Midfield setup, it’s not right!!!!

[Tigers of Old]

Great post daisy.

Midfield class is sorely needed.

That did not come with Hislop that I can see. Thomson too has already come under question but can't comment personally.

Agree that the Chimp's development as a mid is crucial.

Come end of season Tuck & Coughlan to be trade bait IMO.

 

[tigertrue]

Good post Leysy - I agree

Australia's greatest athlete is still MIA!

 

[Leysy Days]

i think that the figures show the midfield is working well.

Never mind the raw clearance figures. We are getting smashed on the spread when we dont win it.

Whats not working is the forward line. Time and time again we have the ball through the centre with no-one to kick to. Morton leads to the pocket and the rest are to small. When our best lead up forward in the last 2 weeks is 5"6' questions need to be asked WHY?

Is our forward line to small?
Do they work well together?
Why the flipping hell is Jack not in the team?
Why has Shulz never been left in the forward line for more than 5 minutes?

And the most important question.
Who is coaching the transitional football from the midfield to the forward line? or do they work to independant of each other?

Whilst leysy agrees that the forward half hasnt been setup well & we also have issues there, the point you make about the transition of the ball from the midfield to the front half is exactly the sympton leysy points out.

its because we have -
A) Too many poor kicks through the middle to provide quality ball forward.
B) Too many slow players that cant break clear of a clearance. This means we generally kick under pressure.

Yeah, Shamekha and Pumbles make good points - the overall structure sucks.

This small forward line issue has been a Wallace fetish since his time at the Dogs. Sure, it throws teams occassionally, but not for long.

Thats fair enough, doesn't our midfield structure is setup well though. Leysy also rates the midfield as the most influential & crucial part of the ground towards winning.

Come end of season Tuck & Coughlan to be trade bait IMO.

Along with Jackson they certainly should be. Doubt we'll get much unfortunately.

 

[shamekha]

Come end of season Tuck & Coughlan to be trade bait IMO.

To trade these 2 players would be going back in time to the days of Barrett being traded.. And i base this call on not getting rid of players that put their all into playing for the jumper.. Good clubman and do their job.

There are other players that would appeal more for the club to trade.

ie.. Pettifer

 

[Michael]

Agreed Leysey

However we look a lot more dangerous when Cousins is in there as well.
No questioning his run or skills.

Also the problem is that the ball coming out of the centre has to be spot on as the leads are so woeful
These midfielders need targets that present and get clear of their opponent

 

[shamekha]

its because we have -
A) Too many poor kicks through the middle to provide quality ball forward.
B) Too many slow players that cant break clear of a clearance. This means we generally kick under pressure.

Are you so sure that the pressure is not coming from having nothing to kick to. Many, many times players have streamed through the middle only to stop or kick across the ground because of the choices that are left up forward.

When all our players flood back and then have to run in a wave down the ground and into the forward line. It sets us up to fail. A kick travels faster. Therefore players have to wait or kick sideways..

Then if it doesn't come off we get smashed on the rebound.

 

[Tigers of Old]

To trade these 2 players would be going back in time to the days of Barrett being traded.. And i base this call on not getting rid of players that put their all into playing for the jumper.. Good clubman and do their job.

There are other players that would appeal more for the club to trade.

ie.. Pettifer

Pettifer will not attract much at all.

We need to upgrade on our mids to get better.

We need to test their value in the market.

Popularity shouldn't come into it.

Along with Jackson they certainly should be. Doubt we'll get much unfortunately.

I hesitated putting Jackson in their because I for one am still seeing improvement. He's also one of our few effective taggers with a strong body.

The other two are WYSIWYG.

However he's defo not untouchable at the right price.

 

[Massai]

Good Post LD, er who's the Mid Field Coach again???

 

[shamekha]

i am still haunted by the fact of RFC ripping the character out of the club back in the day. Now i know that people will say that the players have no heart anyway. i believe different.

Trading players like Tuck, Cogs and Jackson we would have to get better than worthy replacements. This won't happen.

Cogs has spent 3 years getting back to this stage, you don't just dump him.. LOYALTY is what the club must show,, Then maybe the players will follow with that same loyalty.

Players can't have it both ways. If the club shows loyalty then they must show it. If not then get rid of them.

 

[Scoop]

Hurt factor Leysy. Great point. All of our good clearance types, have a dip types, are getting us smashed. Quality is sorely lacking. Tuck, Coghulan, Jackson, Thomson, Hislop. Not a lot of hurt there. The last two have only been there year so they are not going to go. The club won’t dump Coughlan after his comeback.

I would happily throw Tuck and Jackson on the table and try and get a extra third or fourth rounder to try and get another runner with class.

Our movement any from a clearance is horrible, very rare we get a smooth takeaway. It is all panic and rush forward, brute force on the ball. Thus teams are happy to push numbers to half back because the clearance will just be tumbled forward and not to advantage.

Bar Deledio, Bar Foley and a fit Cotchin we have no one with hurt factor. Any surprise that the first two get looked at so heavily by the other coaching box?

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Agree. LD has hit the nail on the head. Not enough hurt factor going forward. I'm starting to get sick of Tucks rain makers to be quite honest.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

I suspect that it just as much to do with the fact that for the last two weeks the forward set up has revolved around Tambling, Morton, Brown, Nahas and Pettifer.

We've really only looked dangerous when Newman or Deledio has hit one of them lace out on the lead or when Simmonds/Graham has played full-forward for a few minutes.
Neither happens often enough to worry anyone.

Why has Newman been consistently left out of the primary midfield rotations by Wallace? Why has he not taken the opportunity to bring Thursfield or even Sylvester into the side and play either Moore or McGuane at CHF in the last two weeks? Why is Reivoldt at Coburg? Why not bring in another of the young ruckmen and play Simmonds as a permanent forward in Richo's absence, and maybe even prop one of the rucks in a pocket beside him for a few minutes?

On the midfield question, much as it is popular to want hard nuts, Leysy would know as well as anyone that skilful outside runners are even more important. Even McMahon would improve our chances of snagging a few more goals.

You're joking right - Simmonds lack of marking ability/lack of pace/lack of agility this year has hurt us no end. We have not looked dangerous with him at FF and when has a ruckman playing permanent FF ever worked? Notice the bulldogs trying to use Minson there with very little success. Simmonds is in such diabolical form he should be dropped. He must have an injury - as his best is very good.

 

[TOT70]

You're joking right - Simmonds lack of marking ability/lack of pace/lack of agility this year has hurt us no end. We have not looked dangerous with him at FF and when has a ruckman playing permanent FF ever worked? Notice the bulldogs trying to use Minson there with very little success. Simmonds is in such diabolical form he should be dropped. He must have an injury - as his best is very good.

I agree that Simmonds should be dropped, he has shown very little so far this season. I'm merely commenting on the lack of marking targets on the forward line, for team balance, at least one tall forward is required. We are consistently smashing opposition teams around the clearances but struggling for contested marks in the forward 50. A forward line of Morton, Brown, Nahas, Pettifer and Tambling requires quality delivery if they are to kick enough goals. Read the post and you will see that I offerd at least three possible strategies.

 

[RUNVS]

What do U expect with Wayne Campbell at the helm. JACK SHIZENHOUSEN

 

[Big Cat Lover]

I agree that Simmonds should be dropped, he has shown very little so far this season. I'm merely commenting on the lack of marking targets on the forward line, for team balance, at least one tall forward is required. We are consistently smashing opposition teams around the clearances but struggling for contested marks in the forward 50. A forward line of Morton, Brown, Nahas, Pettifer and Tambling requires quality delivery if they are to kick enough goals. Read the post and you will see that I offerd at least three possible strategies.

The strategies you offered all involve Simonds at FF - IMO no.

I'm totally against ruckman playing as FF's. Not any sort of solution. Yes they can play cameo roles in the forward line but should not be considered the key forward posts.

I've stated heaps of times that a midget forward line is no solution either, especially the treacle type way we move the ball. Has been embarrassing watching the forward lines paraded at various times during the Melb/Bris/Ess games. But ruckman as permanent forwards are no solution. I think we should have at least 2 genuine marking target as well as Morton in the forward line - Reiwoldt at CHF and one of Schulz/Gourdis/Hughes at FF.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Simmonds has cement legs and butter fingers this season.

His disappearance in 2007 is being mirrored this season by his poor form.

Time to fast track the young rucks.

 

[tigersnake]

I agree we can't have Jacko, Cogs and Tuck.

Point I'd take Tuck out SAP. All things considered, not good enough.

Jacko, disposal and decision making getting better and, let him develop more for now. May yet turn out to be another Tuck, but a bigger, tougher, faster one. (Jackson isn't slow, not the flash, but not slow)

Cogs, just back from injury, needs a bit of time. May be tough for him in the long term.

I agree you can only carry 1, it depends on amount of upside, At the moment for me: Jackson, looks likely, Tuck, gone, Cogs, wait and see.

 

[Leysy Days]

Simmonds has cement legs and butter fingers this season.

His disappearance in 2007 is being mirrored this season by his poor form.

Time to fast track the young rucks.

Simmonds has been decent value for what we gave up both financially & draftwise.

His knee is shot now & unfortunately at his height his leap was his major weapon.

We can turn it into a positive by playing the young ruckmen. But only the one's that are physically ready.

 

[TOT70]

The strategies you offered all involve Simonds at FF - IMO no.

No they don't. I offered it as one scenario out of three for the last two weeks, given the forward line we have taken into games.

FWIW, I would play Reivoldt out of the square and move either Moore or McGuane up forward, clearing space for Thursfield and Rance, upon his return from injury, to play as tall defenders. Graham and a rotation of Vickery and Browne would round out my talls.

I wouldn't bother with Schulz and Hughes again and would probably make room for Gourdis, Post and Putt to get a couple of games each as support talls later in the year, depending on form.

I'll bet that a forward line consisting of Reivoldt, Moore/McGuane, Brown, Morton, Nahas and Tambling will do more damage than one where Morton is the key leading figure, esp if a resting ruckman repalces one ofthe smalls up there for a couple of minutes each quarter.

 

[Leysy Days]

You're joking right - Simmonds lack of marking ability/lack of pace/lack of agility this year has hurt us no end. We have not looked dangerous with him at FF and when has a ruckman playing permanent FF ever worked? Notice the bulldogs trying to use Minson there with very little success. Simmonds is in such diabolical form he should be dropped. He must have an injury - as his best is very good.

Agree there Big Cat.

Ruckmen resting forward are a thing of the past & went out with Simon Madden. Defenders sweat on them, bring the ball to ground & away they go.