in plain sight - prompted by "revenge" for 911 but mostly the need for a war, and a chance to annex oil and territory in the ME, and we are all still paying for it. Not as much as the Iraqis continue to pay, but yeah.

Does the US care about Russia and NATO? Yep, damn straight they do. Does Russia *smile* around in Syria, troll farms, wish to expand the "Russian empire" by whatever means necessary? Hell yes.

Is Ukraine, led by a Jewish Russian speaking Ukrainian overrun by Nazis? No. Is Russia committing war crimes in the Ukraine? Yep. Is the invasion of the Ukraine the fault of the US or Putin? What do you reckon?

As an aside, check out the doco Navalny, out this year. Follows the dissident Navalny through the FSBs attempted poisoning and the exposure of the plot against him through some clever detective work, phone hacks and prank calls. Great stuff

 

[Harry]

Thanks Ant. You forgot to mention the Trump Russiagate conspiracy. Oh and the Hunter Biden Laptop conspiracy.