Liverpool said:
As I said, you gotta spend money to make money. Besides, we're one of the richest countries in the world, you're crapping on like we are Eritrea or something. Think big Liverpool, Lose the inferiority complex !
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As I said, you gotta spend money to make money. Besides, we're one of the richest countries in the world, you're crapping on like we are Eritrea or something. Think big Liverpool, Lose the inferiority complex !
tigersnake said:
Rich, in least amount of debt compared to Eritrea? or?
Our debt:
Date (30 June) Gross Debt ($ millions)
2007 58,284
2008 60,462
2009 101,147
2010 147,133
2011 191,291
2012 233,976
Yeah, whats another $37-billion or $43-billion, or whatever figure it eventually grows to.
Liverpool said:
I have to admit I find it funny when people try to simplify the finances of a country by comparing it to a corporation or an individual. What goes on in the financial dealings of a government barely has a correlation with individual finances let alone enough of a relationship to be informative.
Yup many of them are the same ones that did Costello's projections as well, are they only reliable when they have conservative masters?...obviously we'll exclude Godwin Gretch from this conversation.
Honesty from Government would be commendable but isn't likely...whatever the colour of your politics.
The Deputy (Liberal) Premier of Victoria's electorate is right next to the desal and is not part of it's pipeline and is an agricultural area, and is begging for water from it...
Of course it will finish, it will be expensive and it will create money in areas no one has thought of because that is what happens with this type of future tech long term infrastructure.
Liverpool said:
Do you even have even the vaguest idea of what you are talking about, Livers.
Read and learn and then you should probably apologise for the nonsense you keep posting.
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/australians-the-worlds-wealthiest-20111101-1mt2r.html
Liverpool said:
What's interesting about it ? Nothing new, all opinion based, using another country with a vastly different urban landscape to compare against and a massive dollop of self promotion.
I bet, if asked, he could write an article about holographic planes.
KnightersRevenge said:
Of course Livers rants about running the country like your personal finances neglects all the times that people borrow money to finance capital investments anyway. Like a mortgage for example.
Depends if you want to be living in cyber-tent on the side of the information highway or actually owning it and collecting tolls so it pays for itself.
Australia falling further behind in IT ranking
"The 2013 Global Information Technology rankings, produced by the World Economic Forum and released Thursday, put Australia at 18th, out of 144 nations, for business and government readiness to benefit from technology. It is down from 9th in 2004 and from 17th last year."
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/australia-falling-further-behind-in-it-ranking-20130411-2hnjy.html
"The 2013 Global Information Technology rankings, produced by the World Economic Forum and released Thursday, put Australia at 18th, out of 144 nations, for business and government readiness to benefit from technology. It is down from 9th in 2004 and from 17th last year."
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/australia-falling-further-behind-in-it-ranking-20130411-2hnjy.html
antman said:
Agree, using debt to invest in this type of infrastructure is the way to go, as long as the timelines and forecasts are in the ball park.
If the numbers are correct it is a pretty crazy position for the Libs to hold in opposing the NBN. It's a big project with a vision and long-term benefit, soemthing the country has been cryign out for. If Labour can come out between now and the election with some real progress figures that can help substantiate their estimates it could be an election turner.
lamb22 said:
Read and learn? :spin
The statistics I provided you showing our rising debt came directly from the Reserve Bank of Australia, so I don't think its "nonsense" that you should dismiss so arrogantly.
In fact, seeing that you like to defend the ALP on all counts, please explain to me and others how this debt is going to be reduced in the future by a Gillard-led government? or do we just keep putting things on the tab and hope nobody comes to collect?
Soda said:
....and thats the $37-billion caveat isn't it?
Liverpool said:
The NBN is an investment! There will be direct (through charged access) and countless indirect benefits to the economy. Get on your high horse about other spending (eg. Howard-style middle class welfare), but recognise that the NBN will be an economic bonus.
LNP policy is massively disappointing seeing they are the likely next Govt. the equivalent of a Govt saying 100 years ago not to worry about the electric wires over those train lines because everyone uses steam trains. I want a nation building Govt.
My choice would be the original plan but with someone else but the bumbling ALP delivering it ???
My choice would be the original plan but with someone else but the bumbling ALP delivering it ???
The media conventrate on process and personalities because on economic management, foreign policy and implementing a legislative agenda labor's record is untouchable.
Bit disappointed that you drank the media kool aid SinTiger re "bumbling". Foreign policy achievements with the three biggest players in our region, China, India and US and gaining a prominent seat in world matters through G20 and a seat on the UN Security Council show they are anything but bumbling.
Having the best managed economy in the develeped world with solid public finances, low debt, one of only 9A economies ( ie more credit worthy than previous Australian governments) solid growth, low inflation, low interest rates shows its anything but bumbling.
And implementing an enourmous legislative reform agenda including carbon pricing, increasing super to 12%, fixing the Murray Darling Basin Conundrum of 112 years, establishing marine parks, getting rid of workchoices, massively refunding and reforming qualitatively the services in hospitals and education, massive infrastructure spend including building the NBN, establishing a national disability insurance scheme, further introducing Gonski reforms, introducing plain paper packaging, tripling the tax free threshold, massively increasing pensions, introducing Australia's first paid parental leave scheme, introducing gambling reforms, gaining a UN security counsel seat all while taxing people less than Howard and Costello did (as a percentage of GDP) shows it is anything but bumbling.
Under labor Australians have become the wealthiest nation in the world based on median wealth and gone from the 15th largest to the 12th largest economy in the world. (Poor old Livers is so dim he still doesn't know the difference between high private wealth and low public debt and conflates and confuses the two - very typical with economically illiterate tories).
Gillard will go down as one of Australia's great PMs when the daily spin cycle of the ratbag right is forgotten and real achievements accounted. Lets hope she gets further terms as Australia cannot affiord to go backwards after so much has been achieved.
The issue is really are the Australian people worthy of this government. Present signs are not promising.
Bit disappointed that you drank the media kool aid SinTiger re "bumbling". Foreign policy achievements with the three biggest players in our region, China, India and US and gaining a prominent seat in world matters through G20 and a seat on the UN Security Council show they are anything but bumbling.
Having the best managed economy in the develeped world with solid public finances, low debt, one of only 9A economies ( ie more credit worthy than previous Australian governments) solid growth, low inflation, low interest rates shows its anything but bumbling.
And implementing an enourmous legislative reform agenda including carbon pricing, increasing super to 12%, fixing the Murray Darling Basin Conundrum of 112 years, establishing marine parks, getting rid of workchoices, massively refunding and reforming qualitatively the services in hospitals and education, massive infrastructure spend including building the NBN, establishing a national disability insurance scheme, further introducing Gonski reforms, introducing plain paper packaging, tripling the tax free threshold, massively increasing pensions, introducing Australia's first paid parental leave scheme, introducing gambling reforms, gaining a UN security counsel seat all while taxing people less than Howard and Costello did (as a percentage of GDP) shows it is anything but bumbling.
Under labor Australians have become the wealthiest nation in the world based on median wealth and gone from the 15th largest to the 12th largest economy in the world. (Poor old Livers is so dim he still doesn't know the difference between high private wealth and low public debt and conflates and confuses the two - very typical with economically illiterate tories).
Gillard will go down as one of Australia's great PMs when the daily spin cycle of the ratbag right is forgotten and real achievements accounted. Lets hope she gets further terms as Australia cannot affiord to go backwards after so much has been achieved.
The issue is really are the Australian people worthy of this government. Present signs are not promising.
Azza said:
'"I think it's holding us back from the rest of the world because that conservative view doesn't drive research and development and it doesn't drive technology investment, which is really holding us back from becoming an IT powerhouse,"
Australian business and governments would go up the IT rankings when they became "more confident and more comfortable" with investing more money in technology projects'
Azza said:
Yeah, as a nation generally we still see ourselves as a bunch of larrikan labourers. The Coalition with their fear and/or lack of vision are just reflecting and representing that view. Whether its a majority view or not would be a close run thing.
lamb22 said:
Are the ALP on track to deliver the rollout on budget for $37 billion as you stated? Are the timeframes realistic? And why won't the minister give an update of progress against projections?
Until this happens rightly or wrongly questions will continued to be asked and if no answers the voting public will assume that it is not good news as the ALP would be talking about it as a good news story.
MB78 said:
All people need to know is that
(1) Fraudband will have speeds of 5% of the labor NBN (50mbs as compared to 1000mbps (1gbps));
(2) Fraudband will cost more than the labor NBN in billions of dollars in extra maintenance per year and billions of dollars to pay Telstra fo the copper;
(3) Fraudband will cost consumers more (about 5k) if they want fibre to the home:
(4) Fraudband will return less money to the government (NBN will return $80 billion btw 2020 and 2030); and
(5) Fraudband is already obsolete as it is too slow to run 4k HD..
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/building-todays-tech-tomorrow-20130412-2hqt0.html
A lemon of the hoghest order.
lamb22 said:
That's exactly the attitude of the present Government. The Government needs to pay the voting public some respect.
I have stated all along happy to back in the best IT experts and back the NBN in. What I want is the government to show progress and budget update. And if it is behind (like we can only assume) what measures are being implemented to get this project back on track?
Strange tactic by the Libs. They should embrace the technology and plan because to do otherwise is just setting Australia back to the outdoor dunny days in terms of IT. The can easily cast doubt on the ALPs ability to rollout it out on time and on budget turning it into an election winner for the instead of their current plan which is ridiculously bad.
