Palestine and Israel | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Palestine and Israel

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That may be your view, but not mine.
i should have said “tongue in cheek”. But no doubt many on either side and their supporters see it that way
The Israeli government and certainly the mad RWNJs who are a big part of it, would say that all Palestinians are terrorists, along with calling them animals and sub-human. But there are a fair number of Israelis who can see that kicking the can down the road is not a viable strategy, ethnic cleansing is not what Israel was supposed to stand for and they want to see a fair settlement with Palestinians. Pity they have little power.
And plenty of Arabs and muslims would like to see Israel and all Jews exterminated. As would there supporters
Let's hope some sort of cease fire happens very soon, followed by a serious attempt to resolve the conflict.

DS
Cease fire is achievable.
The conflict, maybe.

A permanent solution, I won’t hold my breath. A wise man once said, “the only thing that is gusto have a solution is a crossword“.

Sometimes there isn’t a solution. It’s like saying someone needs to find a solution to stop the waves at a beach. Good luck with that.
But that’s only my opinion which doesn’t count for much.
 
That may be your view, but not mine. The Israeli government and certainly the mad RWNJs who are a big part of it, would say that all Palestinians are terrorists, along with calling them animals and sub-human. But there are a fair number of Israelis who can see that kicking the can down the road is not a viable strategy, ethnic cleansing is not what Israel was supposed to stand for and they want to see a fair settlement with Palestinians. Pity they have little power.

Let's hope some sort of cease fire happens very soon, followed by a serious attempt to resolve the conflict.

DS
There is an interview on CNN done a few months ago with Danielle Weiss, who is a vocal advocate for the settlers and the right for them to take land in the west Bank. In the interview she was asked what was the future for the Palestinians in Gaza as she is now working on sending Israeli settlers into Gaza post the conflict.
Her view is chilling and is in the end based on the view that some have that nothing happened before October 7. She essentially said that because of then Hamas attack on October 7 those 2 million + people have no rights. When confronted with that sounding like ethnic cleansing she reiterated they have no rights, that every Gazan Palestinian was complicit.
She has a big following and it is scary if that is a widely held view in Israel. I don't believe that it is or at least I sincerely hope it isn't.
 
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There is an interview on CNN done a few months ago with Danielle Weiss, who is a vocal advocate for the settlers and the right for them to take land in the west Bank. In the interview she was asked what was the future for the Palestinians in Gaza as she is now working on sending Israeli settlers into Gaza post the conflict.
Her view is chilling and is in the end based on the view that some have that nothing happened before October 7. She essentially said that because of then Hamas attack on October 7 those 2 million + people have no rights. When confronted with that sounding like ethnic cleansing she reiterated they have no rights, that every Gazan Palestinian was complicit.
She has a big following and it is scary if that is a widely held view in Israel. I don't believe that it is or at least I sincerely hope it isn't.
I reckon there would be a lot of Israelis who don't hold the same view as that nutter, BUT, I also reckon there are more that do.

Fact about good ol' Dani is that she was raised in California, so quite the expert on "all things Israeli".
 
There is an interview on CNN done a few months ago with Danielle Weiss, who is a vocal advocate for the settlers and the right for them to take land in the west Bank.
I think that a lot of Israelis are now of the view that for Israels self preservation, they need the WB. Where do the Palestinians do next?
I‘m not sure what the future holds for them.
What a *smile* mess this is.
In the interview she was asked what was the future for the Palestinians in Gaza as she is now working on sending Israeli settlers into Gaza post the conflict.
Her view is chilling and is in the end based on the view that some have that nothing happened before October 7.
People keep referring to the happenings that took place prior to October 7.
But I’ve been trying to tell people that October 7 was the catalyst for many Israelis.
Where a lot had taken what had happened previously in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank as “what usually happens” October 7 changed a lot of views for not just the Israeli Jews but the a lot of the Israeli Arabs as well.A lot more people have become more extremist in their views on the Palestinians. Whereas before it was about keeping the Palestinians insitu, now they won’t trust any of them, especially being in close proximity to Israel’s towns.
Thats why I’ve said I can’t see a 2 state solution working. Too many Israelis have got their backs up and believe they can never trust the Palestinians. Collectively. Ever again.

As I’m sure that a lot of Palestinians will be still in shock and grieving at losing and the injuries to family members and the destruction taken place.

She essentially said that because of then Hamas attack on October 7 those 2 million + people have no rights. When confronted with that sounding like ethnic cleansing she reiterated they have no rights, that every Gazan Palestinian was complicit.
She has a big following and it is scary if that is a widely held view in Israel. I don't believe that it is or at least I sincerely hope it isn't.
I wouldn't have a clue how widely held her views are. But common sense would tell you that a lot of Israelis will hold little to no trust that Palestinians will ever want peace.
October 7 proved that fact to them. That Hamas, and by extension Palestinians will only want death and destruction on Israel and the Israeli Jews.
In effect Hamas single-handedly sunk the 2 state solution. Not that Hamas ever wanted anything different than the total destruction of Israel and the Israeli Jews. (I’m not sure about Israeli Arabs)

A ceasefire and returning the hostages is imperative. At least for both sides to draw a breath. The Israelis will be hellbent on going into Rafah otherwise.
Why they can’t cleanup the northern areas and completely get rid of Hamas in the north, then allow the civilians to return in groups that are manageable, ensuring they have no weapons and have food, water, living conditions and health and hygiene areas set up. At least women, children and those that are unarmed can get through before hostilities break out again.



On another note.
I’d like to know what the Palestinians view of the Israeli Arabs who remained in Israel is. Whether they don’t care about them, whether they count them as their own, whether they’re jealous of them and their standard of living. Whether they wished they’d disobeyed or ignored the order to evacuate by the leadership when the Arab countries invaded Israel.

I’ve yet to see any comment of Palestinians on the Israeli Arabs. Has anyone?
Ive seen Israeli Arabs condemn Hamas October 7 attacks.
 
The Palestinians didn't trust the Israelis well before October 7, getting thrown en masse out of your country will do that. I don't reckon most Palestinians thought Israel were ever serious about the 2 state solution, maybe just after the Oslo Accords, but not long after they would be pretty convinced it wasn't going to happen. The Infitadas show how much faith Palestinians had in Israel coming to the party and seriously negotiating for a 2 state solution, essentially none. Israeli politics has just gone further to the right since so less chance now for a negotiated settlement, which is why we need an internationally imposed settlement.

DS
 
I think that a lot of Israelis are now of the view that for Israels self preservation, they need the WB. Where do the Palestinians do next?
I‘m not sure what the future holds for them.
What a *smile* mess this is.

People keep referring to the happenings that took place prior to October 7.
But I’ve been trying to tell people that October 7 was the catalyst for many Israelis.
Where a lot had taken what had happened previously in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank as “what usually happens” October 7 changed a lot of views for not just the Israeli Jews but the a lot of the Israeli Arabs as well.A lot more people have become more extremist in their views on the Palestinians. Whereas before it was about keeping the Palestinians insitu, now they won’t trust any of them, especially being in close proximity to Israel’s towns.
Thats why I’ve said I can’t see a 2 state solution working. Too many Israelis have got their backs up and believe they can never trust the Palestinians. Collectively. Ever again.

As I’m sure that a lot of Palestinians will be still in shock and grieving at losing and the injuries to family members and the destruction taken place.


I wouldn't have a clue how widely held her views are. But common sense would tell you that a lot of Israelis will hold little to no trust that Palestinians will ever want peace.
October 7 proved that fact to them. That Hamas, and by extension Palestinians will only want death and destruction on Israel and the Israeli Jews.
In effect Hamas single-handedly sunk the 2 state solution. Not that Hamas ever wanted anything different than the total destruction of Israel and the Israeli Jews. (I’m not sure about Israeli Arabs)

A ceasefire and returning the hostages is imperative. At least for both sides to draw a breath. The Israelis will be hellbent on going into Rafah otherwise.
Why they can’t cleanup the northern areas and completely get rid of Hamas in the north, then allow the civilians to return in groups that are manageable, ensuring they have no weapons and have food, water, living conditions and health and hygiene areas set up. At least women, children and those that are unarmed can get through before hostilities break out again.



On another note.
I’d like to know what the Palestinians view of the Israeli Arabs who remained in Israel is. Whether they don’t care about them, whether they count them as their own, whether they’re jealous of them and their standard of living. Whether they wished they’d disobeyed or ignored the order to evacuate by the leadership when the Arab countries invaded Israel.

I’ve yet to see any comment of Palestinians on the Israeli Arabs. Has anyone?
Ive seen Israeli Arabs condemn Hamas October 7 attacks.
Danielle Weiss’ view on the West Bank is no different now to what it was last year and the year before etc.

Anyway this is not about whether Israelis have trust in Palestinians or not. It is way more incidious than that. It is that they are nothing, They have no rights, they don’t have to be treated as human.

Before any return can be arranged (on the assumption of a peace deal) somehow that cost and resources for reconstruction have to be arranged. Remember 60% of all buildings are either destroyed or damaged
 
Danielle Weiss’ view on the West Bank is no different now to what it was last year and the year before etc.
Yes ok, but I was comments on whether “everyday” Israelis have changed their opinions on Palestinians. You said she had a big following, Will it bigger now? That’s what I was referring to.
Anyway this is not about whether Israelis have trust in Palestinians or not. It is way more incidious than that. It is that they are nothing, They have no rights, they don’t have to be treated as human.
Call it trust, respect or what they’re entitled to. That opinion no doubt has changed for a lot of people
Before any return can be arranged (on the assumption of a peace deal) somehow that cost and resources for reconstruction have to be arranged. Remember 60% of all buildings are either destroyed or damaged
The return was for the northern areas of Gaza, where and when Hamas are eradicated from that area.
Organised return where people can be monitored or scanned for weapons! Then forwarded to safe areas. No doubt there will be a need for temporary accomodation and facilities but no doubt UNRWA aid and money funnelled previously to Hamas can be used. Other oil rich Muslim countries can always donate funds.
Once all civilians are evacuated! Hamas can surrender or Israel go in. Less death and injury to those innocent civilians
 
The Palestinians didn't trust the Israelis well before October 7, getting thrown en masse out of your country will do that
So many left when ordered to do so by those Arab countries before they invaded Israel. Some stayed in Israel
Not too many left nowadays, 76 years ago, so even the youngest are getting on. A few more years and they won’t be able to use that as a reason. There will be none left. Apart from the indoctrinated generations that followed
. I don't reckon most Palestinians thought Israel were ever serious about the 2 state solution, maybe just after the Oslo Accords, but not long after they would be pretty convinced it wasn't going to happen. The Infitadas show how much faith Palestinians had in Israel coming to the party and seriously negotiating for a 2 state solution, essentially none.

And on it goes. After Intifada 1 there was less Will then after Intifada 2 even less. The constant killings, suicide bombers on innocent civilians put paid to that.
Nothing has changed. People see what they like and make excuses and reasons.
Israeli politics has just gone further to the right since so less chance now for a negotiated settlement, which is why we need an internationally imposed settlement.
Of course. Exactly what Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah have planned for. And their house trained PR machine at work.

Once again, no country or group of countries have the legal right, the will or the means to impose a settlement. T8mes have changed since 1947 when Britain did it during the Partition. How did that work out again?

And if if it was possible, it still would be unsuccessful if there wasn’t the goodwill of both parties.
If that goodwill didn’t exist, one side would always feel hard done by. As has happened for the past 76 years. That’s what happened back then. A solution that was imposed on two parties.
And guess what happens then…
 
Yes ok, but I was comments on whether “everyday” Israelis have changed their opinions on Palestinians. You said she had a big following, Will it bigger now? That’s what I was referring to.

Call it trust, respect or what they’re entitled to. That opinion no doubt has changed for a lot of people

The return was for the northern areas of Gaza, where and when Hamas are eradicated from that area.
Organised return where people can be monitored or scanned for weapons! Then forwarded to safe areas. No doubt there will be a need for temporary accomodation and facilities but no doubt UNRWA aid and money funnelled previously to Hamas can be used. Other oil rich Muslim countries can always donate funds.
Once all civilians are evacuated! Hamas can surrender or Israel go in. Less death and injury to those innocent civilians
I’m talking about Gaza post a peace deal, not in the next few months but ongoing.
The whole area has to be reconstructed.
Who is going to pay? The Palestinians can’t but the money has to come from somewhere. 2.5 million people can’t just go back to rubble, a destroyed economy and no future.
As I said I am talking about on the assumption of a peace deal. What does or doesn’t happen with the entity Hamas will be part of that deal I assume.
 
Yes, Willo, only the Israelis are threatened, Hamas is an existential threat to poor little Israel and the Palestinians all left of their own free will :rolleyes:

You keep saying you see no solution, so it is acceptable for the killing to just continue?

You know, when you consign people to ghettos they tend to react. The infitadas were a reaction to oppression. I really don't know what the Israelis expected, you oppress people, they respond.

A resolution is needed, and if the US stopped arming and protecting Israel at the UN then we would have a decent chance at some sort of resolution.

DS
 
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A resolution is needed, and if the US stopped arming and protecting Israel at the UN then we would have a decent chance at some sort of resolution.

DS
So whadda ya reckon Dave. If Israel had no more kabooms left, then Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis n a few of the other neighbours would just be like. Maaaate come in n have a beer, got the barbie cranked up for lunch n we'll have a kebab n a chat about who get what part of our sandy little desert to live in.
 
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So whadda ya reckon Dave. If Israel had no more kabooms left, then Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis n a few of the other neighbours would just be like. Maaaate come in n have a beer, got the barbie cranked up for lunch n we'll have a kebab n a chat about who get what part of our sandy little desert to live in.

Quality plan!

I'm nominating you as UN Peace Envoy to the Middle East TM.

Done and done! :)
 
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Just been reading my Hun while having a lazy brekky this morn. Front page n article further in regarding some of the protesting going on at University of Melbourne had me wondering why nearly all the Hamas supporters were looking like crims with face masks on. Surely they weren't all pretending there were covid germs sneaking around trying to make them sick.
 
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Yes, Willo, only the Israelis are threatened,
Where did I say that?
Hamas is an existential threat to poor little Israel
I never claimed only Hamas is an existential threat but I’m sure if any of the 1200 people they slaughtered was a family member or members of yours, you wouldn’t be so blasé
and the Palestinians all left of their own free will :rolleyes:
A lot did. Surely as such a student of history, you'd be aware of that fact. Just as some Palestinian/Arabs stayed of their own free will. Otherwise to believe your scenario the Israelis were inept and overlooked the 20% who stayed ie over 150,000.
Were those 150,000 hiding in the bushes, behind rocks? Nobody spotted them? Or the myth of forced deportation is just that. They left of their own accord.

But obviously it was Israel’s fault that other Arab countries invaded in 1948. And the leaders of those countries advised Palestinians to leave. Maybe research that.
Most were tenant farmers, they didn’t own the land they farmed. Even though then and now it’s classed as Palestinian land.
Legitimate owners have the right to their land. Land purchased, other land granted to them, the same as land granted to Palestinians under The Partition. Who owned that land granted to Palestinians prior to that?

Maybe you need to do more research.
You keep saying you see no solution, so it is acceptable for the killing to just continue?
Silly question and answer of yours. One doesn’t justify the other.
I’ve stated I can’t see any solution for the foreseeable future is my opinion. I haven’t mad any comment at all on your 2nd statement. Only you have.
You know, when you consign people to ghettos they tend to react. The infitadas were a reaction to oppression. I really don't know what the Israelis expected, you oppress people, they respond.
Exactly. You keep committing acts of violence and murder the target of that violence wants you contained. Quid pro quo.
A resolution is needed, and if the US stopped arming and protecting Israel at the UN then we would have a decent chance at some sort of resolution.
And on it goes again. If Iran didn’t arm, fund and train terror armies bent on Israel’s destruction and the many enemies didn’t cite Israel at any and every opportunity in the UN, they might not rely on the US as much.
Haven’t we been through all this before?

It seems you have the rhetoric but no meaningful solution yourself.
Apart from your usual, the US should impose a solution, which won’t happen. (what does that look like anyway?)
or the return to the 1967 territories. Whichwill never happen. Israel won’t pull 300,000 settlers from the WB. They won’t make the same mistake like when they forcibly withdrew less than 5,000 settlers and let Hamas end up ruling Gaza.

While many will say Israeli settlements in the WB are illegal. Under the signed Oslo Accords wasn’t it agreed Area C of the WB was given to Israel to control and administer?
Areas A and B under the control and administration of the PA and Area B under joint security control of the PA and Israel.
Where are the settlements mainly?
 
Just been reading my Hun while having a lazy brekky this morn. Front page n article further in regarding some of the protesting going on at University of Melbourne had me wondering why nearly all the Hamas supporters were looking like crims with face masks on. Surely they weren't all pretending there were covid germs sneaking around trying to make them sick.
They have explained that TM. Some early protestors had their photos taken and were targeted by having their photos plastered on pro Israeli websites. They have genuine concerns for their safety.
 
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So whadda ya reckon Dave. If Israel had no more kabooms left, then Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis n a few of the other neighbours would just be like. Maaaate come in n have a beer, got the barbie cranked up for lunch n we'll have a kebab n a chat about who get what part of our sandy little desert to live in.
No, what they really mean and want, is Israel to pack up all and sundry and migrate somewhere else. So then the Gaza and Weber’s can flood back to the land of their great grandfathers. Most have never stepped foot on any part of “greater Palestine” in their lives. Only the wizened up nonogenerarians.
Then the pro Palestinians are happy.

I dunno if the Palestinians would be happy, their rulers like the PA and Hamas would probably fight another war to see who the ruling party will be. And that would go on for a few more generations. People would then blame Israel for leaving. This would be their fault as well.

Then you’d have the likes of Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Egypt peeking over the fence to see what piece they can slice off.
Again Israels fault, for leaving

They seem to be addicted to violence. To the infidels and their fellow believers.
 
Whatever anyone thinks about the protests at universities around the world there are plenty of them. Views on university protests range from kids not knowing what they are talking about to the history of student protest going back to the Vietnam war and that movement driving change in society’s attitudes.
Anyway I was reading about the ones in Melbourne in the age and I noticed the incredibly helpful comment by our alternative Prime Minister. He says the protests are anti-Semitic.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...alestine-groups-face-off-20240502-p5foan.html

Here we go again with the lazy, uninformed and just plain wrong analysis. Dutton proves over and over again what an intellectual pigmy he is.
 
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In Australia?
Yes

And btw I have a friend’s daughter who has attended these protests and that is what she said to her father as well. The Monash Uni encampment was also attacked by some Israeli supporters.

The genuine protestors on both sides hate this sort of thing, it’s the lunatic fringe again.
 
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