Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

But we don't have control over where we get energy. I get energy from our solar panels and our energy company is the old Snowy Hydro. Does that mean all the energy I use is from renewables? Doubt it. Apart from anything else the renewable electrons are not separate from the fossil fuel electrons.

As I said above, industrial economies were built on the back of a massive expansion in energy. Not many people understand this, but the reality is we can no longer continue to burn lots of fossil fuel without screwing up the climate. Pity we didn't start the transition earlier.

We still live in a world which thinks like this:

Attenbobough.jpg

DS
 
But we don't have control over where we get energy. I get energy from our solar panels and our energy company is the old Snowy Hydro. Does that mean all the energy I use is from renewables? Doubt it. Apart from anything else the renewable electrons are not separate from the fossil fuel electrons.

As I said above, industrial economies were built on the back of a massive expansion in energy. Not many people understand this, but the reality is we can no longer continue to burn lots of fossil fuel without screwing up the climate. Pity we didn't start the transition earlier.

We still live in a world which thinks like this:

View attachment 24299

DS
So the only cure is to cut the population by 75% or go back to living in caves. Down the Rabbitborough we go coz no-one's accepting either of those two options.
 
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Ideology and lack of weight of engineering voices in parliament also causing us to increase emissions via dumb transition planning.

Europe burnt coal/wood when gas stopped.

Nz burning/importing coal as banned gas exploration and development.

Victoria quickly will do the same thing. We already see coal station lives getting extended.

Getting votes overwhelms long term sensibility. Some countries with high renewables pushed gas to be the 5-10% backup because the weren’t dumb.

I guess as a Chem eng at my core who thinks about systems / balances I find it incredibly frustrating.

Best investment gov could make would be demand side interventions. Anything that makes efficiency just helps everything - better quality housing, insulation etc heat pumps for gas heating is good but only if we don’t do coal at the same time otherwise we make it worse.

Like the cheap public transport too being done in other states. Will increase demand so hopefully not a perverse incentive and take more cars off the road than buses etc it adds.

Laws that mean products have to be repairable / can’t be obsoleted too easily also critical to reduce that throw away the old phone cycle. If that means they cost more than so be it.
 
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Ideology and lack of weight of engineering voices in parliament also causing us to increase emissions via dumb transition planning.

Europe burnt coal/wood when gas stopped.

Nz burning/importing coal as banned gas exploration and development.

Victoria quickly will do the same thing. We already see coal station lives getting extended.

Getting votes overwhelms long term sensibility. Some countries with high renewables pushed gas to be the 5-10% backup because the weren’t dumb.

I guess as a Chem eng at my core who thinks about systems / balances I find it incredibly frustrating.

Best investment gov could make would be demand side interventions. Anything that makes efficiency just helps everything - better quality housing, insulation etc heat pumps for gas heating is good but only if we don’t do coal at the same time otherwise we make it worse.

Like the cheap public transport too being done in other states. Will increase demand so hopefully not a perverse incentive and take more cars off the road than buses etc it adds.

Laws that mean products have to be repairable / can’t be obsoleted too easily also critical to reduce that throw away the old phone cycle. If that means they cost more than so be it.
All true.
No comprehensive planning. States and Commonwealth doing piecemeal installations. Partial solutions for votes.
The dopey bastards can’t even be honest enough and admit they have no plan.
All that Bowen has is the usual rhetoric…reel in emissions by 2030, 2035, 2050. How? Turn everything off.
Fail to plan, you plan to fail.
It’s not a matter of plonking a solar farm hither and yon, or whacking up some wind turbines

Backup supply? Reliability? Baseload/peakload? Grid Interchangeability? Where is it? When? How?
 

Australia is on the verge of a power price crisis driven by self-interest and empty promises from state and federal politicians


The “public policy disaster” the Premier warned of this week is actually far, far worse than he says, writes Paul Starick.


Paul Starick | The Advertiser


Skyrocketing power prices and the ongoing risk of blackouts in the national electricity grid are more than just the “real public policy disaster” described by Premier Peter Malinauskas.

It’s far, far worse.

The crisis is a catastrophic betrayal of the Australian people by the ruling class – the political leaders who are supposed to represent the public interest.


Households and businesses are slammed harder and harder, paying exorbitant prices for electricity supplies that cannot even be guaranteed.

The blame must be sheeted home to state and federal politicians.

They have wasted billions of dollars and spent more than 25 years fighting in a quagmire of naked political self-interest, blind ideology, stifled innovation, stupendous indecisiveness and misguided decisions.

Lofty promises of cheaper, more reliable electricity have melted like the snowflakes who have made them.

Instead, there is a real sense of crisis – a crunch point has been reached beyond which households and businesses can go no further. It’s high time politicians started acting in the public interest, rather than their own.

Look at the past few days. On Tuesday, The Advertiser revealed iconic South Australian firm Nippy’s power bill had doubled within a year, to $109,580.10in July.

On Thursday, authorities warned blackout risks were intensifying in South Australia for the next three years and emergency reserves were being sought across three states to ensure supply.

This triggered a warning that there was “a lot of work to do to keep the lights on” from Ai Group chief executive Innes Willox, who represents more than 60,000 businesses employing more than one million staff.

He argued the economy would grind to a halt if Australia failed to replace old coal plants before they fell over.

In diagnosing the cause of this catastrophe, Mr Malinauskas was partially correct at The Advertiser’s Bush Summit on Wednesday. He lashed the policy failure of “an energy-rich country that exports powerto the rest of the world paying a higher domestic power price than the very countries that we are exporting our own energy to”.

“If you ask me, I think that the creation of the National Electricity Market (in 1998), combined with the privatisation of the electricity market, has been a real public policy disaster,” Mr Malinauskas said.

The 1999 privatisation of state-owned electricity utility ETSA remains deeply unpopular.

Back then, there were promises that SA householders would be big winners from competition from 2003, when numerous retailers would compete and drive down prices – just as had happened with mobile phones.

Instead, an influx of renewable energy – household solar panels, wind farms and batteries – has been bolted on to a system designed last century.

At the same time, politicians have been arguing endlessly over energy and climate change, resulting in the farcical situation described by Mr Malinauskas – that overseas countries pay less for the energy we export.

Seven years later, in 2014, the-then shop assistants’ union leader Peter Malinauskas called for a mature debate and said: “I believe climate change is a real challenge we need to face up to, and nuclear energy can be a safe source of base load power, with zero carbon emissions.”

A decade on, Labor unilaterally declares nuclear as uneconomicdespite refusing to test the market by removing an atomic energy ban.

Yet it condemns the Coalition for deterring investment by fuelling ongoing uncertainty.

Conversely, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton in June unveiled plans for seven nuclear power plants, arguing this would drive down electricity prices. But he said the cost had not been calculated.

Until a proper costings are done, this is just another of a string of empty promises.

In an energy-rich country, the last thing we should be arguing about is power prices and supply.

But don’t hold your breath for a solution any time soon.


This isn’t an argument for or against nuclear power. It just goes to show what I’ve been saying about any lack of planning from Sate or a Federal governments with planning, design and construction for replacement of coal fired generators.
Too many partisan politicking affecting everyday Australians lives, their well-being, livliehoods and industries. Al facets of out daily living.
They’re a disgrace pandering to the Greens, to other lobbying groups just to cling to power. Meanwhile we pay the price.
 
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Of course, if we had kept electricity on public hands we might have been able to actually plan the transition.

The problem is that we have had deniers scoring political points which has slowed any transition. We have carping from the LNP the minute someone suggests building renewables, FFS they now claim to give a *smile* about whales.

This could have, and should have, been started decades ago, but too much political point scoring has meant no-one has the guts to really plan out the major transition needed. This is not surprising given the opportunism on this issue and the Murdoch media beat ups.

In terms of recycling, we need to just mandate that goods are built to recycle. Sure, it will mean that your phone might be a couple of mm thicker, or you need to upgrade less often. But the way they are made now means it is so hard to retrieve the rare earths inside. Everything needs to be built to last, built to enable re-use, built to be repairable, built to be upgradeable and built to facilitate recycling.

DS
 
Of course, if we had kept electricity on public hands we might have been able to actually plan the transition.

The problem is that we have had deniers scoring political points which has slowed any transition. We have carping from the LNP the minute someone suggests building renewables, FFS they now claim to give a *smile* about whales.

This could have, and should have, been started decades ago, but too much political point scoring has meant no-one has the guts to really plan out the major transition needed. This is not surprising given the opportunism on this issue and the Murdoch media beat ups.

In terms of recycling, we need to just mandate that goods are built to recycle. Sure, it will mean that your phone might be a couple of mm thicker, or you need to upgrade less often. But the way they are made now means it is so hard to retrieve the rare earths inside. Everything needs to be built to last, built to enable re-use, built to be repairable, built to be upgradeable and built to facilitate recycling.

DS
I agree in the main. I believe most agree it’s been politicised.
Even in your post you’re guilty of the same. Blaming the LNP, Murdoch. All parties are culpable. It’s mainly when there are votes connected that anything started to get done. Piecemeal.

It should have been about education right from the start. Not scaremongering or the heavy handedness which prevails. People Jack up straight away when they think they’re being forced into something without any meaningful proof. Whether they’re deniers or acceptors, more could have and should have been done. Having the likes of Al Gore in his mega mansion with all the lights turned on or little Greta Thumderbox screaming at people lost a fair amount of legitimacy imo.

One thing we don’t do well is have a longe term plan. Well our long term plans only last for a couple of years. Usually. Countries like China plan decades and generations ahead.
No real or even a half baked plan for alternatives. No National or state based initiatives. All piecemeal, ad hoc.
No National grid, no national interchangeability, no connectivity, no backup, no plan for urban or rural needs or predicting future growth.
No plan for industry needs or development. No plan for 24/7 reliable power coverage. No forecast for needs, costs or pricing.
Net zero, Bowen has no *smile* idea.
 
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No plans?

No problem.

We're the Lucky Country!

The sad thing is that, while the above is facetious, it does reflect the way this country has been for many decades. We have never really taken a long term view but something always turns up. I figured eventually the luck would run out, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Just watch, we will plan nothing, we will do nothing and then the renewables revolution will happen and, lo and behold, we got plenty of spare land, plenty of sun, plenty of wind and we'll reap the rewards.

Imagine how we could have gone if we actually planned.

I suppose no-one can be bothered.

DS
 
No plans?

No problem.

We're the Lucky Country!

The sad thing is that, while the above is facetious, it does reflect the way this country has been for many decades. We have never really taken a long term view but something always turns up. I figured eventually the luck would run out, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Just watch, we will plan nothing, we will do nothing and then the renewables revolution will happen and, lo and behold, we got plenty of spare land, plenty of sun, plenty of wind and we'll reap the rewards.

Imagine how we could have gone if we actually planned.

I suppose no-one can be bothered.

DS


She'll be right mate ;)
 
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No plans?

No problem.

We're the Lucky Country!

The sad thing is that, while the above is facetious, it does reflect the way this country has been for many decades. We have never really taken a long term view but something always turns up. I figured eventually the luck would run out, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Just watch, we will plan nothing, we will do nothing and then the renewables revolution will happen and, lo and behold, we got plenty of spare land, plenty of sun, plenty of wind and we'll reap the rewards.

Imagine how we could have gone if we actually planned.

I suppose no-one can be bothered.

DS
What? Interrupt beer o'clock? But that's when we do our best planning.
 
No plans?

No problem.

We're the Lucky Country!

The sad thing is that, while the above is facetious, it does reflect the way this country has been for many decades. We have never really taken a long term view but something always turns up. I figured eventually the luck would run out, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Just watch, we will plan nothing, we will do nothing and then the renewables revolution will happen and, lo and behold, we got plenty of spare land, plenty of sun, plenty of wind and we'll reap the rewards.

Imagine how we could have gone if we actually planned.

I suppose no-one can be bothered.

DS
I dont think it is that either party "cant be bothered", but our political system, our media and our voters dont suit a government (or an opposition) actually looking forward.
 
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