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NAB 3
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
toby64 said:
You are!
You suggested I should mark down a coach because he had finals success two years running and missed finals (just) the next.
I rightly compared him to another coach (Tommy the legend) who had finals success and then missed finals and I dont mark Hafey down because of that.
All coaches will miss finals or perform poorly in finals from time to time.
The key to the good and great coaches is grasping opportunities when they present themselves.
Hinklay and Hafey did, Hardwick the blunderer didn't and can't.
Port came on strong second half of the year which seems to counter the argument that Hinkley's game plan was picked apart. Slightly below par year in which they payed top 8 sides more than anyone else but still managed 12 wins.
Ken has a patently inferior list to ours but far superior coach to Handbrake the Blunderer.
lamb22 said:
Hinckley "inherited" Boak, Gray, Hartlett, schulz, Westhoff, Polec, (Brad) Ebert, Lobbe, Jonas, Wingard (draftee Wines played every game from memory)
Not a bad crop to start with.
So what happened to SuperCoach Ken last year? Did he have a better side than the year or two he won finals? Ryder included amongst others.
Edit. Saw your above post. So they had a harder draw against top 8 sides early in the year. Surely after playing finals he'd be used to playing good sides, and expected to. He strengthened his list as well. Maybe the stars aligned for his 2 finals wins. Not doubting Hinckley can coach, but ports list wasn't as diabolical as you claim it to be. Plenty of talent in the group I mentioned.
No doubt Hardwick has disappointed the supporters, but the team has to carry some blame as well.
To say one is top 4 and other is bottom 4 because one won a couple of finals and the other hasn't is only an opinion.
The better question would be is Hinckley a better coach than Hardwick.
lamb22 said:
I'm a little unsure whether you're taking the *smile* or not, but OK.
Comparing Dimmas finals record to Neeldys is a red herring, for a stack of reasons, the most obvious one being Neeld didn't coach any finals.
You can cherry-pick comparisons or stats in order to put up red herrings all day, but nobody really does it, except you, that I can think of anyway. Aaron Keating played in more flags than plugger, that kind of thing.
Boak, Gray, Wingard and Westhoff are Port's A graders. Wines is close. He made Polec and Schulz better. Lobbe just a battler as is Jonas, Hartlett and Ebert can be very damaging players on their day but have significant weaknesses in their games.
On talent they are an 8 -12 side. Plus this year they go in with two top 16 players out.
On talent they are an 8 -12 side. Plus this year they go in with two top 16 players out.
tigersnake said:
Actually I am one of the few that don't cherry pick. When I compare coaching records I go to footywire and copy their coaching records without editing or cherry picking.
A very simple exercise. Its posters here that say Oh you cant compare X with Y because of Z. Z is usually subjective twaddle or some variety of groupthink or fanboiism.
I think Neeldy is generally regarded as the worst AFL coach in the recent past. However if you gave him another 4 years of coaching he'd still do worse than nil finals wins.
As for Aaron Keating he is no Daryl Fraeme.
PS The qusetion of whether Keating played in more flags than plugger is a question of fact. if the question is who played in more flags the answer is Keating. If the question is who kicked more goals then its Plugger.
My examples are usually relevant to the questions asked. Because some posters might have tunnel vision and comprehension issues that is sometimes missed.
If I ask a simple question like which coach has gone the longest without winning a final the usual cohort will get up in arms and say "what's that got to do with the price of herring?"
Denial of course is a very strong behaviour enforcer.
lamb22 said:
"Rightly" compared him to Tom Hafey? Come on. There is no comparison. What opportunities has Ken grasped that can be compared to Hafey? That he won a few finals then took a premiership favorite to 9th?
You are back to comparing apples with oranges.
Its like you basing the worth of a coach on his career win loss record, regardless of the list he inherited, the years he has been coach, the clubs he has coached and the resources at his disposal. Hardwick is a bottom 4 coach because his win loss record says so. Hinkley is a top 4 coach not because his win loss record says so (he is 8th) but rather because you say so,. Use stats to support an argument, ignore them if they don't. Cherry picking at its finest.
And our list is patently superior to Port's? Would be very few non-Richmond supporters who would agree with that. Its your opinion. But you have a habit of dressing your opinion as undisputed facts.
And thats the point. You overrate the list. And because you do, when it fails to live up to your expectations, its not because you are wwwwwwwwwrong, but because someone else (i.e. Dimma) is to blame.
lamb22 said:
This is like having a debate with a conspiracy theorist. You don't know where to start, you know it will take ages, and they are so convinced of their own view that it will all be pointless anyway.
Aaron Keating actually played OK in that finals series, plucked from the SANFL reserves and threw his body in like no tomorrow, which there wasn't for him, pretty inspiring handful of games career.
Hey Jessica, found any non richmond supporters that rated our list as top 4 over the last 3 years yet?
Found any that don't laugh at you for suggesting it?
But nah, post as if your opinion is a widely accepted footy fact.
Number 9. Number 9. Number 9. Number 9.
Found any that don't laugh at you for suggesting it?
But nah, post as if your opinion is a widely accepted footy fact.
Number 9. Number 9. Number 9. Number 9.
ninjahaha said:
Interesting conundrum? Ninja if we say finish 2nd this year am I right or are you right?
Similarly if we finish 8th am I right or are you right?
BTW here is a link to a study which showed that 55% of Americans believe in creationism rather than evolution. Maybe we should ask them about the strength of our list.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-majority-reject-evolution/
I habe never seen a thread about a practice game so busy over a week before the actual game......
