Indigenous History Debate

[AngryAnt]

You've forgotten the disarray the Liberals were in when Turnbull was toppled? And the unlosable election?

Dude, how you interpret my comments which were strictly about Abbott and Turnbull with regards to Morrison is up to you and your own fevered imagination. Go for your life.

Neither Abbott nor Turnbull were good or effective PMs, take that as you will.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Dude, how you interpret my comments which were strictly about Abbott and Turnbull with regards to Morrison is up to you and your own fevered imagination. Go for your life.

I said "Knocking Turnbull on the head has worked wonders for the Liberals".

You replied "Strange interpretation."

I think you're the one who is off beam.

 

[AngryAnt]

I said "Knocking Turnbull on the head has worked wonders for the Liberals".

You replied "Strange interpretation."

I think you're the one who is off beam.

I was responding to the "Morrison extreme' part which was your direct question to me.

Move on dude, this is really boring.

 

[Sintiger]

It was formed from the ashes of the United Australia Party which was staunchly conservative. Not in my lifetime can I recall it being referred to as "centrist".

Then you haven’t been listening.

The liberal party was formed for the centre, for those people not of the rich or aristocratic class or those who were given the protections of the Trade union movement, although Menzies was certainly not anti trade union. His concern was communist infiltration of the Trade union movement which was real in the post war period.

It’s principles were best explained by the famous “forgotten people” speech of Robert Menzies.

He would be turning in his grave at what the Liberal party has become.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It’s principles were best explained by the famous “forgotten people” speech of Robert Menzies.

He would be turning in his grave at what the Liberal party has become.

forgotten people = quiet Australians?

 

[AngryAnt]

Labor has always been centre-left, the Libs have always been centre-right. This is common knowledge.

 

[Sintiger]

forgotten people = quiet Australians?

Nope. Different context and I know how important context is to you.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Nope. Different context and I know how important context is to you.

"The speech dismissed class warfare in Australia and called out to the 'forgotten' Australians, the middle class, the strivers, the planners, and the ambitious ones. All too often the ones ignored by governments."

https://www.timnicholls.com.au/forgotten_people

Sounds awfully similar to "quiet Australians" to me.

 

[Brodders17]

"The speech dismissed class warfare in Australia and called out to the 'forgotten' Australians, the middle class, the strivers, the planners, and the ambitious ones. All too often the ones ignored by governments."

https://www.timnicholls.com.au/forgotten_people

Sounds awfully similar to "quiet Australians" to me.

not the "overcomers"?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

not the "overcomers"?

I've always seen the fundamental difference between right and left as practicality v idealism, or doers v dreamers if you will. In practice it seems to work best with the right in control and the left providing moral counterbalance.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Didn’t this thread get started by being split off the original thread because it got off track from the original topic?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Didn’t this thread get started by being split off the original thread because it got off track from the original topic?

It seemed like a licence to warble.

Now... Aboriginal history. Where is it written down?

 

[Brodders17]

Didn’t this thread get started by being split off the original thread because it got off track from the original topic?

yes, i was tricked into posting in this thread when I was doign so well resisting the urge responding to those requiring some moral counterbalance..

 

[Sintiger]

"The speech dismissed class warfare in Australia and called out to the 'forgotten' Australians, the middle class, the strivers, the planners, and the ambitious ones. All too often the ones ignored by governments."

https://www.timnicholls.com.au/forgotten_people

Sounds awfully similar to "quiet Australians" to me.

Except it was 70 years apart.

Historical context was totally different but the words are nearly the same so must be the same

Of course the liberal party of today mouths the words about the quiet Australians and then proceeds to ignore them from a policy point of view.

 

[kyuss]

edit: misquote

 

[kyuss]

Sorry I saw Tony Abbots name mentioned and couldn't help myself. What an absolute stain of a human being.

 

[kyuss]

"You're not saying anything, Tony?".

I'll give him his dues, as a weirdo he is world class. How's the head wobble?

Unbelievable, and he was the leader of our country. Anyone who voted for the coalition that election should be ashamed of themselves.
I get everyone has different opinions, but seriously, Tony *smile* Abbott??????

 

[AngryAnt]

Tones will be go down as an oddity of a PM - no-one will remember what he did once elected. He really had no major policy achievements. Once he got into government he didn't have a clue what to do.

 

[glantone]

There is a massive difference between accepting personal responsibility and acknowledgement and acceptance of history. Many don’t recognise that difference and combine the two.
If I hit someone I have to accept a personal responsibility for hitting someone but that is not what most indigenous leaders want. They want all Australians to accept the history of what this country did to its indigenous people, to acknowledge it and to teach it.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me but all of us should also acknowledge what that history means to them, how for many of them and their families it is also a lived history and what their culture means especially in relation to the connection to land.

Agree. The factual history of australia’s indigenous peoples needs to be taught warts and all as a mandatory subject at school, years 1 -12 perhaps. To do that, teachers would first need to be taught the factual history of australia’s indigenous peoples warts and all and then how to deliver it. Huge and painful challenge but probably a necessary one.

 

[glantone]

Default guilt by way of skin colour is an interesting concept.

Most immigrants have done pretty well in Australia including Asians and people of colour. Should they feel some level of guilt having so successfully taken advantage of a system that has been so racist towards the indigenous? Or does their ethnicity work as a ‘guilt free pass’ because they have no genetic connections to the early settlers? When talking of guilt the focus always seems to be on white Australians, … when are the Chinese community going to say ‘sorry’ for being so damned successful?

If I’m of white european origins who came to Australia in the 70s should I feel a sense of guilt for past crimes against the indigenous communities immediately after my swearing-in ceremony or is there a honeymoon period of say 25-30 years before I should feel bad about being white? Anyone know is there a guilt start/cut off date?

White Australians who have failed to flourish, those from the under classes who have fallen through the safety net and who are living horrible lives void of opportunities, should they share the same level of guilt of prosperous white Australians or is their level of guilt somehow diminished by their generational poverty?

Someone needs to create a user friendly guilt matrix : ) ….