Ivan Soldo

[UKTiger]

I realise we need to get some experience in our mids right now as this is where we are losing games but on the ruck situation, we only have two current AFL level ruckmen on our books. Lose one via trade and we are left with one and if he goes down we are in big trouble. We have Ryan still learning his trade in the VFL, Colina two or three years away at best and based on the last few games of the 22 season have Ben Miller as a back up ruck. it is going to be a hard choice, losing Soldo and fixing our mids problem or keeping two good rucks and losing out on Hopper. Just hope the club can work it all work out to minimise any manpower risk next season and beyond

 

[Tortured Tiger]

Yet Grundy will destroy the fabric of the team apparently.

Ha, you should of been a musician Bully, you just love hitting the same old drum over and over again !

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Problem we have is that Nank & Soldo are too similar and both are dinosaur types
As a backup ? How many teams have a great 'spare' ruckman waiting in the wings getting $350k-$400k and Soldo would be getting that after 7/8 years at the club.

If and thats If Nank gets injured there is nothing o say it will be a season ending injury and may miss a few games but we need to evolve and not be so dependant whilst Ryan gets games and develops his game. Maybe Soldo leaving will give Ryan he opportunity to shine and fast track his game as he is now big enough and strong enough and has a good leap to compete

Im ok with trading Soldo out and drafting a young Ruck or even a mature Ruck on the rookie list
sick of getting smashed in clearances

 

[Tigers of Old]

Problem we have is that Nank & Soldo are too similar and both are dinosaur types

They're not similar at all & Nank is a recent 3 time Premiership 'dinosaur'.

 

[FitenFitenWin]

Another pre-season, an aggressive and competitive nature, decent physical and footy skills. I think Ryan will be cherry ripe for a dozen or so games this year - with maybe a couple as the main act.

 

[Liam_Nissan]

I am yet to see anyone say that Grundy is not a great ruck. There is a question with recent injuries but he is likely to come back as a decent ruck even if he is not as good as he was before.

But what Grundy also is, is a bloody great hole in your salary cap. He is too expensive, even if Collingwood pay part of his salary.

I don't want to see Soldo go, I do worry about Nank's longevity. But Nank was tapping the ball down in the EF and out mids weren't there. It wasn't so much where Nank was tapping the ball, he wasn't tapping it to the opposition, it was far more a case of the opposition mids, particularly Neale, having the ability to get to where the ball was going, something we couldn't do even though it was our ruck who was winning the taps. Quality mids are not easy to find, otherwise we wouldn't have been short of clearance mids in 2022 and we would have had a player who could get to where our ruck was tapping the ball.

There is a very good reason why mids are generally paid more than rucks - they are scarcer.

DS

My argument is that he is not going to improve. The trend line is declining. He has peaked and still has 5 years on his deal.

I just don’t see him being the force he was. That’s fine he can still be a very handy ruck/forward but on the coin he’s on I’d be spending that money elsewhere

 

[achillesjones]

Miller has a great physique and is mobile. Maybe train him up as a second ruck. If we trade Soldo out, he is our next best option at this stage.
Not much point paying overs for a mature second ruck when we have one now...

 

[achillesjones]

We should invite Josh Dunkley back to the club for a walk around just to send a message to GWS that we have options to Hopper.

 

[bullus_hit]

I am yet to see anyone say that Grundy is not a great ruck. There is a question with recent injuries but he is likely to come back as a decent ruck even if he is not as good as he was before.

But what Grundy also is, is a bloody great hole in your salary cap. He is too expensive, even if Collingwood pay part of his salary.

I don't want to see Soldo go, I do worry about Nank's longevity. But Nank was tapping the ball down in the EF and out mids weren't there. It wasn't so much where Nank was tapping the ball, he wasn't tapping it to the opposition, it was far more a case of the opposition mids, particularly Neale, having the ability to get to where the ball was going, something we couldn't do even though it was our ruck who was winning the taps. Quality mids are not easy to find, otherwise we wouldn't have been short of clearance mids in 2022 and we would have had a player who could get to where our ruck was tapping the ball.

There is a very good reason why mids are generally paid more than rucks - they are scarcer.

DS

That couldn't be further from the truth in my opinion & the RFC are about to find out as they scramble to find a decent replacement for Soldo. You say mids are scarcer but Brodie was sold for steak knives last year, he was someone I was calling for but that was met with derision & mockery here on PRE. When I scan the list of AFL rucks there's Gawn, Grundy, Darcy, English & then daylight, Riley O'Brien probably the next best, Witts another who has a few runs on the board. People also forgetting Grundy became more of a focal point in 2021, there's swingman potential, he's also not outrageously expensive, 700k doesn't represent dodgy dealings from where I'm standing.

 

[kiwitiger]

Interesting listening to Buckley the other morning speaking of ruckman ,

He said in the modern game you are best to spend as little as possible of your cap on ruckman , spend just what you think you can get away with , and spend it elsewhere on key position players and midfielders

It sounded like an admission they got it wrong at Collingwood with Grundy

 

[Redford]

Interesting listening to Buckley the other morning speaking of ruckman ,

He said in the modern game you are best to spend as little as possible of your cap on ruckman , spend just what you think you can get away with , and spend it elsewhere on key position players and midfielders

It sounded like an admission they got it wrong at Collingwood with Grundy

Apparently there’s “personality” issues with Grundy as well. Not a team person either apparently they were saying on radio the other day.

Who cares I suppose. Unless worlds collide he’s not playing for Richmond anyway.

 

[bullus_hit]

Interesting listening to Buckley the other morning speaking of ruckman ,

He said in the modern game you are best to spend as little as possible of your cap on ruckman , spend just what you think you can get away with , and spend it elsewhere on key position players and midfielders

It sounded like an admission they got it wrong at Collingwood with Grundy

The modern game flips & flops depending on the flavour of the month. Grundy has been one of the most influential players in finals over the past 5 years, if Sheed shanks a kick then Grundy is a premiership ruck who has probably been Collingwood's most influential player. Buckley should know better, the fact the competition hasn't produced many gun rucks is simply a matter of limited talent coming through the junior ranks. There was a time when rucks were gold, Dean Cox would slot in beautifully in this day & age, a fully fit Naitanui another hugely influential player. I reckon if your only line of reasoning is premierships then it is simplistic analysis, I'd be more inclined to look at finals performances in totality, particularly given the difference between genius & insanity can be decided by a kick in the dying minutes of a game. The fact that Collingwood paid a silly amount shouldn't detract from Grundy's value as a 20 touch ruck. 700k a year fair weight for his contribution & I think Melbourne have done exceedingly well if this deal gets done for a second rounder.

 

[TigerWinner]

The modern game flips & flops depending on the flavour of the month. Grundy has been one of the most influential players in finals over the past 5 years, if Sheed shanks a kick then Grundy is a premiership ruck who has probably been Collingwood's most influential player. Buckley should know better, the fact the competition hasn't produced many gun rucks is simply a matter of limited talent coming through the junior ranks. There was a time when rucks were gold, Dean Cox would slot in beautifully in this day & age, a fully fit Naitanui another hugely influential player. I reckon if your only line of reasoning is premierships then it is simplistic analysis, I'd be more inclined to look at finals performances in totality, particularly given the difference between genius & insanity can be decided by a kick in the dying minutes of a game. The fact that Collingwood paid a silly amount shouldn't detract from Grundy's value as a 20 touch ruck. 700k a year fair weight for his contribution & I think Melbourne have done exceedingly well if this deal gets done for a second rounder.

I think the 200cm+ rucks have negated the athletic 195cm types who dominated ruck roles pre 2000.

 

[bullus_hit]

I think the 200cm+ rucks have negated the athletic 195cm types who dominated ruck roles pre 2000.

Rucks are getting taller, in fact mids are also getting taller, that's evolution & the product of generational body mass gains. I don't think there's a one size fits all template, it's more to do with the overall productivity. I personally prefer English to Darcy, but that's just me, others could mount a solid case for the bigger bodied rucks. Was Sandilands a better player than Cox? Again, I'd take Cox every day of the week. I also think it's dangerous to be assuming the state leagues will cough up the goods, I see flaws in this strategy & feel the offerings are a can short of a six pack.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Rucks are getting taller, in fact mids are also getting taller, that's evolution & the product of generational body mass gains. I don't think there's a one size fits all template, it's more to do with the overall productivity. I personally prefer English to Darcy, but that's just me, others could mount a solid case for the bigger bodied rucks. Was Sandilands a better player than Cox? Again, I'd take Cox every day of the week. I also think it's dangerous to be assuming the state leagues will cough up the goods, I see flaws in this strategy & feel the offerings are a can short of a six pack.

Max Nobel still have growth in him ?
listed as 204cm and late june birthday could he get to 207/208 maybe ?

 

[year of the tiger]

Apparently there’s “personality” issues with Grundy as well. Not a team person either apparently they were saying on radio the other day.

Who cares I suppose. Unless worlds collide he’s not playing for Richmond anyway.

Sounds like the pies dug out an old press release from a few years back and changed the word Treloar with Grundy…….

 

[Scoop]

Rucks are getting taller, in fact mids are also getting taller, that's evolution & the product of generational body mass gains. I don't think there's a one size fits all template, it's more to do with the overall productivity. I personally prefer English to Darcy, but that's just me, others could mount a solid case for the bigger bodied rucks. Was Sandilands a better player than Cox? Again, I'd take Cox every day of the week. I also think it's dangerous to be assuming the state leagues will cough up the goods, I see flaws in this strategy & feel the offerings are a can short of a six pack.

Bully, you are banking on state league onballers for your anti Taranto & Hopper - Tom Mitchell take and now you say you can’t bank on state league BACK UP RUCKS????

Look at St Kilda with Jack Hayes. I bet theres 10 more like him. A back up ruck is the most easy spot to fill on the list.
Thats what Soldo is.

 

[tigerlove]

Bully, you are banking on state league onballers for your anti Taranto & Hopper - Tom Mitchell take and now you say you can’t bank on state league BACK UP RUCKS????

Look at St Kilda with Jack Hayes. I bet theres 10 more like him. A back up ruck is the most easy spot to fill on the list.
Thats what Soldo is.

Yep, if it means a deal on Hopper Soldo is definitely expendable. Miller showed himself to be an able back-up ruckman and he's only a cm shorter than Nanks. And at some stage we need to start giving Samson a taste, he starts next year as a 22yo and shows lots of promise. With what picks we had left we were always going to struggle to meet the needs without sweetening with a player. If Soldo is the best we have to give away, it's a win as far as I'm concerned.

 

[UKTiger]

Miller has a great physique and is mobile. Maybe train him up as a second ruck. If we trade Soldo out, he is our next best option at this stage.
Not much point paying overs for a mature second ruck when we have one now...

In the last couple of games or so from last season Ben showed he has the attributes to be a good second ruck even if he is a bit undersized at 1.98M and 96 kg

 

[bullus_hit]

Bully, you are banking on state league onballers for your anti Taranto & Hopper - Tom Mitchell take and now you say you can’t bank on state league BACK UP RUCKS????

Look at St Kilda with Jack Hayes. I bet theres 10 more like him. A back up ruck is the most easy spot to fill on the list.
Thats what Soldo is.

If your best example is a bloke who has played 5 games, had 13 hit outs in total & is 193cm then we are in trouble.

Harry Boyd the best SANFL player but at 198cm he will be undersized & probably out of his depth.