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Marriage Equality
- Thread starter Ian4
- Start date
Harry said:
you can wait for it.
in the meantime you get to vote in a survey on whether same sex couples should be allowed to marry..
Harry said:
I'd just wonder why anyone would oppose it other than religious nutbags?
How will it affect your life harry and why would you vote no?
I'd more accuse people of ignorance rather than hatred or bigotry, unless that's what it is.
I'd love to go to a gay wedding, generally better quality of music.
My wife and I are both voting "no", because we believe that marriage should be reserved for heterosexual couples.
Civil union can be created for SSM couples, providing them equal rights under the law.
I'm not religious in any way shape or form. The last time I went to a church was for a funeral, and the previous time was because I love gothic architecture and was in Europe.
The scenarios of gay/lesbian partners having to prove they're relationship at the worst possible times seems horrendous and unfair. (As an example).
However I don't believe an institution like marriage should have it's meaning diluted to satisfy the yes campaign. If it's about wanting the same legal rights, you can have em. It's just not called the same.
Civil union can be created for SSM couples, providing them equal rights under the law.
I'm not religious in any way shape or form. The last time I went to a church was for a funeral, and the previous time was because I love gothic architecture and was in Europe.
The scenarios of gay/lesbian partners having to prove they're relationship at the worst possible times seems horrendous and unfair. (As an example).
However I don't believe an institution like marriage should have it's meaning diluted to satisfy the yes campaign. If it's about wanting the same legal rights, you can have em. It's just not called the same.
Don't like the way the yes campaign is run JB. I acknowledge though that there needs to be legal equality, which is supposedly what is being fought for. If it is, then civil unions should be an OK compromise.
I honestly don't think there's a "basic" human rights issue here. I fail to see "right to marriage" (for heterosexual or SSM) as anywhere near as important to right to an education, to shelter, to food, to medical care. They're basic needs. Marriage isn't.
All that said, if I were gay and my partner was in the Intensive Care and I was told I wasn't family and couldn't see them, I'd be mortified. That stuff has to be stopped from happening.
I honestly don't think there's a "basic" human rights issue here. I fail to see "right to marriage" (for heterosexual or SSM) as anywhere near as important to right to an education, to shelter, to food, to medical care. They're basic needs. Marriage isn't.
All that said, if I were gay and my partner was in the Intensive Care and I was told I wasn't family and couldn't see them, I'd be mortified. That stuff has to be stopped from happening.
The_General said:
"Sometimes find myself wondering if I’d hate-*smile* all the anti-gay MPs in parliament if it meant they got the homophobia out of their system."
- Benjamin Law
Hate-*smile*. Is that a good thing?
The_General said:
Why do you feel so strongly that there should be a distinction between your marriage and someone else's? How does it affect you if Civil Union just gets replaced with Marriage? I don't get the objection Mien General?
I just feel that some traditions shouldn't be tampered with. What I feel marriage stands for is important to me.KnightersRevenge said:
Why do you feel there is a need to be "married", if there is a legally equivalent option. Isn't this all just about equal rights?
The_General said:
[EDIT]I don't. I have no skin in the game, I'm an avowed atheist and contrarian I got married only because it mattered to my wife. My commitment to her has nothing to do with the bit of paper we have. It's more important to ask the gay couple who are refused access to something you hold dear and think they shouldn't be allowed to have. The 'tradition' did not expressly exclude them under Australian law until Howard changed it. Not much of a tradition. Many cultures much older than Anglo Saxon but probably including it have allowed polygamy. Homosexuality or at least a less rigid definition of sexuality has been the norm at various stages of human history. Tradition is a poor excuse, in my book. If you have an actual reason I'd be interested but tradition is an excuse, not a reason IMO. On equality "Equal but separate" has a pretty dirty history. If it's equal why does it need to be separate?
You said it" what it stands for is important" to you but you didn't outline what that is or how other people being allowed to marry has any affect on that. Would you care to expand on it a bit?
Not really Knighter.
You're attitude is part of the reason I'll vote no. There's a lack of respect for how a person feels. It' comes across as quite arrogant. Who deemed you the arbiter of what is an "actual reason" or not? Why do I need to answer to you, to see if I measure up to your version of what is valid or not?
"I don't like your reason, come back and tell me when you have a better one."
You're asking me to validate my values against your value system, and invariably from the social media debates I've seen that just leads no where. I'll accept and respect you have a different stance. I'll accept and respect if the law changes.
I'd just ask you respect mine. I'll also note you have avoided answering the question I've asked.
You're attitude is part of the reason I'll vote no. There's a lack of respect for how a person feels. It' comes across as quite arrogant. Who deemed you the arbiter of what is an "actual reason" or not? Why do I need to answer to you, to see if I measure up to your version of what is valid or not?
"I don't like your reason, come back and tell me when you have a better one."
You're asking me to validate my values against your value system, and invariably from the social media debates I've seen that just leads no where. I'll accept and respect you have a different stance. I'll accept and respect if the law changes.
I'd just ask you respect mine. I'll also note you have avoided answering the question I've asked.
The_General said:
As is your wont. I am non the wiser as to how your marriage is special compared to a gay persons. If it isn't they should both be the same. Equal. You don't call it something different if it's the same.
If the way other people talk about it is enough for you decide to restrict the access of a whole section of society to something you take for granted then unfortunately you are worthy of my contempt. How vacuous.
I'm arrogant but somehow this is about how you feel? Your marriage isn't threatened by this. The feelings that matter in this debate aren't yours, they are the feelings of the people who you are choosing to deny access to equal marriage. Your life isn't change by this one iota. It's their lives that are affected. But I'm arrogant?
You don't, but this a forum. I can ask any question I want and you can chose to engage or not. My opinions should have no effect on you really. I know my posting comes across as arrogant, it is the way I write, I get plenty of sh!t for the way emails come across too. Most people who meet me like me. ;D
It's just that to me "tradition" is the worst answer to any question. It is a non-answer. It requires no thought. It is simply "this is how we we've always done it". It isn't. It changes all the time. Marriage used to exclude inter-race couples. In many places it still excludes inter-faith couples. The nasty bit of law Howard (with the help of Labor) instituted explicitly disregards marriages in other jurisdictions once they move to Australia. How is that for "respecting the law"?
No I don't think I am. I am asking you to enunciate your reasons. You don't have to. You feel that your marriage is different to a gay persons. I'd like to know why or how? If it isn't different why in the world should it be called something else?
Accept yes. Respect no. So far as I can tell you asked 2 questions [quote author=The_General]
Why do you feel there is a need to be "married", if there is a legally equivalent option. Isn't this all just about equal rights?
[/quote] and I answered both. I don't have a need to be married. And if it is all about equality then separate but equal isn't equal. Equal is equal.
antman said:
Such as? There is no "reason" that won't attract such accusations. Margaret Court anyone? As i said, the no voters should keep it to themselves cos there is alot of intolerance to alternate views.
Similar to Lee my place of work is distributing yes material to it's employees. Pathetic. If you vote no don't share this at work or you might well be unemployed. It's getting beyond ridiculous.
I hate the entire thing. The waste of money. The weak government. The unsolicited phone calls. The bullying. The people judging others and virtually telling them what they should believe and vote. The intolerance of other viewpoints. Virtually all of this I've experienced has come from the Yes camp unfortunately.
Just so you're clear, you think marriage should be open to all relationships? Otherwise I'll throw the same label your way.antman said:
