Midfield setup, it’s not right!!!!

[Tigers of Old]

We can turn it into a positive by playing the young ruckmen. But only the one's that are physically ready.

Heck if we are dominating the clearances it ain't because of our current rucks so might as well get the kids in there now.
I don't rate Patto as a ruck at all so we need to look past him too.

Browne obviously showed some potential early to named for round 1 so they obviously feel he's a big enough lad to handle it.
Time to give him another crack at it.

So Browne and Graham in against Sandilands. Might as well harden them up now for Simmo's departure at year's end.

 

[bowden4president]

Simmonds has cement legs and butter fingers this season.

His disappearance in 2007 is being mirrored this season by his poor form.

Time to fast track the young rucks.

Agree

I wouldn't be surprised to see a big improvement from Browne next season. From what I have seen of him, the only thing holding him back is his fitness.

 

[bringbakflemmo]

Heck if we are dominating the clearances it ain't because of our current rucks

The tap ruck work of Gus at centre bounces has been good this year and has contributed to our clearance rate.
Why not play Deledio at FF for the rest of the year ?
He is a quick lead a good mark and a good kick for goal.
He will never be an elite midfielder as he is too gunshy of body contact .
He is an outside player ( a very good one ) .
Guys like Simmonds and Gus have to play forward as we have no other tall candidates .
Schulz and Hughes are going through the motions at Coburg and the young guys are not ready yet.

 

[Backbone]

You're all a bunch of lunatics! Our midfield needs some tinkering, sure, but it's not the basketcase that everyone here is making it out to be. Maybe over the next 3-4 years we might be able to turnover Tuck, Jackson and Coughlan, however they're not so bad that you'd delist on spec that you might get something better in the 3rd or 4th round in the ND. Before delisting any of those three, we'd better be sure that Hislop and Thomson are upgrades on them, otherwise we're really would be heading down a path of a 10 year rebuild. (By the way folks, Jackson has only played just over 50 games, so there is still plenty of room and time to improve).

Think about our forward line for the moment ... we've had Simmonds, Graham, Pattison, Schulz and Riewoldt all in and out of the team and all most spending some or a lot of time in the forward line. We've had Brown and Morton either dropped or injured and we've had JON in the team as failed lead up HFF. The only player that in our forward line worth celebrating, to any extent is Nahas. Our talls aren't providing the right targets and our smalls (except Nahas) don't provide enough pressure or movement).

No structure, no target, no movement, no pressure - even the best midfield would have disposal problems with what we've had in our forward line.

 

[the claw]

Absolutely, the good teams however have well rounded players that can do both. We have very few of this ilk. Glass half full types as they are known on here. ;D

We've got a couple of youngsters that may well fill that breach.

this is the key it wasnt so long ago that we complained of not enough rxtractors just tuck and foley surrounded by very outside non ball winners. now we go the other way. if all of the inside playes could kick well it would not be so much of a problem. ironically 31 yr old ben cousins is the type we want pace smarts and good ball user. yep its either one or the other inside but slow with poor skills or outside quick usually with poor skills. if all mids/onballers at the club could kick well it would not be so much of a problem or if the inside players had a bit of real pace to get into space and buy time to deliver well it would not be so bad. bloody glass half fulls the worst kind of player they tend to hang around.

 

[Inspector]

Re: Midfield setup, it’s not right!!!!

The mix needs to be right you can't have all in & unders like Tuck Jackson Coughlan starting in the square none of them can use the footy you need Deledio Cotchin & Cousins even Collins or Nahas at times so the in & unders get the ball out to them. This is why Kerr was so important to Judd & Couisns he was the in & under the other two the finishers although Judd can do both bit like Cotchin hopefully. Brisbane was so good because all thier midfielders at the time could do both so no matter the rotation Voss Black Power Lappin Aker they could all win their own footy & pin point the passes.

 

[AstuteTiger]

It’s leysy’s view that since Cogs has come back into our setup we are exposing ourselves around the clearances.

We are smashing teams in clearance numbers but are not turning these into goals.

Conversely our opponent is torching us when they break from a stoppage.

Sure there’s more to it, but for example we have had 6 more clearances over the past fortnight but have scored only 6 goals to 14 direct from stoppages in this time. 8 goals difference in two games is a hell of a lot.

Leysy’s reasons -

1) Quality of clearances – Jackson, Tuck & Cogs are all average by foot. You can carry the odd “clearance” specialist who is mediocre by foot so that he can feed the runners. But we have three that are spending the vast majority of the game on the ball. Not for leysy. You can add Foley into this kicking category, however he does add a different element to the setup as he can spread from a stoppage.

Good post Leysy, mate ive been saying it for god knows how long about tuck and Jackson both being the starting mids who dont have the smarts to hurt the opposition, and to think i was howled down by a few posters for expressing that these 2 simply dont hurt the opposition when in possession and their decision making leaves a lot to be desired...

However i do agree that at least 1 of them should be in that mix more so for the grunt work and i would choose Jackson, younger & faster and has scope to improve, every midfield group has its foot soldiers and what i mean by that is players who can win the hard ball “extractors” but not necessarily have the skill or execution like the class players in open space to hurt the opposition....Jackson is in that category, so is White, Thompson, Polo, Hislop & Cogs....Polo perhaps the most skilful out of that lot looks awkward but can kick on both feet and sums up the situation better than most...

The class is Lids, Cotchin, Cousins and Foley (yes foley can spray em too) but can play both roles in and under and run and carry....

Collins could join this classy group in the next year or so, aint fast but has that pendlebury temperament where time seems to stop where he can make those right decisions...

This tells me that we need in this coming draft to target another 2 classy mids at a minimum, think cuz will stay on next year and from the little we’ve seen is deserving and thus allowing these new mids to develop without the pressure of being thrown in to the wolves....

We have at a min 6 foot soldiers all bar Cogs are 23 or under which gives us some depth for the coming years...

Tuck either they trade or delist or play him fwd....Cogs gee luved this bloke in his prime but could well be right that they might have to offer him for trade considering they recruited Hislop and Thompson to play his inside role...

Deledio, Cousins and Foley should be the starting midfield line up, all can win their own ball too.....you then have a Cotchin (until his fitness is up to being a starting mid more like next year) Jackson and Thompson along with cotch as the next string of mids to come in....back up mids and rotations should come from Collins, Tambling, Polo, White and Hislop...a mixture of speed and hardness.....

 

[Leysy Days]

Good post leysy, what thoughts do you have then on the recruitment of Thomson and Hislop to also play in the midfield?

Was against the recruitment of Thomson. Thought after 4 years in the system he wasn't worth giving up what we did in a strong draft.

The thing thats thrown things out is Cogs comeback. Dont think the club budgeted for it. We've got an over supply of inside mids now. & unfortunately the one's we've got whilst decent extractors are all slow & have poor skills so we get found out when we carry too many.

 

[Disco08]

What we really need is for Deledio to become a true ball winner. Cotchin too but that may not happen for a year or two yet. Hislop can make a difference here too I reckon. His kicking isn't as bad as made out and his handballing from in tight is the sort of skill that can really put teammates into attacking positions.

 

[Inspector]

Re: Midfield setup, it’s not right!!!!

One guy who could be added to the mix is Polo didn't realize how quick he was the stats on Saturday night showed he was one of the quickest players out there including Lovett White etc also can play inside & out.

 

[Leysy Days]

It’s leysy’s view that since Cogs has come back into our setup we are exposing ourselves around the clearances.

We are smashing teams in clearance numbers but are not turning these into goals.

Conversely our opponent is torching us when they break from a stoppage.

Sure there’s more to it, but for example we have had 6 more clearances over the past fortnight but have scored only 6 goals to 14 direct from stoppages in this time. 8 goals difference in two games is a hell of a lot.

Leysy’s reasons -

1) Quality of clearances – Jackson, Tuck & Cogs are all average by foot. You can carry the odd “clearance” specialist who is mediocre by foot so that he can feed the runners. But we have three that are spending the vast majority of the game on the ball. Not for leysy. You can add Foley into this kicking category, however he does add a different element to the setup as he can spread from a stoppage.

2) Run & Spread – When the opposition does break they are killing us by foot. They have the speed to run off our slow trio & create QUALITY clearances. Port for example who are setup too much the other way i.e soft, outside had Burgoyne, Pearce & Boak winning the clearances against us. We couldn’t go with them. Conversely we are unable to break free by foot so our “wins” from stoppages are typically a Tuck Light tower killer, a Cogs floater or an indiscriminate Jackson handball or kick to someone under as much pressure. There are too many of the same “type” to have the necessary skilled runners there to support them.

Doubt it will ever happen because clubs are so risk-free at trade time. But an exchange of any one of them to someone like Port for a long kicking (which we don’t have near enough of) outside mid like Pearce would be a win for both parties.

We desperately need the Chimp, Lids & more to be our prime midfielders to get us a better balance ILO. We will also need to make some hard decisions to our midfield setup which should see at least one of the Tuck, Cogs & Jackson spending a lot less time there. Also remember Thomson & Hislop are similar players we traded for last season that will be trying to push through.

Be Interesting to see how the new coach see’s things & what decisions he makes becuase ILO some tough one's will need to be made.

One thing leysy’s confident on, we’ll go nowhere with the nucleus we’ve got.

Noticed in today Sun it lists Richmond's opponents as having the HIGHEST strikerate of scoring from stoppages in the league.

This is a direct result of our lack of pressure & lack of defensive spread at stoppages that leysy mentioned early in the year.

It also shows how individual stats for players show only one side of the ledger. i.e Tuck's numbers come across as him one of the premier players in the league to have around a stoppage. The truth is that he offers no defensive side & is a liability when our opponents win the ball.

Other clubs know this & wont be trading for him nor would they draft him this off-season.

 

[jb03]

Noticed in today Sun it lists Richmond's opponents as having the HIGHEST strikerate of scoring from stoppages in the league.

This is a direct result of our lack of pressure & lack of defensive spread at stoppages that leysy mentioned early in the year.

It also shows how individual stats for players show only one side of the ledger. i.e Tuck's numbers come across as him one of the premier players in the league to have around a stoppage. The truth is that he offers no defensive side & is a liability when our opponents win the ball.

Other clubs know this & wont be trading for him nor would they draft him this off-season.

Heh heh heh just wanted to pat yourself on the back hey leysy.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

Tuck and Jacko?

 

[craig]

It’s leysy’s view that since Cogs has come back into our setup we are exposing ourselves around the clearances.

We are smashing teams in clearance numbers but are not turning these into goals.

Conversely our opponent is torching us when they break from a stoppage.

Sure there’s more to it, but for example we have had 6 more clearances over the past fortnight but have scored only 6 goals to 14 direct from stoppages in this time. 8 goals difference in two games is a hell of a lot.

Leysy’s reasons -

1) Quality of clearances – Jackson, Tuck & Cogs are all average by foot. You can carry the odd “clearance” specialist who is mediocre by foot so that he can feed the runners. But we have three that are spending the vast majority of the game on the ball. Not for leysy. You can add Foley into this kicking category, however he does add a different element to the setup as he can spread from a stoppage.

2) Run & Spread – When the opposition does break they are killing us by foot. They have the speed to run off our slow trio & create QUALITY clearances. Port for example who are setup too much the other way i.e soft, outside had Burgoyne, Pearce & Boak winning the clearances against us. We couldn’t go with them. Conversely we are unable to break free by foot so our “wins” from stoppages are typically a Tuck Light tower killer, a Cogs floater or an indiscriminate Jackson handball or kick to someone under as much pressure. There are too many of the same “type” to have the necessary skilled runners there to support them.

Doubt it will ever happen because clubs are so risk-free at trade time. But an exchange of any one of them to someone like Port for a long kicking (which we don’t have near enough of) outside mid like Pearce would be a win for both parties.

We desperately need the Chimp, Lids & more to be our prime midfielders to get us a better balance ILO. We will also need to make some hard decisions to our midfield setup which should see at least one of the Tuck, Cogs & Jackson spending a lot less time there. Also remember Thomson & Hislop are similar players we traded for last season that will be trying to push through.

Be Interesting to see how the new coach see’s things & what decisions he makes becuase ILO some tough one's will need to be made.

One thing leysy’s confident on, we’ll go nowhere with the nucleus we’ve got.

Here Here Maisey very concise and accurate.

Agree absolutely 100%.

The likes of Tuck, Jackson, White, Coughlan Polo ect are not the types to take the tigers forward re round the middle.

Same goes for ordinary talls of the same vain, Pattison, McGuane, Schulz cet

 

[Massai]

The midfield setup hasn't been right since Round 1, who's the midfield coach again?

 

[Scoop]

The lack of skill and ability to spread is not there.

 

[jb03]

It is actually a wonder our midfield has been so poor with Cousins magical influence.