It's time - Jack into the middle

[Carter]

First I need to acknowledge Spooker, who has been advocating this move for a while now.

I've been saying all summer that we're light on for grunt and Maric is on his last legs.

Unless Conca seriously steps up and Townsend proves to match Jacko in endeavour as well as size, we are going to need a containment policy in the middle.

This means degrading the opposition clearance. Effective, but we will leak inside 50s which is never ideal. We depend far too much on Rance and Vlastuin as it is.

Unless ...

Jack goes in. Doesn't have to be all game, just for extended creative sorties. When we want to make the play. Or arrest opposition momentum. We have Griff, Ty and McBean looming up forward along with Deledio, Lennon, Lloyd and Martin in highly skilled support.

Surely we can release Jack for ruck roving assignments for 40% of the time.

The thing about Jack is he is sublime in heavy traffic. I can see him releasing the likes of Shed and Cotch with a deft tap here, a canny block there. He is just so smart. Plus, he cops intense opp focus which takes away from prime extractors Cotch and Miles.

His field kicking is elite. Elite. He is different to Richo in that he wouldn't be able to find space like he did. But Richo didn't have Jack's uncanny read of the ground ball.

The best part? Jack can even give Ivan a chop out from time to time. "Need me to go third man up?" "Want me to sit on this tiring ruck's head?"

The beauty of all this is Jack is large enough to be a strong presence in the pack and take opportunistic hitouts. He is small and smart enough to win some contested footy and help his midfield comrades win theirs.

The move requires innovation and vision. Not sure if Dimma has enough funk in him.

 

[mrposhman]

You do realise that this already goes on?? There were numerous times last year where Jack was started in the centre bounce. He's not purely left in the opposition F50 anymore. Even look at the Collingwood game (this is one that I'm not sure people gave Dimma and Jack enough credit) but they threw Jack up the ground and way outside of the F50 (taking I think it was Frost with him) leaving Vickery in F50 with either an undersized defender or an inexperienced one and he came away with 6 goals.

I think some on this board don't really get that we are becoming more innovative, we saw that in 2015 and I think we will see that even more so in 2016.

 

[Carter]

You do realise that this already goes on?? There were numerous times last year where Jack was started in the centre bounce. He's not purely left in the opposition F50 anymore. Even look at the Collingwood game (this is one that I'm not sure people gave Dimma and Jack enough credit) but they threw Jack up the ground and way outside of the F50 (taking I think it was Frost with him) leaving Vickery in F50 with either an undersized defender or an inexperienced one and he came away with 6 goals.

I think some on this board don't really get that we are becoming more innovative, we saw that in 2015 and I think we will see that even more so in 2016.

Come on, you aren't seriously suggesting Riewoldt has played any significant game time in the middle.

Dimma lets him roam occasionally but that's to facilitate deep transition, not generate clearances.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Doubt that Jaaack would ever become more than an occasional mid, but Dimma has been working for about three or four years at getting Jaaack away from the locked in key froward role. Working on his tank n pushing him up to be that roaming creative forward half player.
Been plenty howling n bleating over the years about the coach taking our best forward away from goal n trying to make him a much more valuable all round forward half player too.

Forward half has been getting a bit more variable over the last couple of years with the likes of Lids, Dusty, Cotch, Shed, Ty, Maric, Griff, Lloyd, Lennon, Gordon, all able to pop up n take a stint in the forward arc while Jaaack is roaming. Even get a few boys sneak down off half back trying to scrounge a sausage. But there is still an issue of most of the half backs n mids looking for Jaaack first any time we open up into attack when Jaaack is not necessarily the best option. If we get things to click properly I've no doubt we can brutalise a few sides.

 

[mrposhman]

Come on, you aren't seriously suggesting Riewoldt has played any significant game time in the middle.

Dimma lets him roam occasionally but that's to facilitate deep transition, not generate clearances.

He can't play any significant time in the middle as there is no-one else in the F50 that would be any good against their best defender. TV has hardly set the world alight yet, he's looked good in patches, but thats all been on the 2nd defender. He's yet to show anything to suggest he could take the best and have any material impact on the game. If we drop Jack into the middle for more time then we will impact our goalscoring ability. If we had another power forward then I think more people would advocate this move, but at this point in time it can only happen sparingly as Dimma has used him as we would be useless in the F50 without Jack in there as our other power forwards (TV and Griffiths) have barely shown that much impact and certainly have not shown anywhere that they could impact whilst taking the best defender.

 

[Carter]

He can't play any significant time in the middle as there is no-one else in the F50 that would be any good against their best defender. TV has hardly set the world alight yet, he's looked good in patches, but thats all been on the 2nd defender. He's yet to show anything to suggest he could take the best and have any material impact on the game. If we drop Jack into the middle for more time then we will impact our goalscoring ability. If we had another power forward then I think more people would advocate this move, but at this point in time it can only happen sparingly as Dimma has used him as we would be useless in the F50 without Jack in there as our other power forwards (TV and Griffiths) have barely shown that much impact and certainly have not shown anywhere that they could impact whilst taking the best defender.

Martin Griffiths Lennon
Deledio Vickery McBean

 

[mrposhman]

Martin Griffiths Lennon
Deledio Vickery McBean

So who takes the best defender and will they still impact the game at all? Assuming you are saying TV? He would be useless against the best defender, his contested marking is awful for such a big strong fella.

 

[Bullarto Tiger]

Riewoldt is, in my opinion, the most skilled and innovative player at RFC.
He has the capacity to be influential in almost any part of the ground.
And while I would prefer him to be the major forward I can see the merit in playing him in bursts through the midfield where I do believe he could be rather influential at times.

 

[mrposhman]

Riewoldt is, in my opinion, the most skilled and innovative player at RFC.
He has the capacity to be influential in almost any part of the ground.
And while I would prefer him to be the major forward I can see the merit in playing him in bursts through the midfield where I do believe he could be rather influential at times.

I would tend to agree and he is played in small bursts, but our problem in moving Jack further up the ground more often is we would probably be robbing Peter to pay Paul as we just don't have another dominant marking forward to play in the F50 when he is up the ground. Now if Reece McKenzie could come along quickly then we may have an option.

 

[zgod]

Give Jack a license to roam. He is without doubt the best footballing brain at the club.
I remember in dimmas first year Lade gave an interview and said they considered moving Jack to CHB just because he was the only player who fully grasped the game plan. Jack is a freak and if he wasn't a strawberry blonde tiger who wears his heart on his sleeve he would be in the top echelon of players.
I agree with Carter i would love to see him get creative in the centre.

 

[Leysy Days]

You do realise that this already goes on?? There were numerous times last year where Jack was started in the centre bounce.

Sorry Posh, you know your footy but that is just not correct.

Even the midfield coach (Lade) is on record as welcoming Reiwoldt up the ground so long as it's not at stoppages....WWTTTFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!

He rarely goes in there. 0.4 clearances and only 5 contested possessions per match for someone so good in close.

Roughead goes at 3 and 9 respectively, goals per game were almost identical last year.

Joke considering Jack is the better footballer. The difference is the innovation of the respective coaches ILHO.

 

[Tames]

This from RFC. http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2015-09-07/riewoldt-tops-titus

We would love a few of him, but lets leave him forward to take the best defender each week and still do his job.

 

[Tigers of Old]

This would certainly give McBean the best chance to ply his wares Carts as Jack up forward is currently the player keeping him out of the side IMO.
That said it's something I think should only happen sporadically. Jack is a proven and consistent goal kicker. He's shown some abilities on ball but the question remains where is he most effective or likely to beat his opponents.
Unless others can prove that they can fill the void he'll leave then he remains mostly i50 for mine.

 

[joegarra]

I'd prefer we played a six man forward line and give Jack a chance one on one.We need to score more goals!

 

[achillesjones]

Jack is not a midfielder. He would be exploited by elite midfielders as being slow to defend. Opposing coaches would place burst midfielders on him to exploit this. Jack is one of our best players, and one of the smartest, but that doesn't give him the equipment to play this role. In essence you take away a player who strikes fear in opposing coaches and place him in arose where he would be average at best. If it is to give Maric support, same problem ... He is average at best in a ruck duel. Tiger supporters would be very upset with this move as seeing Jack on the forward line weaving his magic is one of the features of our game plan that makes us win more than we lose. It also gets me to the G on those wintry cold days.

No thanks.

 

[Sintiger]

Jack is just too slow to be playing in the middle. He can push up the ground as a forward because he uses his smarts and long leads to create space for himself but his leg speed is just not up to an on ball role imo.

 

[Tigertough1974]

Jack is not a midfielder. He would be exploited by elite midfielders as being slow to defend. Opposing coaches would place burst midfielders on him to exploit this. Jack is one of our best players, and one of the smartest, but that doesn't give him the equipment to play this role. In essence you take away a player who strikes fear in opposing coaches and place him in arose where he would be average at best. If it is to give Maric support, same problem ... He is average at best in a ruck duel. Tiger supporters would be very upset with this move as seeing Jack on the forward line weaving his magic is one of the features of our game plan that makes us win more than we lose. It also gets me to the G on those wintry cold days.

No thanks.

Absolutely agree. Also for Leysy he is no where near the as versatile as Roughy, doesn't have explosive bulk, cant ruck etc etc... Im not riding Jack as i see him as a better forward and an amazing one at that, 6 x 50+ is a bloody good feat, leave the man where he is best played, by all means pinch hit occasionally if the coaches want a different angle, but agree with above the best Mids would expose his lack of pace and smarts as an inside or outside mid Jack is not...

Remember a year or two back Carts was on his high horse about Rancey in the middle... I guess the u11s season cant come quick enough for the armchair coaches putting professionals to the sword and exposing them in all areas... :rofl bit harsh but also fair!

 

[AngryAnt]

Against the case for putting Jack into the middle is the end of the sub rule and far fewer rotations. This should result in more traditional stay at home forward style play and less congestion around the ball with players not able to rotate on and off so much so it will be harder for tireder players to make stoppages so frequently.

Forwards won't have to run up to the wings so much so we should see more 1 on one forward/back battles in the forward fifty. This might mean that Jack might put on more bulk and play more as a power forward if Dimma etc determine that's his role. Be interesting to see if this is case.

Some coaches think we might see a return to the flood defence as a consequence in some games.

 

[Carter]

Absolutely agree. Also for Leysy he is no where near the as versatile as Roughy, doesn't have explosive bulk, cant ruck etc etc... Im not riding Jack as i see him as a better forward and an amazing one at that, 6 x 50+ is a bloody good feat, leave the man where he is best played, by all means pinch hit occasionally if the coaches want a different angle, but agree with above the best Mids would expose his lack of pace and smarts as an inside or outside mid Jack is not...

Remember a year or two back Carts was on his high horse about Rancey in the middle... I guess the u11s season cant come quick enough for the armchair coaches putting professionals to the sword and exposing them in all areas... :rofl bit harsh but also fair!

Last I checked Alex and Jack were different players.

But carry on, don't let that stop you ;D

 

[Carter]

This would certainly give McBean the best chance to ply his wares Carts as Jack up forward is currently the player keeping him out of the side IMO.

Indeed, although I think they could wax together under a less jittery coach.