Players under 21.

[Tiger_4_Life]

I was sickened that we allowed Beau Dowler to look like a decent player, he's Hawthorn's JON and he kicked 4 goals FFS.....we are rubbish and our backline leaks goals like a siv.

 

[IanG]

I was sickened that we allowed Beau Dowler to look like a decent player, he's Hawthorn's JON and he kicked 4 goals FFS.....we are rubbish and our backline leaks goals like a siv.

Yeah well geniusJade had the far shorter Polo on him for large parts of the game.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I was sickened that we allowed Beau Dowler to look like a decent player, he's Hawthorn's JON and he kicked 4 goals FFS.....we are rubbish and our backline leaks goals like a siv.

u know what the backline worries me more than the fwd line, vickery, post, riewoldt and perhaps butcher will form a formidable fwd line for the next decade, add morton who plays tall and nahas and perhaps connors if he gets off his arse and its come together in 3 drafts, 06', 07, 08' and 09" if we pic butcher...

On the other hand for the backline we need a FB, we should develope rance as a CHB, need another 2 hard running Half backs, similar to hodge and guerra and a hard nosed back pocket....

Thursty should be playing 3rd tall, mcguane traded to GC in 2010 and moore who knows, had a great year in 08' but gone backwards this year...

 

[Baloo]

so have the astute experts written off Rance as a dud yet ?

 

[craig]

Patience with Alex he needs to be plonked at CHB and left there he aint gonna be a damaging HBF so no point playing him there.

Plenty of other younger players id sack tho - White, Polo, Jon, Hughes, for starters

 

[Phar Ace]

Patience with Alex he needs to be plonked at CHB and left there he aint gonna be a damaging HBF so no point playing him there.

Yep, has the poise and pace to be elite in that position.

 

[Smoking Aces]

have always said it your first pick should always go on the best player available. as far as juniors go im out of touch what i have seen morabito i like obviously scully. clearly if we are to build for 5 yrs down the track kpps should be priorities.but i still believe you make your first pick count on the best available. dont mess with the pick that should get you a 10 yr marqee player at least.
if morabito at 3 is ranked the best player there we take him if butcher is the best ranked player left at 3 we take him. if they are thast close they cant be split takle the tall your more likely to pick up a decent mid than a decent tall with a second rounder.

Thanks Claw.
From what you have seen of Morabito, can you tell us a bit about him -strengths, weaknesses etc ??

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Deleted

Brief replies that add nothing to the discussion but to denigrate or bag a situation/event/player/official/poster, or hijack a discussion will be deleted and the poster banned for repeat offences.

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29451.msg529548

 

[dimmauchump]

The simple fact that the Hawks could still field 10 players Under 21 considering they just won a premiership last year to our 4 is a sign of how bad our list really is. We have 2-3 years of big culling before we can look at any improvement. Forget about the ones that weren't playing but look at the ones that were. With the injuries and retirements we have had this year we should have been fielding the youngest team in the comp instead we had players like Mchomo, Simmonds, Tuck, Brown running around on Saturday. As for trading away picks for players like Thomson well that has worked a treat. :

 

[Brodders17]

The simple fact that the Hawks could still field 10 players Under 21 considering they just won a premiership last year to our 4 is a sign of how bad our list really is. We have 2-3 years of big culling before we can look at any improvement. Forget about the ones that weren't playing but look at the ones that were. With the injuries and retirements we have had this year we should have been fielding the youngest team in the comp instead we had players like Mchomo, Simmonds, Tuck, Brown running around on Saturday. As for trading away picks for players like Thomson well that has worked a treat. :

the hawks had 4 players under 21. we had 3. last week we had 5. does that make our list better?

 

[Rosy]

the hawks had 4 players under 21. we had 3. last week we had 5. ....

Maybe the commentators said they had 10 players 21 and under and we had 4? The fact I found interesting is the Hawks flogged us with a very young and inexperienced team, as indicated by L2's stats.

I'll stick up for our players till the cows come home but I am concerned about the shape of our overall list just the same.

 

[lukeanddad]

Recently we were reporting an average age of our team of 50-odd games, the least experienced in the comp. I suspect the balance may have changed recently, with Tuck, Simmonds and Polak coming back. I'd say at least two of these will go next year and the likes of Post, Vickery, Cotch, Collins (& Connors?) come back after 3 months in the gym and a solid pre-season.

As someone said elsewhere (when reflecting on Carlton's and Hawthorn's dramatic recent improvement), when we get the model right, improvement will be rapid.

 

[GoodOne]

The problem is that they aren't that good (except for Cotch).

Rosy's point is just how accomplished Hawk's young players were, and how much better their list is....

Think it makes a difference that you have a number of experienced premiership players around those youngsters. Most of our experience, especially in the key position areas are gone. Iit would have been interesting to see how those 10 young Hwaks would have fared in the Tiger lineup alongside our experienced players. Hard to argue that Hawks have a better list than the Tigers.

 

[TOT70]

From what I saw of the game coverage, Walls, Quartermain and co were in full-on bag Richmond mode.

Every Hawk turnover was an understandable error from a young player and every Richmond one was an unacceptable skill error.

 

[GoodOne]

have always said it your first pick should always go on the best player available. as far as juniors go im out of touch what i have seen morabito i like obviously scully. clearly if we are to build for 5 yrs down the track kpps should be priorities.but i still believe you make your first pick count on the best available. dont mess with the pick that should get you a 10 yr marqee player at least.
if morabito at 3 is ranked the best player there we take him if butcher is the best ranked player left at 3 we take him. if they are thast close they cant be split takle the tall your more likely to pick up a decent mid than a decent tall with a second rounder.

Always wondered what constitutes the best available. In my mind the best available should take into account needs as it is not an exact science. I think choosing the best available is skewed anyway by the need factor, as you are more likely to put weight on certain aspects of a player that you desperately need in front of one that maybe you dont need as much.

 

[Rosy]

Hard to argue that Hawks have a better list than the Tigers.

Gee I reckon it's an easy argument. I think their list is far better than ours. I hope I'm proven wrong but their results have to mean something.

 

[TOT70]

It was just a very cleverly presented stat. Hawthorn did not play “Ten players under 21, they played “Ten players who were 21 or under.”

By contrast, Richmond had nine players who were “22 or under.”

Richmond had 14 players who were “23 or under.” So did Hawthorn.

You can say anything you want with stats, just pick the right one.

 

[Rosy]

......they played “Ten players who were 21 or under

By contrast, Richmond had nine players who were “22 or under.”

Richmond had 14 players who were “23 or under.” So did Hawthorn.

For comparison how many did the Hawks have in both of those last categories and how many did we have 21 and under?

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

The simple fact that the Hawks could still field 10 players Under 21 considering they just won a premiership last year to our 4 is a sign of how bad our list really is. We have 2-3 years of big culling before we can look at any improvement. Forget about the ones that weren't playing but look at the ones that were. With the injuries and retirements we have had this year we should have been fielding the youngest team in the comp instead we had players like Mchomo, Simmonds, Tuck, Brown running around on Saturday. As for trading away picks for players like Thomson well that has worked a treat. :

I thought Thommo, while not brillant nor great had a fair game for his first hit out. Im not saying hes worth the pick but the jury's still out, he's had his injury and crossed from another city to the turmoil of Punt Road. Id give him one more year especially under a new coach, he was a fantastic junior, is still young and may be a great replacment for Tuck.

 

[Tygrys]

Recently we were reporting an average age of our team of 50-odd games, the least experienced in the comp. I suspect the balance may have changed recently, with Tuck, Simmonds and Polak coming back. I'd say at least two of these will go next year and the likes of Post, Vickery, Cotch, Collins (& Connors?) come back after 3 months in the gym and a solid pre-season.

As someone said elsewhere (when reflecting on Carlton's and Hawthorn's dramatic recent improvement), when we get the model right, improvement will be rapid.

UInfortunately one of the key ingredients of their model was bottoming out and gaining priority picks in an uncompromised draft. It doesn't mean improvement on our part is impossible simply that the road we are travelling on is probably a far harder and longer one.