Justice?

[MB78]

Not torn at all - if an adequate sentence was handed down to one or more of these thugs then maybe that would prevent a few future ones from happening.
One of these future assaults may well be my son, or one of his friends, who will be out there in a few short years.

Same goes for those caught carrying weapons - major pain for them.

wanna be tough guys can meet some real tough guys inside!

Well said.

 

[spook]

"That's not what justice is," the colonel jeered, and began pounding the table again with his big fat hand. "That's what Karl Marx is. I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning." - Catch-22.

Harsher manslaughter sentences will do nothing to deter drunk thugs from swinging punches. No one swings a punch thinking much at all, let alone the possibility they might kill their target and serve a long stretch.

Jail is a breeding ground for criminals. Petty thieves come out with a Masters in Scumbaggery. However, paroling repeat offenders is asking for offenders to repeat.

 

[AngryAnt]

Harsher manslaughter sentences will do nothing to deter drunk thugs from swinging punches. No one swings a punch thinking much at all, let alone the possibility they might kill their target and serve a long stretch.

Well written spook.

You can argue for longer sentences in order to punish the guilty more severely, but you can't argue for longer sentences as a deterrent. Aggressive drunks are not rational.

 

[Rfc4Ever]

Aggressive drunks are not rational.

Most drunks aren't rational.

 

[AngryAnt]

True. Point?

 

[This Is Anfield]

Well written spook.

You can argue for longer sentences in order to punish the guilty more severely, but you can't argue for longer sentences as a deterrent. Aggressive drunks are not rational.

Are they only aggressive because they are drunk? or are they aggressive anyway?
I've been drunk many atime in my life & have never felt the need to "king hit" or start a fight!

If, and I'm only advocating adequate sentencing here, it curbs aggressive intent before getting drunk then it may save a life or two (and help stop the aggressor from ruining his or her life).

It also ties in with the disgraceful attitude the young people of today have towards the police - no respect & no fear of consequences.
Stronger penalties for carrying concealed weapons should be a start.

The rights of the victim should outweigh the rights of the guilty - often this doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Rosy]

.....
It also ties in with the disgraceful attitude the some young people of today have towards the police - no respect & no fear of consequences.
Stronger penalties for carrying concealed weapons should be a start.

.....

Modified.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Modified.

Of course you are correct - and it's not even close to most. As usual it's the minority that spoils it for the vast law abiding majority.

 

[AngryAnt]

Are they only aggressive because they are drunk? or are they aggressive anyway?
I've been drunk many atime in my life & have never felt the need to "king hit" or start a fight!

If, and I'm only advocating adequate sentencing here, it curbs aggressive intent before getting drunk then it may save a life or two (and help stop the aggressor from ruining his or her life).

It won't. That's the point.

It also ties in with the disgraceful attitude the young people of today have towards the police - no respect & no fear of consequences.
Stronger penalties for carrying concealed weapons should be a start.

The rights of the victim should outweigh the rights of the guilty - often this doesn't appear to be the case.

I love the "young people of today" argument - it's been around for millenia.

 

[MB78]

One thing I think needs to be considered with sentencing more is the victim impact statement. Too many times this is disregarded as it's all about the perpetrator.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I love the "young people of today" argument - it's been around for millenia.

You don't feel that there are more weapons carried today?

That the policing is softer than it was?

That the problem of drugs, far more variety & availability, isn't more so today?

I could be completely wrong but that's how I see it.

And it's not just the kids that have no respect for the police these days either!

 

[AngryAnt]

You don't feel that there are more weapons carried today?

That the policing is softer than it was?

That the problem of drugs, far more variety & availability, isn't more so today?

I could be completely wrong but that's how I see it.

And it's not just the kids that have no respect for the police these days either!

I'll treat this as a grab bag, but because I don't watch Today Tonight, A Current Affair or partake of other media of that ilk, by and large, no I don't think that. Crimes against the person are largely declining and have been for a long time. Globally and historically Australians live in one of the safest, least violent periods of human history.

More weapons? Not particularly - I remember *smile* kids carrying knives back in the 70s.

Greater variety of drugs? Certainly. Which of these are harmful? Which causes the most social distress, the most disease, the most violence? The answer is in the posts above.

Policing softer? Dunno, haven't been arrested recently. If you are referring to the justice system and sentencing, say so. Provide evidence.

Not just kids that have no respect for the police? Look at history, even specifically Australian history. The Jacks have been on the nose for a long time brother.

I've heard all this before - kids these days, society is falling apart, no respect, bla bla bla bla bla.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I'll treat this as a grab bag, but because I don't watch Today Tonight, A Current Affair or partake of other media of that ilk, by and large, no I don't think that.

So I guess all my thoughts & beliefs obviously come exclusively from those sources!!!!

That's me told!

Poor Kieran, how unfortunate for him that Thomas Kelly is causing him so much grief & suffering.

 

[MB78]

Poor Kieran, how unfortunate for him that Thomas Kelly is causing him so much grief & suffering.

That's what I don't get from reading the above posts.

What would you tell his parents and girlfriend?


I would be telling them how sorry that the smile only got 6 years.

 

[This Is Anfield]

That's what I don't get from reading the above posts.

What would you tell his parents and girlfriend?


I would be telling them how sorry that the smile only got 6 years.

Ah well. That's why I'm withdrawing from the politics threads - joined PRE to enjoy banter with fellow Tigers but got sucked in.
It's more the vitriol that Coburgtiger put forth the other day that convinced me it's not worth it.
It did say enter at own risk so my bad.

Plus I don't understand most of what gia/bullus etc are saying most of the time ;D they don't go that deep on A Current Tonight or Today's Affair!

I'll enjoy duelling with Antman in the Premier League thread instead.

Cheers MB78.

 

[Rosy]

...
Harsher manslaughter sentences will do nothing to deter drunk thugs from swinging punches. No one swings a punch thinking much at all, let alone the possibility they might kill their target and serve a long stretch.

Jail is a breeding ground for criminals. Petty thieves come out with a Masters in Scumbaggery. However, paroling repeat offenders is asking for offenders to repeat.

Would anyone feel someone should walk away unpunished if it was their family member whose life was cut so tragically short? If not what punishment would be deemed appropriate for someone who has taken another person's life and robbed family and friends of their loved one? 5 years in jail probably wouldn't be a whole lot different to 10 years as far as learning from the Scumbaggers.

 

[tigertim]

Ah well. That's why I'm withdrawing from the politics threads - joined PRE to enjoy banter with fellow Tigers but got sucked in.
It's more the vitriol that Coburgtiger put forth the other day that convinced me it's not worth it.
It did say enter at own risk so my bad.

Plus I don't understand most of what gia/bullus etc are saying most of the time ;D they don't go that deep on A Current Tonight or Today's Affair!

I'll enjoy duelling with Antman in the Premier League thread instead.

Cheers MB78.

It's a pity isn't it. Posters on many different threads spreading their intolerance and trying to brow beat others posters into submission by belittling them. I too can't be bothered with politics thread. The lynch mob mentality is too much for me.

 

[Rosy]

.... but you can't argue for longer sentences as a deterrent. Aggressive drunks are not rational.

Disagree. Drunk drivers who take others' lives aren't rational either. The likelihood of hefty punishment would be far more of a deterrent than the likelihood of a token rap over the knuckles in case bad habits are learned in jail.

 

[MB78]

Watching 60 minutes now. Very interesting.

 

[AngryAnt]

Sorry for any offence kids.

If you read back, you'll see I wrote that you might call for a longer sentence on the grounds of punishment, but it doesn't make sense to call for increased sentences as a deterrent in such cases. Seems logical to me, and note I didn't say I thought the 6 year sentence for that clown was one I supported, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good story.

TIA then asked me about whether I thought there was an increase in variety of drugs, softer policing, etc etc etc. I answered him and gave reasons for my opinions. This offended the hell out Tigertim who alleges that I'm part of a movement bullying and browbeating people, spreading intolerance, and acting as a lynch mob.

Possibly a little hyperbolic, but I'll try harder to agree with y'all in future, I wouldn't want to be oppressing people with my nasty opinions would I.