Has Hardwick had the worst start to a coaching career?

[ZeroGame]

On your theory Brad Scott is an absolute goose for being 3-3 after six games. ??? ???

The teams they've beaten haven't been great sides

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Don't expect it will. FMPOV he's sheltered from criticism this year and next.

This was ALWAYS going to be an extremely tough year & I expected us to cop some absolute floggings yet was howled down for my negativity in the pre season.

Not you Punx but it seems that there are plenty of disappointed folks who thought Dimma would just come in and wave the magic brush and it would all be better.
Well *smile* that. There are no Messiahs. This road to recovery is hard and painful and if he didn't know already, Dimma is right now discovering just how hard it will be.

I honestly believe this year will be the worst yet, we just don't have the quality in the list and are still bottoming out.
No way know I saw us competitive this year against the likes of the Cats with 14 fresh faces in the side. Raw kids cannot be expected to win games of football against quality, seasoned opposition.
You want somewhat competitive? Hang on to Bowden, Brown, Johnson & co. for another year and prolong what was inevitable. :spin
The broom will no doubt again be put through the place again come year's end as it should be. A couple of vets & a lot of garbage remains.

We are paying BIG for Wallet's mistakes & in no way should that be a reflection on Hardwick.
Thankfully I believe he genuinely has the support of an administration that will not be reactionary, no matter how much sh!t is thrown his way for the next couple of seasons.

However if we are still in this position in 2012 then I genuinely fear for our club because some supporters will start hauling out the manure trucks again, if not well before.

Agree with all that. As many of us have stated in other threads, this is a terrible list he has inherited, and not even the big guy upstairs could lead this motley crew to victories at this early stage.

I just hope to god that for once:

1. We actually have drafted a good group of kids (hard to tell at this stage, apart from a couple of obvious ones) and ill continue to do so; and

2. We *smile* develop them into good AFL footballers for once.

If we don't, then it wont matter how good a coach Dimma is.

 

[ROLLS ROYCE]

The teams they've beaten haven't been great sides

Mate i will be happy to beat any side in 2010...great, ordinary, off day or just woeful....a win will still b a in.....who that the roos beat would we start even remotley a chance against?

 

[rockstar_tiger]

If I was coach of Richmond for the next 3 years or any bottom of the ladder team the last thing l would want in my first season is 7, 8, 9 or 10 wins.
l would manipulate my team selections week by week ,by way of harsh disciplinary action or "resting" key players to ensure that l got the most out of the drafts to give me the most wins l could get in my 3rd year.

Me too

Olympians spend 4 years training for their final series.

As an elite sportsman, in a coaching role, I would sacrifice my impulsive winning hunger for the same 4-year goal of being the absolute best, and in turn not allowing myself to become content with winning 50% of my games and being middle of the road (3 wins 3 losses, anyone?)

 

[glorydaysareback]

Cant beleive all the angst from some. Blind Freddy can see what is hppening at RFC. Hardwick is spot on in what he is doing and it will take at least three years. Thats the time you need to turnover a full list of 44 for a young list of between 18 and 28 yo players getting 50 to 100 games expereince under their belt.

You can only clear so much deadwood a year. Dimma has done a third in his first year, will do so again in the two years and commencing in 2013 and probably not before, we will have a list of 23 to 28 yo's with the 100 games expereince to make us competitive once more. More importanly a third of that list should be younger kids coming through, this time hopefully with better draft picks and selections that will address deficiences such as we have currently in the ruck and key forwards.

As soon as Richo retired we were in trouble this year. No key forward, the loss of our best contested mark, and most dangerous player and our most obvious target with nobody to replace him.

I hope the RFC committee, coaches and supporters have the patience of Jobe cos we are in for a rough ride for 2 more years IMO. In that time though we will see the emergence of the next Richmond finals team. Tough ask as we have endured so much already. But we have to bottom right out before the "J Curve" kicks in.

I truly beleive we have a quality coach here who is making some incredibly tough decisions despite their potential ramifications in the short term. An example of this was his decision to rest Dustin Martin and Trent Cochin today. He could have easily picked them but is looking out for their long term development and welfare.

My hope is we dont chew him up before he finishes the job.

 

[tigerinthetank2]

Gee, i am not a patient man but the Dimma love here is starting to wear thin. Do we have the time to devote two years of love to these pathetic efforts from an AFL list in the guise of a rebuilding mode.


Talk young kids talk, dons, roos, dees, eagles, none are as bad as us.

At the moment we r truly pathetic.

Yep.
What about the kick ins to contests. :
The unpredictability of the player gaining possesion and the first option , is it a kick or a handball, players dont even know.
Why play Dea ? Clearly not up to it.
Either is Rance.
Lids down back :
Farmer up forward :
Who is to blame for the above ?? The coaches

 

[tigerinthetank2]

Cant beleive all the angst from some. Blind Freddy can see what is hppening at RFC. Hardwick is spot on in what he is doing and it will take at least three years. Thats the time you need to turnover a full list of 44 for a young list of between 18 and 25 yo players getting 50 to 100 games expereince under their belt.

You can only clear so much deadwood a year. Dimma has done a third in first year, will do again in the two years and commencing in 2013 and probably not before we will have a list of 23 to 28 yo's with the 100 games expereince to make us competitive once more. More importanly a third of that list should be younger kids coming through, this time hopefully with better draft picks and selctions that will address defficiences such as we have currently in the ruck and key forwards.

As soo as Richo retired we were in trouble this year. No key forward, the loss of our best contested mark, most dangerous player and most obvious target with nobody to replace him.

I hope RFC committee, coaches and supporters have the patience of Jobe cos we are in for a rough ride for 2 more years IMO. In that time though we will see th emergence of the next Richmond finals team. Tough ask as we have endured so much already. But we have to bottom riht out before the "J Curve" kicks in.

I truly beleive we have a quality coach here who is making some incredibly tough decisions despite their potential ramifications in the short term. An example of this was his decsion to rest Dustin Martin and Trent Cochin today. He could have easily picked them but is looking out for their long term development and welfare.

My hope is we dont chew him up before he finishes the job.

What if Hardwick cant coach ??? Waste of 3 years ??
Jury is out on him.
No predictablity with in the group.
Kicks ins are terrible.
Players played out of position
Players gone backwards from last year, noticable Rance he is now hopless

 

[rinso17]

I would think as a professional sportsman u would want to win at all costs.

On your theory Brad Scott is an absolute goose for being 3-3 after six games. ??? ???

As a professional coach thats how l ( repeat l ) would maximize my options. Trying to win with a list like that is futile. Sure scratch out a win were possible to please the punters but once you go past 5 wins its absolutly counter productive to ones goals of being a career coach.
The first 2 seasons of a 3 year deal should be approached like a preseason to your third year. Your third year should be your application for subsiquent contracts.

 

[boysfromtheG]

My biggest concern is that Hardwick has given the RFC players a get out jail free card by continually stating to the media that we are rebuilding, there will be pain and massive losses. It has almost come to the point where once the players feels it gets to hard during the game they go into a 'Oh well we are expected to lose and are a rebuilding side' mentality and don't bother.

I believe he should have said we are rebuilding but every single player on the list is playing for the future, no matter what age. Whether it be 1st or 10th year.

You give a team with a weak mentality any sort of excuse and they will use it. Some of the defensive efforts and 1%ers i have seen thus far have been nothing short of disgraceful. It seems they choose when they want to go hard and when they want to cruise along. Unfortunately at the moment it is too much of the latter. Hoping that things are very different behind closed doors but from what i have seen so far it doesn't suggest that. Everytime i watch the RFC this year i could swear i was having deja vu of the Fitzroy side in its last year!!

Excellent post!
Sure we are rebuilding, however, the players need some heat applied to them.
We should play each game with the view to win and when we lose we should be very disappointed and not use the "rebuilding" excuse in public.

 

[glorydaysareback]

What if Hardwick cant coach ??? Waste of 3 years ??
Jury is out on him.
No predictablity with in the group.
Kicks ins are terrible.
Players played out of position
Players gone backwards from last year, noticable Rance he is now hopless

Well lets sack him after a year and start rebuilding all over again. There's a theory, we would continually be where we are now. Sometimes you just have to back your man. The job at RFC isn't a quick fix for any coach. The list he has started with is probably thepoorest on record for any coach commencing a career, outside the one KB had in the late 80's early 90's.

With any new coach, new playing structure and turnover of personnel there will be adjustments for everybody players as well. So obviously some players will flourish and some wont. Just the nature of the business.

 

[Streak]

No one can tell at the moment if Dimma can coach or not. Our team is simply to shambolic for anyone to really know.

Hardwick applied a torch to the list, which virutally everyone said had to be done. What we have now is the result of that policy. People can argue that Dimma has made a tough, hard, brave decision to go down the path he has.

But in reality, it was an easy decision to make and for our coach a no brainer and a no lose situation. Slash the list, then have coverage in the excuse that we have a young developing side, or keep working with what we had, and achieve mediocrity and a 3 year tenure max.

The point is, Dimma is not and cannot be assessed as a typical coach right now. Pure and simple. What the club needs more than a good coach is a man who can ensure that the pain we are going through right now is a positive step in the right direction.

I pray that is what we have, because if it isn't then we are in massive trouble.

 

[Streak]

Players gone backwards from last year, noticable Rance he is now hopless

Have the players gone backwards, or has Dimma actually exposed them. I agree with most of your comments, but I'd like to think that if some plaers like Rance look to have regressed, it might be because Dimma has come in with a blueprint that is designed to weed out flaws in our list now rather than later on.

 

[tigerinthetank2]

Well lets sack him after a year and start rebuilding all over again. There's a theory, we would continually be where we are now. Sometimes you just have to back your man. The job at RFC isn't a quick fix for any coach. The list he has started with is probably thepoorest on record for any coach commencing a career, outside the one KB had in the late 80's early 90's.

With any new coach, new playing structure and turnover of personnel there will be adjustments for everybody players as well. So obviously some players will flourish and some wont. Just the nature of the business.

And in 3 years time we will sack another coach as we made the wrong decision in the place, same as Wallace :

 

[Kahuna]

Not getting the opportunity to see the Tiges live in action very often, last weeks game against Fremantle was the first time in a long time I've seen any type of system being played. We have a young list with developing players and still a number of players to be cut from the club over the next couple of years. Unlike Wallace's tenure I felt the players were playing for the club rather than for Wallace's career. Yes we'll get smashed every week, but unlike previous years I believe Hardwick has us on the right course. Only time will tell, but at this stage the actions and intent reflect a way forward.

Cant beleive all the angst from some. Blind Freddy can see what is hppening at RFC. Hardwick is spot on in what he is doing and it will take at least three years. Thats the time you need to turnover a full list of 44 for a young list of between 18 and 28 yo players getting 50 to 100 games expereince under their belt.

You can only clear so much deadwood a year. Dimma has done a third in his first year, will do so again in the two years and commencing in 2013 and probably not before, we will have a list of 23 to 28 yo's with the 100 games expereince to make us competitive once more. More importanly a third of that list should be younger kids coming through, this time hopefully with better draft picks and selections that will address deficiences such as we have currently in the ruck and key forwards.

As soon as Richo retired we were in trouble this year. No key forward, the loss of our best contested mark, and most dangerous player and our most obvious target with nobody to replace him.

I hope the RFC committee, coaches and supporters have the patience of Jobe cos we are in for a rough ride for 2 more years IMO. In that time though we will see the emergence of the next Richmond finals team. Tough ask as we have endured so much already. But we have to bottom right out before the "J Curve" kicks in.

I truly beleive we have a quality coach here who is making some incredibly tough decisions despite their potential ramifications in the short term. An example of this was his decision to rest Dustin Martin and Trent Cochin today. He could have easily picked them but is looking out for their long term development and welfare.

My hope is we dont chew him up before he finishes the job.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Worst records of rookie coaches

Coach Cb Year P W L D Mgn Pcnt Fnish
-------------------------------------------------
Michael Nunan Fi 1996 6 - 6 - 390 52.3 16/16
Damien Hardwick Ri 2010 6 - 6 - 385 49.1
Dean Bailey Me 2008 6 - 6 - 362 54.3 16/16
Tom Arklay Ge 1944 6 - 6 - 302 57.0 12/12
Fred Froude St 1948 6 - 6 - 270 58.7 12/12
Graeme John Sy 1973 6 - 6 - 234 67.6 12/12
Royce Hart WB 1980 6 - 6 - 213 72.7 10/12
Bert Sutton Ha 1928 6 - 6 - 210 63.9 12/12
Alan Killigrew St 1956 6 - 6 - 192 61.7 11/12
Victor Upton-Brown Un 1913 6 - 6 - 174 63.4 10/10
Damian Drum Fr 1999 6 - 6 - 160 75.6 15/16
Col Williamson St 1952 6 - 6 - 156 72.4 12/12

 

[Lidsand]

And in 3 years time we will sack another coach as we made the wrong decision in the place, same as Wallace :

ratten cant coach but look at carlton, they are competitive only because they bottomed out and took their medicine

worst case scenario, we find out dimma cant coach our list will be in better shape in 3 years then it has ever been in the last 15 years

 

[Tigers of Old]

Have the players gone backwards, or has Dimma actually exposed them.

I like the way you think Streaker.
Dimma's chucked a few in at the deep end early to see what they're capable of.
He's tried some in roles they are unaccustomed too and tried others in roles that they're incapable of but it's all part of the process of him getting a handle on the list in a hurry.
Many have been found to fall short, others will be better off for the experience.
Results at this point really aren't important. It's almost as if many here have forgotten we finished 15th just last year.
What's important is that we expose our weaknesses and astutely target where we need improvement, which unfortunately at this point is pretty much everywhere. :-\

 

[Phar Ace]

Worst records of rookie coaches

Coach Cb Year P W L D Mgn Pcnt Fnish
-------------------------------------------------
Michael Nunan Fi 1996 6 - 6 - 390 52.3 16/16
Damien Hardwick Ri 2010 6 - 6 - 385 49.1
Dean Bailey Me 2008 6 - 6 - 362 54.3 16/16
Tom Arklay Ge 1944 6 - 6 - 302 57.0 12/12
Fred Froude St 1948 6 - 6 - 270 58.7 12/12
Graeme John Sy 1973 6 - 6 - 234 67.6 12/12
Royce Hart WB 1980 6 - 6 - 213 72.7 10/12
Bert Sutton Ha 1928 6 - 6 - 210 63.9 12/12
Alan Killigrew St 1956 6 - 6 - 192 61.7 11/12
Victor Upton-Brown Un 1913 6 - 6 - 174 63.4 10/10
Damian Drum Fr 1999 6 - 6 - 160 75.6 15/16
Col Williamson St 1952 6 - 6 - 156 72.4 12/12

Wow, good effort LTRTR - in good company there ;D

No one can tell at the moment if Dimma can coach or not. Our team is simply to shambolic for anyone to really know.

Hardwick applied a torch to the list, which virutally everyone said had to be done. What we have now is the result of that policy. People can argue that Dimma has made a tough, hard, brave decision to go down the path he has.

But in reality, it was an easy decision to make and for our coach a no brainer and a no lose situation. Slash the list, then have coverage in the excuse that we have a young developing side, or keep working with what we had, and achieve mediocrity and a 3 year tenure max.

The point is, Dimma is not and cannot be assessed as a typical coach right now. Pure and simple. What the club needs more than a good coach is a man who can ensure that the pain we are going through right now is a positive step in the right direction.

I pray that is what we have, because if it isn't then we are in massive trouble.

Good post Streaker.

To be honest, i wouldn't be in the slightest bit worried if it were not for the timing of the GC and GWS. But that alone puts us back another three years minimum unless we get everything near perfect - great strike rate of draftees with a couple becoming champions in the making, no lost players under concessions to GC and GWS, and free agency doesn't adversly effect us.

I just don't think we will be that good or lucky - but footy is a funny business. I think we might face a merger before we face a finals run - I don't want it - but geez we are going to have to be good.

 

[zippadeee]

cant see him ever being under pressure from the board, because they're all the same page.
March, Gale, Cameron, Hardwick are all our future, These 4 guys are either going to be remembered as the "saviours" or the "undertakers"
I really do have faith with there system, i just hope the players (deledio, Martin, cotchin) hang in there, because we are a great club, and the events of the last 5 years have been shameful...
in the words of i of my favourite coaches lets all "stickfat"

 

[Matiger]

Worst records of rookie coaches

Coach Cb Year P W L D Mgn Pcnt Fnish
-------------------------------------------------
Michael Nunan Fi 1996 6 - 6 - 390 52.3 16/16
Damien Hardwick Ri 2010 6 - 6 - 385 49.1
Dean Bailey Me 2008 6 - 6 - 362 54.3 16/16
Tom Arklay Ge 1944 6 - 6 - 302 57.0 12/12
Fred Froude St 1948 6 - 6 - 270 58.7 12/12
Graeme John Sy 1973 6 - 6 - 234 67.6 12/12
Royce Hart WB 1980 6 - 6 - 213 72.7 10/12
Bert Sutton Ha 1928 6 - 6 - 210 63.9 12/12
Alan Killigrew St 1956 6 - 6 - 192 61.7 11/12
Victor Upton-Brown Un 1913 6 - 6 - 174 63.4 10/10
Damian Drum Fr 1999 6 - 6 - 160 75.6 15/16
Col Williamson St 1952 6 - 6 - 156 72.4 12/12

That is nothing. I am fairly confident that we will go 0-22 this year. Maybe we could sneak a win but at the moment we just dont know how. Fremantle game the case in point.

And I couldnt be happier to be honest. We had no choice. And there is alot more to come with maybe another 8-10 delistings this year. We could be a similar win loss ratio next year also. As usual our timing couldnt be worse with the new teams but Dimma has to play the cards he's dealt. NO SHORTCUTS. And that is what he is doing.

FWIW I think there is many years of pain to come. It will be 5/6 years before we are competitive given our list structure. And that becomes an issue at this club because we are starved for success and the fans put pressure on the administration to become competitive. I hope they hold their nerve and dont take one shortcut.