Richmond vs St Kilda - Game Day Thread

[Leysy Days]

So if I offered you a straight swap of lists right now you'd still take ours?

I like you're loyalty but if we tested that with a knowledgeable and independent audience I'd be willing to back that the majority would take the Hawks list over ours

Ours 100%.

Hawthorn's list management has been very poor since there last flag. They are still playing catch-up and have a dearth of talent in their mid 20's in comparison to ours.

Don't care about what some audience might think. Will back my judgement.

 

[Brodders17]

On the other hand Clarkson tipped out Lewis, Mitchell, Hodge and Birchall at exactly the right time which meant they could give games to their kids and work out who would make it and who wouldn't.

Heavily criticized at the time but in hindsight it was exactly the right thing to do.

They were all performing at a higher level than the likes to Cotchin, Riewoldt and Shedda are now when they left also.

they tipped them out then went with picks 74 and 76 in the ND, the following year they had picks 45, 67 and 71, the next year they had picks 52 and 63. 2019 they finally had a 1st rd pick, and took picks 13, 29 and 57 to the ND. 2020 they finally invested in youth and took a whopping 4 picks in the ND, 6, 29, 35 and 46.

not sure what kids they are giving games to.

 

[King Kong]

they tipped them out then went with picks 74 and 76 in the ND, the following year they had picks 45, 67 and 71, the next year they had picks 52 and 63. 2019 they finally had a 1st rd pick, and took picks 13, 29 and 57 to the ND. 2020 they finally invested in youth and took a whopping 4 picks in the ND, 6, 29, 35 and 46.

not sure what kids they are giving games to.

Getting high draft picks is only half the battle. The other half is picking the right players with the picks you have. The Hawks have done a far better job of that than we have under Clarke.

Balta & Bolton were both picked in the 20s whilst Baker was a rookie.

Whilst our recent 1st rounders in Lennon, Corey Ellis, RCD & Higgins are effectively busts. CCJ also went at 20 in the Higgins draft whilst the likes of Taylor, Oscar Allen, Ryan and Kelly went shortly after. This was Clarkes first draft in charge and it has to be marked as a fail given the quality of players taken after those 2 even including Balta. The last thing we needed in 2017 was another small forward!

 

[bob]

In the context of what this man has done for this club, the second last paragraph is the only one that means anything..in this meaningless disrespectful post.
Our midfield is so thin he is still trying to carry it. Ideally he would be spending time forward or back like Pendles. Trying his heart out and you write speculation about his motives - just playing for the cash (if so, so?) - and his future after footy. This stuff would be better off in some gossip mag. 2 mercs, wowee..!

Look, I actually went to his speaking gig with 2 others. So, I respect him deeply enough, you can question my post, but you wouldnt have a clue about my respect for Cotch.

My other post on another thread said we dont need to retire him/call out for him to retire, he knows himself.

And of course he's carrying the midfield. He wasn't to know Dion would be injured or Dusty needed a longer break.
But if you dont think he's playing for the cash, like all of us are working for the cash, you are the one kidding yourself.

 

[bob]

I don't think Cotch is only playing for money, Cotch is playing because he can still play ( when fit ) and the coach and the team, desperately want him to play.

Talking about our players as mercenaries is disrespectful IMHO, they could all have left years ago, and made a crap load more money at other clubs.

Being 3 time premiership players means the Melbourne corporate and football world is their oyster, they can pretty much do whatever they want and get paid very well without risking their bodies every week.

We need manage this respectfully, and I have every expectation that we will, as we should.

These players are Hall of famers, all time greats.

I do agree with you Niko. Its a good point you make - Cotch could have prob got more money going elsewhere.

 

[MD Jazz]

WTF!! Chimp playing on to just take the cash? He is still going harder at the ball and man than anyone in the AFL.

Crazy and insulting talk.

Yeh, disrespectful to say he is playing for money alone. That's not his style.

But he's not going harder at the ball cause he is shot Leysy. He is not moving well at all. He looks slow in the last qtr's.

He's been beaten physically in our losses - first by Cripps and now by the Siaints mids. That would not have happened in his prime, one of the fiercest one on one players to have played the game. But he isn't that player anymore.

I like your idea of him playing off a HBF. Let him straight line the ball a bit. And when he has time his dispoisal is neat.

 

[mrposhman]

Yeh, disrespectful to say he is playing for money alone. That's not his style.

But he's not going harder at the ball cause he is shot Leysy. He is not moving well at all. He looks slow in the last qtr's.

He's been beaten physically in our losses - first by Cripps and now by the Siaints mids. That would not have happened in his prime, one of the fiercest one on one players to have played the game. But he isn't that player anymore.

I like your idea of him playing off a HBF. Let him straight line the ball a bit. And when he has time his dispoisal is neat.

We need to change our thinking with Cotch. I have no problem with him in the middle, but IMO the days of him playing 80%+ TOG are gone. We need him to be in the 70-75% range and use him as an impact player, this would give him around another 5 mins or so on the pine to recover. The problem with this is Soldo is taking up way too much time on the pine for what we need to provide some of the other players.

 

[King Kong]

In the context of what this man has done for this club, the second last paragraph is the only one that means anything..in this meaningless disrespectful post.
Our midfield is so thin he is still trying to carry it. Ideally he would be spending time forward or back like Pendles. Trying his heart out and you write speculation about his motives - just playing for the cash (if so, so?) - and his future after footy. This stuff would be better off in some gossip mag. 2 mercs, wowee..!

To be fair Cotch would have known he was done last year. Its why he handed the captaincy on. Whether he was encouraged to go on reluctantly or was confident in himself we don't know. However, what is clear is that he is a shadow of his former self now and 10 years of being forced to play inside mid has taken its toll. His body is failing him and in hindsight I bet he is questioning if he made the right decision or not to play on. Riewoldt is much more likely to be playing for the cash though than Cotch. I think he has even mentioned he has earnt the right to good coin and going to make the most of it. Jack has a history of being selfish and not well liked in his early days and whilst he has worked hard on his image a leopard don't change its spots

 

[Willo]

To be fair Cotch would have known he was done last year. Its why he handed the captaincy on. Whether he was encouraged to go on reluctantly or was confident in himself we don't know. However, what is clear is that he is a shadow of his former self now and 10 years of being forced to play inside mid has taken its toll. His body is failing him and in hindsight I bet he is questioning if he made the right decision or not to play on. Riewoldt is much more likely to be playing for the cash though than Cotch. I think he has even mentioned he has earnt the right to good coin and going to make the most of it. Jack has a history of being selfish and not well liked in his early days and whilst he has worked hard on his image a leopard don't change its spots

I think JR and Cotch restructured their existing contracts to allow us to fit Tom Lynch in.
Reduced $’s but an extra year or so on their contracts to reimburse them.
if so, it’s fair enough to fulfill their contracts. Not selfish at all in my opinion.
I think JR still has a bit to offer. Cotch would welcome back Prestia and Lambo with open arms to help spread the load. He’s doing some heavy lifting atm, when he should be easing off a bit. Shedda hitting some form and Dusty back would help

 

[mrposhman]

I think JR and Cotch restructured their existing contracts to allow us to fit Tom Lynch in.
Reduced $’s but an extra year or so on their contracts to reimburse them.
if so, it’s fair enough to fulfill their contracts. Not selfish at all in my opinion.
I think JR still has a bit to offer. Cotch would welcome back Prestia and Lambo with open arms to help spread the load. He’s doing some heavy lifting atm, when he should be easing off a bit. Shedda hitting some form and Dusty back would help

Agree on Cotch, he's not supposed to be the main man anymore, but he's having to be. The sooner we can get Cotch to 70% TOG the better. We can then use him as an impact player and I think he needs those extra minutes on the pine in order to be able to consistently impact throughout the 4 quarters.

 

[achillesjones]

To be fair Cotch would have known he was done last year. Its why he handed the captaincy on. Whether he was encouraged to go on reluctantly or was confident in himself we don't know. However, what is clear is that he is a shadow of his former self now and 10 years of being forced to play inside mid has taken its toll. His body is failing him and in hindsight I bet he is questioning if he made the right decision or not to play on. Riewoldt is much more likely to be playing for the cash though than Cotch. I think he has even mentioned he has earnt the right to good coin and going to make the most of it. Jack has a history of being selfish and not well liked in his early days and whilst he has worked hard on his image a leopard don't change its spots

Maybe a leopard doesn't change it's spots, but Jack has matured into a selfless developer of other players. He was the one who took on the three amigos in 2017 and made them stars. I don't buy the theory that Jack is in the gone category either. He is one of the smartest forwards in the game and loves the Tigers. Play him at full forward and he will still give you at least 50 goals.
Tommy is the one who needs to lift and he will do this away from the square at CHF.

 

[UKTiger]

I think JR and Cotch restructured their existing contracts to allow us to fit Tom Lynch in.
Reduced $’s but an extra year or so on their contracts to reimburse them.
if so, it’s fair enough to fulfill their contracts. Not selfish at all in my opinion.
I think JR still has a bit to offer. Cotch would welcome back Prestia and Lambo with open arms to help spread the load. He’s doing some heavy lifting atm, when he should be easing off a bit. Shedda hitting some form and Dusty back would help

Some haven't cottoned on that Cotchin is our only really experienced midfielder on the park yesterday (Sheds seems to be missing at half forward) and he couldn't do everything. Age catches up to us all but Cotchin still plays as hard as his body will allow. Hopefully some of our kids will learn a bit from him in the coming weeks

 

[seven]

What’s the bet the saints get done by 8 goals this week

 

[Smoking Aces]

What’s the bet the saints get done by 8 goals this week

You just know they will.

 

[TigerForce]

Applause to Max King for marking a ball with legs and dumpires pay it. Utter brilliance.

OTC discuss that Gresham play......all good. FMD.

 

[tigerlove]

So someone mentioned elsewhere that Tigers have won 3 of the last 14 games (1 draw). That's bottom 2 material. It's rebuild time. Time for the old oldies to move over.

 

[tigerlove]

Ours 100%.

Hawthorn's list management has been very poor since there last flag. They are still playing catch-up and have a dearth of talent in their mid 20's in comparison to ours.

Don't care about what some audience might think. Will back my judgement.

But Hawks do have something like 20 x 20 to 23 year olds. 7 of the top 10 ball winners in Rd 3 were under 23yo. They haven't played much yet this year but did also win 3 of their last 4 last year (and drew with Tigers). They'll move well ahead of the Tigers this year. They're already a game & 54% ahead of us.

 

[artball]

our older stars have reached, and are reaching transition points in their lives away from playing football
their value around the club goes beyond what they bring on the field and moves toward what they bring in knowledge and experience
i suppose it's a bit of a short term loss / long term gain scenario
it's not like the club or the players don't know this, and its a balance we're seeing is hard to find

 

[pete and tys]

So someone mentioned elsewhere that Tigers have won 3 of the last 14 games (1 draw). That's bottom 2 material. It's rebuild time. Time for the old oldies to move over.

This.
We have been cooked since the GF 2020. Dusty got us over the line that day.
Its long over.
Time for a new start.

 

[King Kong]

Applause to Max King for marking a ball with legs and dumpires pay it. Utter brilliance.

OTC discuss that Gresham play......all good. FMD.

That’s another footy show i won’t be watching again now.