Indigenous Voice Yes or No?

[AngryAnt]

In fairness to Albo ,Governments of all parties have been throwing money around for years .

Tony Abbott made sure he did the regular PR trips with photo shoots to remote communities while stripping away 500 million from real indigenous support programs.

Meanwhile our indigenous affairs minister (who is indigenous) has announced a significant package of real world programs to benefit indigenous kids, women and men which you and Tiga see as a bad thing - but hang on, I thought you were concerned with the real world and not just symbolic gestures like The Voice? And that somehow The Voice prevents other things from being done?

Nice to see you proved wrong on both counts.

 

[Baloo]

Nice to see you proved wrong on both counts.

The Vic State Elections 22 thread would prove this is the norm.

 

[bengal tigers]

In fairness to Tony Abbott he stripped a lot of funding away.
Seriously though if you want to see improvements in the standard of living for Indigenous Australians you cannot complain about funding.
If people dont have housing it reduces the likelihood of kids coming into contact with violence escalates. if people dont have safe water health suffers, meaning people have to travel into regional centres, where kids cant access schooling whilst their health needs are being met, it means people have freer access to alcohol, it means they may have to stay with relatives etc increasing overcrowding.

If only there was a way to have a consistent body advising different governments on policies that effect Aboriginal Australians- perhaps we wouldnt have to keep "throwing money around" because things that worked would continue through changes of government and things that dont work wont be repeated every change of government.

I do really think you mean well, but i suggest you have a lot to learn of the issues facing Indigenous Australians, particularly those in remote areas.

I respect your views Brodders ,and their not sniping .
Billions are spent each year on indigenous people be that through indigenous housing ,social security payments ,medicare ,indigenous programs,etc etc etc .
A lot of the life style problems are of their own doing ,they choose to live in remote areas that have little access to basic services .
I live 30 minutes from Ballarat l have access to electricity ,town water ,but a friend of mine who lives 3kms away doesn't ,he has to use tanks ,and is on solar ,we have a 30 minute drive to medical services ,the closest school is about 20 minutes away ,and lm quite sure their are a lot of non indigenous who have to travel a lot further than me.
At the end of the day though that's my choice ,the stats for the whole of Australia for health ,is that people who live in rural and remote have lower life expectancy.

Some of these camps are hours away from services ,again that's their choice,but is it being realistic to expect Governments to keep funding these camps ,IF these camps can't produce any sort of business ,or better still a safe environment to live.
Maybe they should build community camps closer to access more services and, to receive the medical help they need,and to be closer to better education .

NT brought back the Alcohol laws ,but that hasn't stopped Child abuse and domestic violence in the past.

Anyway the NIAA are suppose to be working with the indigenous and implementing programs ,as well as talking with the appropriate governments .

Who we are | NIAA

The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities.

www.niaa.gov.au

 

[bengal tigers]

Tony Abbott made sure he did the regular PR trips with photo shoots to remote communities while stripping away 500 million from real indigenous support programs.

Meanwhile our indigenous affairs minister (who is indigenous) has announced a significant package of real world programs to benefit indigenous kids, women and men which you and Tiga see as a bad thing - but hang on, I thought you were concerned with the real world and not just symbolic gestures like The Voice? And that somehow The Voice prevents other things from being done?

Nice to see you proved wrong on both counts.

Um were did l say it was a bad thing .
All l said was Governments of all parties have been throwing money around for years ,and yet the social problems are still there.
Albo's Labor are not the first party to spend large amounts on indigenous programs ,if you want to get political,which is your agenda.

 

[tigerman]

I can't see why so many Australians are against the Voice to Parliament. It's long overdue, and has been a long time coming.

What key moments in history preceded the Uluru Statement from The Heart?​

• 1937 - Yorta Yorta elder William Cooper collected 1800 signatures to petition King George VI for Aboriginal representation in the federal Parliament.
• 1938 - The Aboriginal Progressive Association holds a "Day of Mourning" in Sydney to protest the "callous" treatment of Aboriginal Australians and demand full citizen status and equality.
• 1958 - Aboriginal lobby groups form the Federal Council for Aboriginal Advancement, start a 10-year campaign to change the constitution.
• 1962- Indigenous peoples gain the vote in Commonwealth elections.
• 1963 - The Yirrkala Bark Petitions, a series of petitions from the Yolngu people to the Commonwealth government, asserted that the Yolngu people owned the land and protested the Commonwealth's granting of mining rights to Nabalco of land excised from the Arnhem Aboriginal Land reserve.
• 1965 - Aboriginal or (Arrente and Kalkadoon) student Charles Perkins leads freedom rides through towns in north-western NSW to expose discrimination against Aboriginal peoples.
• 1967 – More than 90 percent of Australians vote "yes" in a referendum that allows the federal government to make laws for Aboriginal people and enables their inclusion in the national census.
• 1972 - The Aboriginal Tent Embassy in Canberra begins in protest against the Liberal party's policy on land rights.
• 1972 – 1000 Aboriginal people sign the Larrakia Petition calling for land rights, and it is posted to Queen Elizabeth.
• 1979 - The National Aboriginal Conference, established in 1973, resolves a treaty that should be made between the government and Indigenous peoples. The word "Makarrata" is used for the first time.
• 1988 - A 1.2-metre-square sheet of wood with the Barunga Statement, the aspirations of Indigenous Australians, is presented to PM Bob Hawke, who called to negotiate a treaty.
• 1990 – Creation of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC) to represent Indigenous peoples and its members are chosen by Indigenous peoples.
• 1991 – Report of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. It recommends a formal process of reconciliation between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia.
• 1992 - The High Court's Mabo decision rejects 'terra nullius' and recognises the existence of native title.
• 1995 – The report of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC) says constitutional reform is a priority.
• 1999 - Prime Minister John Howard put to the Australian people a preamble to the constitution that included recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples, without consulting them, and hence rejected.
• 2000 - A gathering of Indigenous people present prime minister John Howard and the Governor-General with a " 250,000 people cross the Sydney Harbour Bridge to support the “Roadmap for Reconciliation" a document a gathering of Indigenous peoples presented to then-Prime Minister John Howard.
• 2005 - ATSIC is abolished following corruption investigations.
• 2007 - PM Howard committed to holding a referendum to recognise Indigenous Peoples in the first hundred days of what would have been his fifth term in office, but he lost the federal election to Labor’s Kevin Rudd.
• 2008 - Labor Prime minister Kevin Rudd says "Sorry" to the Stolen Generations.
• 2008 – Yolngu and Bininj Leaders’ Statement of Intent.
• 2010 - Prime minister Julia Gillard announces referendum plans for the constitutional acknowledgment of Indigenous Australians.
• 2012 – Expert Panel on the Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the Australian Constitution hands its report to the Prime Minister.
• 2013 - The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples Recognition Act received Royal Assent on 27 March 2013 and came into effect on 28 March 2013.
• 2013 - Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples established.
• 2014 - Final Report of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Act of Recognition Review Panel (Anderson Review).
• 2014 - Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples Interim report (15 July 2014) and Progress Report (October 2014).
• 2015 - Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples Final report (31 January 2015).
• 2015 – Forty Indigenous leaders meet with Prime Minister Abbott and Opposition Leader Bill Shorten at Kirribilli House to request a new process to consult Indigenous communities. Indigenous leaders issue the Kirribilli Statement stating symbolism and minimalist reform will not be acceptable.
• 2015 - The Referendum Council is appointed by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Labor leader Bill Shorten to start walking towards a referendum.
• 2017 – May 26th, 2017 Uluru Statement from the Heart issued to the Australian people.
• 2017 – Referendum Council hands its report to Malcolm Turnbull.
• 2017 – Joint Select Committee established to review the Uluru Statement from the Heart.
• 2018 – Joint Select Committee concludes there is no other option on the table. Recommends design of Voice first before considering legal form.
• 2020 – Minister Wyatt announces the establishment of a Voice design committee.

Take the time to read all of the linked article.

The journey to the Uluru Statement from the Heart

Written as an invitation to the Australian people, the Uluru Statement from the Heart aims to bring Australians together to recognise Indigenous Australians in the Constitution.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Sintiger]

A lot of the life style problems are of their own doing ,they choose to live in remote areas that have little access to basic services .

Bengal, I think there is a problem with this language

Many indigenous people don't "choose" to live in remote areas, they live there because that is their land, it is their culture and it is part of who they are. So many problems over our history have been caused by removing the indigenous people from their land. They talk about a connection to country, for many of them that connection is a key part of their identity.

We whities have trouble understanding this because we don't have this connection, if I had it I would be living in the west of Ireland. That doesn't mean it is not real.

 

[Brodders17]

I respect your views Brodders ,and their not sniping .
Billions are spent each year on indigenous people be that through indigenous housing ,social security payments ,medicare ,indigenous programs,etc etc etc .
A lot of the life style problems are of their own doing ,they choose to live in remote areas that have little access to basic services .
I live 30 minutes from Ballarat l have access to electricity ,town water ,but a friend of mine who lives 3kms away doesn't ,he has to use tanks ,and is on solar ,we have a 30 minute drive to medical services ,the closest school is about 20 minutes away ,and lm quite sure their are a lot of non indigenous who have to travel a lot further than me.
At the end of the day though that's my choice ,the stats for the whole of Australia for health ,is that people who live in rural and remote have lower life expectancy.

Some of these camps are hours away from services ,again that's their choice,but is it being realistic to expect Governments to keep funding these camps ,IF these camps can't produce any sort of business ,or better still a safe environment to live.
Maybe they should build community camps closer to access more services and, to receive the medical help they need,and to be closer to better education .

NT brought back the Alcohol laws ,but that hasn't stopped Child abuse and domestic violence in the past.

Anyway the NIAA are suppose to be working with the indigenous and implementing programs ,as well as talking with the appropriate governments .

Who we are | NIAA

The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities.

www.niaa.gov.au

do you have any idea of the health stats, the abuse stats, the education stats, the alcohol and other drugs stat or the crime stats for example for Indigenous people living in Alice Springs as opposed to those living in Yuendumu?

 

[bengal tigers]

do you have any idea of the health stats, the abuse stats, the education stats, the alcohol and other drugs stat or the crime stats for example for Indigenous people living in Alice Springs as opposed to those living in Yuendumu?

I haven't got time at the moment for looking at stats ,but have a look at this dated 2018.

https://www.news.com.au/national/the-fight-to-protect-indigenous-children-from-abuse-and-neglect/news-story/5073986bb478b09cb9d7e8a42cd5bfe2

 

[AngryAnt]

Um were did l say it was a bad thing .
All l said was Governments of all parties have been throwing money around for years ,and yet the social problems are still there.
Albo's Labor are not the first party to spend large amounts on indigenous programs ,if you want to get political,which is your agenda.

Your inference is pretty clear as are your solutions.

No Voice.
Cut spending.
Force people away from their traditional lands and communities because their problems there are "of their own doing".

Another white man who begrudges indigenous people access to their traditional lands, proposes borderline genocidal solutions which have been tried and failed before, and yet claims he is "not political".

 

[Brodders17]

I haven't got time at the moment for looking at stats ,but have a look at this dated 2018.

https://www.news.com.au/national/the-fight-to-protect-indigenous-children-from-abuse-and-neglect/news-story/5073986bb478b09cb9d7e8a42cd5bfe2

You do realise that article is about Alice Springs? Where you are suggesting people from remote communities should live?

Paul Toohey used to write for the Australian and wrote a lot on Indigenous issues. He wasnt terrible but all his articles come from the same angle and push lines like- "the abuse wasnt that bad" or claim that Indigenous organisations dont want men to take responsibilities for their behaviour. yes, there are some men in positions of power that should not be, but that does not mean those Indigenous organisations dont speak up about mens behaviour. and an organisation is able to proportion blame to the police, or the police minister, in one statement while also putting responsibility on perpetrators

 

[bengal tigers]

Your inference is pretty clear as are your solutions.

No Voice.
Cut spending.
Force people away from their traditional lands and communities because their problems there are "of their own doing".

Another white man who begrudges indigenous people access to their traditional lands, proposes borderline genocidal solutions which have been tried and failed before, and yet claims he is "not political".

Mate you really only see what you want to see.
What a over reaction.
You are so full of *smile*

BTW siouxsie is looking for you ,she needs you for the reunion .

 

[bengal tigers]

You do realise that article is about Alice Springs? Where you are suggesting people from remote communities should live?

Paul Toohey used to write for the Australian and wrote a lot on Indigenous issues. He wasnt terrible but all his articles come from the same angle and push lines like- "the abuse wasnt that bad" or claim that Indigenous organisations dont want men to take responsibilities for their behaviour. yes, there are some men in positions of power that should not be, but that does not mean those Indigenous organisations dont speak up about mens behaviour. and an organisation is able to proportion blame to the police, or the police minister, in one statement while also putting responsibility on perpetrators

What l got out of that article .
1 The Alcohol bans don't go far enough,but l doubt they could implement tougher laws .
2 Well according to Jacinta Price they have a world class health facilities for all.
3.Children don't seem to be made to go to school.,so the onus should come back onto the parents,how on earth do you manage to do that.
4.I would hate to be a cop in those areas,it would be tough mentally .but obviously the deterrents are not tough enough.
5.How the *smile* are they going to stop child abuse in these areas ,when indigenous people don't speak out ,when society turn a blind eye,when Governments are too *smile* scared to do any tough .

 

[AngryAnt]

Mate you really only see what you want to see.
What a over reaction.
You are so full of *smile*

BTW siouxsie is looking for you ,she needs you for the reunion .

Bengal I just read what you wrote and quoted it back to you - all those things are things that you and presumably stand by, unless you want to go back to pretending you only care about the kids.

SATB were a good band but don't really get the intention of the reference.

 

[shad]

Great post. But the fact that you had to write it shows what a low level some of the posters here are operating at. Hats off to all of you that are trying to refute the rubbish that is being posted on here by some.

 

[Tigaman]

Great post. But the fact that you had to write it shows what a low level some of the posters here are operating at. Hats off to all of you that are trying to refute the rubbish that is being posted on here by some.

Hats off to you. This thread should never been allowed on PRE. Although I have had my pennies worth the subject is a Letters to Editor subject. To sensitive an issue mainly because it is divisive & that is what we do not want in this country. how mnay people

 

[bengal tigers]

Your inference is pretty clear as are your solutions.

No Voice.
Cut spending.
Force people away from their traditional lands and communities because their problems there are "of their own doing".

Another white man who begrudges indigenous people access to their traditional lands, proposes borderline genocidal solutions which have been tried and failed before, and yet claims he is "not political".

Bengal I just read what you wrote and quoted it back to you - all those things are things that you and presumably stand by, unless you want to go back to pretending you only care about the kids.

SATB were a good band but don't really get the intention of the reference.

No Voice ,there is nothing written in writing to show the advantages and disadvantages of having it.
A lot indigenous people are against it,,they don't see were it helps the serious issues they have,and think the money being spent on the voice,should be directed in helping solve the serious issues .
SO YES YOU GOT THAT RIGHT,I DID SAY NO TO THE VOICE.
And that is my choice .NOT YOURS. or any political party.

Cut spending ,l never said that,but maybe some of the spending goes towards fixing the serious issues,otherwise you are going around in circles.
SO YOU GOT THAT WRONG.

Yes lets go into these camps with guns drawn ,and force them out of their camps
My idea was to relocate a lot of these camps closer to social services ,but of course you misinterpreted what l wrote ,and replied with a mass over reaction .
SO WRONG AGAIN

As for the reference about SATB,think about it.
Anyway this is my final post for a while on this subject,l have made my point ,and theirs only so many times you can bang your head against the wall.

Closing the Gap

Dr John Gardiner-Garden, Social Policy Key issue This article looks at the origins, objectives and effectiveness of the Closing the Gap initiative. What is ‘Closing the Gap’? In his Social justice re

www.aph.gov.au

Home page | NIAA

The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities. We implement the Australian Governments’ priorities and support the Minister for Indigenous Australians.

www.niaa.gov.au

 

[tommystigers]

The Voice waste of Tax payers money. Whilst we spin it around our heads our real problems are ignored.. Treaty why as they were not conquered but Settled. Should be thank full that they now live with Freedom of Speech not like Russia, Iran, Japanese ,China & North Korea. Reconciliation dreamtime. If they want reconciliation there fore for eg they open up Ayres Rock for climbing again. Will they ? No. What you have is an educated lot of mixed race pushing there barrow & do any of them recognise there White Heritage. Prime example footballer called an Ape then went ballistic. Can you imagine this ex footballers kids coming home from a school zoo excursion & say to Daddy " the apes were huge. ". Do you think Daddy would need a triple 000 because he had a melt down over it. Doubt it. Real world is that the genuine hard working Oz has to put up with this crap.

What in the actual hell are you writing here?

Waste of taxpayers money. Ok. I understand that you are unhappy about spending money on something you deem as unreasonable. Legit reason to oppose something.

But then it descends into some bizarre conglomeration of toxic redneck mind spew. Not conquered but settled. Yikes. Thankful they live with freedom of speech? Yer havin' a larf mate. I can't even deal with the rest of your meth addled trump supporter mental acuity.

If you're genuine hardworking Oz then the sooner China invades the better. I'm calling troll.

 

[Tigaman]

What in the actual hell are you writing here?

Waste of taxpayers money. Ok. I understand that you are unhappy about spending money on something you deem as unreasonable. Legit reason to oppose something.

But then it descends into some bizarre conglomeration of toxic redneck mind spew. Not conquered but settled. Yikes. Thankful they live with freedom of speech? Yer havin' a larf mate. I can't even deal with the rest of your meth addled trump supporter mental acuity.

If you're genuine hardworking Oz then the sooner China invades the better. I'm calling troll.

LoL. Wots troll's number so I can call him too.

 

[tigersnake]

All l said was Governments of all parties have been throwing money around for years ,and yet the social problems are still there.

This 'throwing money around for years' is a myth that exposed on many levels once you interrogate it.

Firstly, relative to what? Government's 'throw money around' at a lot of things. A lot of money? How much? what is a lot of money? If you care to look, a lot of the so-called 'fortunes thrown around' actually aren't when compared to other sectors, and are often just normal regular expenditure, or under that.
Second, the money that does get 'thrown around' is thrown around for the most part without talking to black people before they throw it around, hence the voice, gettit?
Third, the vast majority of money that is 'thrown around' actually goes in to the pockets of white people, consultants, service providers, government departments who spend $100K to hold a meeting etc.
Fourth, points 2 and 3 are closely related, and are strong arguments FOR a voice.

 

[Tigaman]

I would like some clarity instead of Yes/No to a Voice in the Constitutsion eg Who is going to select who makes up the Voice ?. How many in The Voice ?. Each State represented in The Voice ?etc etc.